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24th May
Eight EEC nations vote to continue trade boycott of Argentina.
The fires on HMS Antelope continue to burn through the night. Shortly after dawn another major explosion occurs, the ship's back breaks and she sinks with her bows and stern sticking out of the water. Her survivors are transferred to the Norland during the day.
HMS Antelope continues to burn - note the main mast broken when hit by an attacking A4.
The morning is clear in San Carlos Water and loading continued.
HMS Coventry and Broadsword take up a 'missile trap' station off Pebble Island.
The Argentine Air Force Commanders change their patterns of approach which allows them to benefit from the surrounding terrain
.
The first wave of A-4Bs scores three direct hits on the Sir Galahad, Sir Lancelot and Sir Bedivere which are positioned off Ajax Bay and near-misses Fort Austin.
Sir Galahad and Sir Lancelot have been hit by two 1,000lb bombs which have failed to explode, but started fires and the Sir Bedivere by a bomb which glanced off the crane forward of the bridge, through a bulwark and on into the sea where it explodes.
A wave of Daggers follows but the ships are now alert to the danger and engage the aircraft with Seacat, Rapier and automatic weapons.
The Daggers strafe HMS Fearless and the Sir Galahad and another bomb hits Sir Lancelot but once again this fails to explode.
Another Dagger division has been tracked by HMS Coventry and [/i]Broadsword[/i] and a Sea Harrier CAP has been vectored to intercept. Three of the Daggers were shot down with Teniente C. J. Castillo losing his life.
Three A-4Cs make an attack on San Carlos Water at about the same time. They too run into fierce gun and missile fire.
The weather deteriorates in the afternoon giving the ships their first natural cover.
The fires on Sir Galahad and Sir Lancelot have been put out and Sir Galahad's bomb is removed during the night. Sir Lancelot's proves more difficult and has to be cut free before it can be removed.
The Carrier Battle Group launches additional aircraft on CAP to guard against any possible dusk strikes.
Two Skyhawks make a run at 40 Commando's position in San Carlos Settlement. Parachute-retarded bombs fell on target, but the combination of entrenchments and soft peat resulted in only two fatalities, and three wounded.
More successful was a three-Skyhawk raid on the Brigade Maintainance Area, killing six, wounding 27 and starting a fire in 45 Commando's main ammunition dump with 12 bombs. The initial plan had been for the British to keep their main logistical assets afloat. The attacks of the previous days had caused them to reconsider their strategy as supplies aren't much use on a sunken ship, and set up land bases instead. Now one of them was exploding throughout the night.
By now San Carlos Water had been christened Bomb Alley by the British, and Death Valley by the Argentinians. There is still much speculation as to what would have happened had the Argentinians used their Mirage III fighters to escort the bombers in, as most of the kills were scored by Harriers in air combat. Instead, they were kept in defence of the Argentine Mainland: The Black Buck Vulcan bombing raids had put them in fear of raids on their mainland bases, or worse, Buenos Aires.
The submarine ARA San Luis, having a couple of days previously given up on the concept of trying to sink British ships with equipment that doesn't want to work, puts into port in Argentina in an attempt to repair. She will take no further part in the war.
In the meantime, the land forces remain dug in in their positions in the hills around San Carlos. They do some local patrolling, and expend prodigious ammunition at the aircraft flying overhead (to the dismay of the supply types), but frustration was building up both amongst the men, who were keen to get on with things, and the Royal Navy, which was taking a pasting, while the Army/Marines were just sitting there.
In actuality, the land forces were not yet in a position to move forward, they simply didn't have all the required supplies ready.
Sd.
Eight EEC nations vote to continue trade boycott of Argentina.
The fires on HMS Antelope continue to burn through the night. Shortly after dawn another major explosion occurs, the ship's back breaks and she sinks with her bows and stern sticking out of the water. Her survivors are transferred to the Norland during the day.
HMS Antelope continues to burn - note the main mast broken when hit by an attacking A4.
The morning is clear in San Carlos Water and loading continued.
