Protecting wealth before marriage ?
Discussion
Amateurish said:
El stovey said:
Don't get divorced then.
No one gets married with the intention of divorcing. Loads of people also don't work hard enough or aren't willing to make compromises, or don't want to enter into an equal partnership.
All the time on here we read about blokes who have THEIR money and THEIR assets etc. How they do what they want and their wives get paid a salary or have to ask for money, in reality they don't have anything honestly shared. They worry about mitigating losses and don't trust women. They're the ones heading towards divorce,
Marriage is tough. People change, circumstances change. If you're worried about protecting your wealth, you're going to be influenced by that and make decisions and act based on that mindset. What kind of woman is going to want to be married to someone who doesn't want an equal partnership? If protecting wealth is a big thing for you, you probably shouldn't be getting married.
Cold said:
p1stonhead said:
God some of you lot are depressing!
Aren't the responses just based on real-life experiences? You can't really be surprised that some have a negative view of a process that has treated them negatively. 
You bloody well will not.offshoreeddy said:
If they are married for anything more than about a year and then decide to divorce, any decent solicitor she gets involved will probably get her half the estate. If there are kids involved, expect spousal maintenance for either fixed term or life, and child maintenance enforced through the courts (although this is only enforceable for a year, then it goes to the CMS if one party so decides) depending on how long the marriage was. As another poster has said, children will significantly complicate the issue and increase both the legal and ongoing costs. The courts will very much take a view that a standard of living has to be expected for both parties, and will divide assets accordingly.
When I got divorced three years ago, my ex wife got literally everything in the house, I had to pay the mortgage for three years whilst paying my own rent, give her a fairly significant sum of money, let her have the use of my company car (which I had to pay the tax on and maintain), and commit to spousal maintenance for the length of the term of the marriage, which was seven years. I also had court enforced child maintenance and had to agree to give 50% of the equity in the family home when it was sold. My solicitor reckoned I got off quite easy in comparison to other cases she had handled, but we did at least £30k in legal fees during the divorce between us, it took 18 months and was a bloody nightmare.
My advice? Do not get married. It is not worth it. It's a piece of paper. Commit to someone and live with them by all means, but keep your monies separate, make a note of what you've brought into the relationship (bills paid, things purchased) and try to keep money out of it as much as possible. If you argue over not getting married, "you don't love me enough to marry me" and all that crap, then why are you marrying someone who wants to emotionally blackmail you right from the start? I can tell you how that will end.
Nightmare.When I got divorced three years ago, my ex wife got literally everything in the house, I had to pay the mortgage for three years whilst paying my own rent, give her a fairly significant sum of money, let her have the use of my company car (which I had to pay the tax on and maintain), and commit to spousal maintenance for the length of the term of the marriage, which was seven years. I also had court enforced child maintenance and had to agree to give 50% of the equity in the family home when it was sold. My solicitor reckoned I got off quite easy in comparison to other cases she had handled, but we did at least £30k in legal fees during the divorce between us, it took 18 months and was a bloody nightmare.
My advice? Do not get married. It is not worth it. It's a piece of paper. Commit to someone and live with them by all means, but keep your monies separate, make a note of what you've brought into the relationship (bills paid, things purchased) and try to keep money out of it as much as possible. If you argue over not getting married, "you don't love me enough to marry me" and all that crap, then why are you marrying someone who wants to emotionally blackmail you right from the start? I can tell you how that will end.
El stovey said:
Amateurish said:
El stovey said:
Don't get divorced then.
No one gets married with the intention of divorcing. Loads