HMS Coventry and Broadsword take up a 'missile trap' station off Pebble Island.
The Argentine Air Force Commanders change their patterns of approach which allows them to benefit from the surrounding terrain
.
The first wave of A-4Bs scores three direct hits on the Sir Galahad, Sir Lancelot and Sir Bedivere which are positioned off Ajax Bay and near-misses Fort Austin.
Sir Galahad and Sir Lancelot have been hit by two 1,000lb bombs which have failed to explode, but started fires and the Sir Bedivere by a bomb which glanced off the crane forward of the bridge, through a bulwark and on into the sea where it explodes.
A wave of Daggers follows but the ships are now alert to the danger and engage the aircraft with Seacat, Rapier and automatic weapons.
The Daggers strafe HMS Fearless and the Sir Galahad and another bomb hits Sir Lancelot but once again this fails to explode.
Another Dagger division has been tracked by HMS Coventry and [/i]Broadsword[/i] and a Sea Harrier CAP has been vectored to intercept. Three of the Daggers were shot down with Teniente C. J. Castillo losing his life.
Three A-4Cs make an attack on San Carlos Water at about the same time. They too run into fierce gun and missile fire.
The weather deteriorates in the afternoon giving the ships their first natural cover.
The fires on Sir Galahad and Sir Lancelot have been put out and Sir Galahad's bomb is removed during the night. Sir Lancelot's proves more difficult and has to be cut free before it can be removed.
The Carrier Battle Group launches additional aircraft on CAP to guard against any possible dusk strikes.
Two Skyhawks make a run at 40 Commando's position in San Carlos Settlement. Parachute-retarded bombs fell on target, but the combination of entrenchments and soft peat resulted in only two fatalities, and three wounded.
More successful was a three-Skyhawk raid on the Brigade Maintainance Area, killing six, wounding 27 and starting a fire in 45 Commando's main ammunition dump with 12 bombs. The initial plan had been for the British to keep their main logistical assets afloat. The attacks of the previous days had caused them to reconsider their strategy as supplies aren't much use on a sunken ship, and set up land bases instead. Now one of them was exploding throughout the night.
By now San Carlos Water had been christened Bomb Alley by the British, and Death Valley by the Argentinians. There is still much speculation as to what would have happened had the Argentinians used their Mirage III fighters to escort the bombers in, as most of the kills were scored by Harriers in air combat. Instead, they were kept in defence of the Argentine Mainland: The Black Buck Vulcan bombing raids had put them in fear of raids on their mainland bases, or worse, Buenos Aires.
The submarine ARA San Luis, having a couple of days previously given up on the concept of trying to sink British ships with equipment that doesn't want to work, puts into port in Argentina in an attempt to repair. She will take no further part in the war.
In the meantime, the land forces remain dug in in their positions in the hills around San Carlos. They do some local patrolling, and expend prodigious ammunition at the aircraft flying overhead (to the dismay of the supply types), but frustration was building up both amongst the men, who were keen to get on with things, and the Royal Navy, which was taking a pasting, while the Army/Marines were just sitting there.
In actuality, the land forces were not yet in a position to move forward, they simply didn't have all the required supplies ready.
Sd.
From reading this it appears almost every Argentine aircraft that attacks gets shot down, was it really like shooting fish in a barrel? I am assuming every downing guarantees the pilot is also killed.
It also appears that their bombs are incredibly unreliable, even the Exocet that hit the Sheffield didn't explode. Why are they so unreliable?
It also appears that their bombs are incredibly unreliable, even the Exocet that hit the Sheffield didn't explode. Why are they so unreliable?
SkinnyPete said:
From reading this it appears almost every Argentine aircraft that attacks gets shot down, was it really like shooting fish in a barrel? I am assuming every downing guarantees the pilot is also killed.
It also appears that their bombs are incredibly unreliable, even the Exocet that hit the Sheffield didn't explode. Why are they so unreliable?
The Argentine Air Force and Naval Air Arm numbered about 240 - not all useable, and many remained on the mainland to guard against possible Chilean aggression.It also appears that their bombs are incredibly unreliable, even the Exocet that hit the Sheffield didn't explode. Why are they so unreliable?
A lot of the bombs were fitted with fuses which did not arm due to the low level they were released at - the BBC reported the number of unexploded bombs - the Argentines altered the fusing with devestating effect.
SD.
Mannginger said:
Apologies if I've missed it but wasn't Gordy Batt's accident on 23rd May as well?
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=1...http://www.ukserials.com/losses-1982.htm
Fat Fairy said:
WRT The BBC. Even as a teenager, I read some of their statements thinking 'have you really just said that?'
How many lives did the BBC cost?
FF
I am as quick to blame the BBC for their failures as the next PHer but have to say I am surprised the Argies didn't work it out after the first few failed to explode. It must have been obvious to them that they were not when it was taking secondary incidents to actually have any really impact.How many lives did the BBC cost?
FF
I seem to remember about this time in the war the Argentine navy aircraft had relocated south after their aircraft carrier had holled up in port, and they knew they needed to use retarded bombs at low level unlike the airforce that were using normal bombs that didn't have time to arm before impact. Mind you I can remember thinking the BBC should stop mentioning the fact bombs weren't going off, and we shouldn't forget the incredibly brave bomb disposal men who risked life and limb daily.
You don't use retard bombs at low level to give them time to arm, you use retard bombs (generally against ground targets) to give the attacking a/c time to get clear of the target before the weapon detonates when doing a Laydown (ie level) Attack. Ie you use retard bombs to stop them swatting the dropping a/c out of the sky.
There has been much made of the Argentine bombs not arming properly because they were dropped at low level, yet this was not the case, the bombs were arming - a number of ATOs when entering ships that had been bombed found the bombs had armed but failed to detonate.
While the arming system worked as advertised (essentially a wee propellor on the front of the bomb that spins in the airflow and removes the safety interlock(s)), it was the fuzes/detonators that were at fault. The bombs would have failed to detonate no matter what height they had been dropped from.
There has been much made of the Argentine bombs not arming properly because they were dropped at low level, yet this was not the case, the bombs were arming - a number of ATOs when entering ships that had been bombed found the bombs had armed but failed to detonate.
While the arming system worked as advertised (essentially a wee propellor on the front of the bomb that spins in the airflow and removes the safety interlock(s)), it was the fuzes/detonators that were at fault. The bombs would have failed to detonate no matter what height they had been dropped from.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Wednesday 24th May 21:33
shed driver said:
By now San Carlos Water had been christened Bomb Alley by the British, and Death Valley by the Argentinians. There is still much speculation as to what would have happened had the Argentinians used their Mirage III fighters to escort the bombers in, as most of the kills were scored by Harriers in air combat. Instead, they were kept in defence of the Argentine Mainland: The Black Buck Vulcan bombing raids had put them in fear of raids on their mainland bases, or worse, Buenos Aires.
Tell us more about this.So the bombers were not very good at air to air combat and got picked off by Harriers, but if the Argies deployed both bombers and Mirages at the same time then the Harriers would be kept occupied while the bombers engaged the ships?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
You don't use retard bombs at low level to give them time to arm, you use retard bombs (generally against ground targets) to give the attacking a/c time to get clear of the target before the weapon detonates when doing a Laydown (ie level) Attack. Ie you use retard bombs to stop them swatting the dropping a/c out of the sky.
There has been much made of the Argentine bombs not arming properly because they were dropped at low level, yet this was not the case, the bombs were arming - a number of ATOs when entering ships that had been bombed found the bombs had armed but failed to detonate.
While the arming system worked as advertised (essentially a wee propellor on the front of the bomb that spins in the airflow and removes the safety interlock(s)), it was the fuzes/detonators that were at fault. The bombs would have failed to detonate no matter what height they had been dropped from.
I didn't know that Thanks for the info I've learnt something new! And as for the fact the bombs had armed wow even braver bomb disposal Men! There has been much made of the Argentine bombs not arming properly because they were dropped at low level, yet this was not the case, the bombs were arming - a number of ATOs when entering ships that had been bombed found the bombs had armed but failed to detonate.
While the arming system worked as advertised (essentially a wee propellor on the front of the bomb that spins in the airflow and removes the safety interlock(s)), it was the fuzes/detonators that were at fault. The bombs would have failed to detonate no matter what height they had been dropped from.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Wednesday 24th May 21:33
25th May
Argentina’s National Day dawns. Its significance is not lost on the Task Force.
UN Security Council debate ended.
HMS Glasgow finally gives up trying to fight the fight, and departs for the UK.
HMS Bristol, a 7,000 ton Type 82 destroyer, leads a group of ships as they arrive in the Task Force's Area of Operations. The sole ship built of a class of four planned, it lost its purpose when the Queen Elizabeth class of aircraft carriers it was supposed to escort was cancelled in 1966. It's a cruiser in all but name.
With it are HMS Cardiff, another Type 42, Penelope and Minerva, Leanders like Argonaut, HMS Andromeda, a Sea Wolf Leander, and HMS Active and Avenger, both Type 21s. To quote Woodward "From where I sat, they were more than welcome, since at this stage we were losing warships at a fairly high rate"
Two tankers also show up, Olna and Bayleaf, and a sister ship to Fort Austin, Fort Grange.
11:30 A formation of Daggers is detected on the run-in to Falkland Sound by Coventry, which in company of Broadsword, constituted the “Type 64” frigate.
One is shot down by a Sea Dart missile, the others conduct their run, but miss.
14:30 – approx.. Four A-4s looping around over East Falkland come at the fleet, and come within range of Yarmouth. Their SeaCat kills one, the other three aircraft don't hit anything.
On the way out, they come into range of Coventry, whose Sea Dart gets another kill.
The destroyer intercepts a signal, and takes it as a bit of a complement that the Argentinians thought it would take six Skyhawks to 'Get that Type-42 out there'
17:00. Six Skyhawks of 5th Air Brigade launch, but due to problems refuelling, only four continued to the attack. Flying a little higher than normal, to save fuel for the attack run, they were picked up early by the British, about a hundred miles out. Harriers were sent to intercept, but the Argentinians split into pairs, and went low. By the time they showed up again, it was too late to vector the Harriers in.
When they appeared again, they were too low for Coventry's long-distance radar to pick them out. The first pair made for Broadsword, whose radar was much more suited to close-range work.
Unfortunately, the two A-4s were so close together that Broadsword's system couldn't quite figure out if it was trying to engage one target or two, decided it wasn't worth what it was being paid to try to figure it out, and switched itself off. Early Type 22s have no main gun, so it's down to autocannon, machineguns and rifle fire.
Of the four thousand-pound bombs, only one struck the ship after bouncing off the sea, entering starboard aft without exploding, punching out to the flight deck, through the helicopter (Destroying it, of course), and into the sea.
More when I finish work at 21:00.
SD.
Argentina’s National Day dawns. Its significance is not lost on the Task Force.
UN Security Council debate ended.
HMS Glasgow finally gives up trying to fight the fight, and departs for the UK.
HMS Bristol, a 7,000 ton Type 82 destroyer, leads a group of ships as they arrive in the Task Force's Area of Operations. The sole ship built of a class of four planned, it lost its purpose when the Queen Elizabeth class of aircraft carriers it was supposed to escort was cancelled in 1966. It's a cruiser in all but name.
With it are HMS Cardiff, another Type 42, Penelope and Minerva, Leanders like Argonaut, HMS Andromeda, a Sea Wolf Leander, and HMS Active and Avenger, both Type 21s. To quote Woodward "From where I sat, they were more than welcome, since at this stage we were losing warships at a fairly high rate"
Two tankers also show up, Olna and Bayleaf, and a sister ship to Fort Austin, Fort Grange.
11:30 A formation of Daggers is detected on the run-in to Falkland Sound by Coventry, which in company of Broadsword, constituted the “Type 64” frigate.
One is shot down by a Sea Dart missile, the others conduct their run, but miss.
14:30 – approx.. Four A-4s looping around over East Falkland come at the fleet, and come within range of Yarmouth. Their SeaCat kills one, the other three aircraft don't hit anything.
On the way out, they come into range of Coventry, whose Sea Dart gets another kill.
The destroyer intercepts a signal, and takes it as a bit of a complement that the Argentinians thought it would take six Skyhawks to 'Get that Type-42 out there'
17:00. Six Skyhawks of 5th Air Brigade launch, but due to problems refuelling, only four continued to the attack. Flying a little higher than normal, to save fuel for the attack run, they were picked up early by the British, about a hundred miles out. Harriers were sent to intercept, but the Argentinians split into pairs, and went low. By the time they showed up again, it was too late to vector the Harriers in.
When they appeared again, they were too low for Coventry's long-distance radar to pick them out. The first pair made for Broadsword, whose radar was much more suited to close-range work.
Unfortunately, the two A-4s were so close together that Broadsword's system couldn't quite figure out if it was trying to engage one target or two, decided it wasn't worth what it was being paid to try to figure it out, and switched itself off. Early Type 22s have no main gun, so it's down to autocannon, machineguns and rifle fire.
Of the four thousand-pound bombs, only one struck the ship after bouncing off the sea, entering starboard aft without exploding, punching out to the flight deck, through the helicopter (Destroying it, of course), and into the sea.
More when I finish work at 21:00.
SD.
The more I read of this, the more I realise how much I'd missed the first time round. In my defence, as an 11yr old living in France at the time, it's hardly surprising I didn't get much exposure to it, but I really hadn't realised just how much of a "proper" war it was!
Prior to this thread, I suppose I'd thought of probably the Korean war as the last one where our Armed Forces were properly engaged in a fight against a significant opposing force, but clearly not the case.
Just for the sake of clarity, I'm not in any way attempting to belittle the contributions of service personnel deployed in NI, the Gulf Wars, Afghanistan or anywhere else subsequent to WW2 or the casualties incurred there, just differentiating those as being either part of a coalition with overwhelming technological superiority or not a war in the conventional sense. I'd somehow assumed that the Falklands was another conflict in which we had that overwhelming technological superiority, but clearly not the case from reading this.
Prior to this thread, I suppose I'd thought of probably the Korean war as the last one where our Armed Forces were properly engaged in a fight against a significant opposing force, but clearly not the case.
Just for the sake of clarity, I'm not in any way attempting to belittle the contributions of service personnel deployed in NI, the Gulf Wars, Afghanistan or anywhere else subsequent to WW2 or the casualties incurred there, just differentiating those as being either part of a coalition with overwhelming technological superiority or not a war in the conventional sense. I'd somehow assumed that the Falklands was another conflict in which we had that overwhelming technological superiority, but clearly not the case from reading this.
shed driver said:
Unfortunately, the two A-4s were so close together that Broadsword's system couldn't quite figure out if it was trying to engage one target or two, decided it wasn't worth what it was being paid to try to figure it out, and switched itself off.
I've heard this story before. I can just imagine the guy who wrote that piece of code hearing the news for the first time and sitting on his sofa thinking ".......oh, f
k it. Yeah, I know exactly why it's done that."shed driver said:
One is shot down by a Sea Dart missile, the others conduct their run, but miss.
Four A-4s looping around over East Falkland come at the fleet, and come within range of Yarmouth. Their SeaCat kills one, the other three aircraft don't hit anything.
On the way out, they come into range of Coventry, whose Sea Dart gets another kill.
Been trying to keep count but given up - quite a few aircraft lost now. Are their pilots ejecting or being lost too?Four A-4s looping around over East Falkland come at the fleet, and come within range of Yarmouth. Their SeaCat kills one, the other three aircraft don't hit anything.
On the way out, they come into range of Coventry, whose Sea Dart gets another kill.
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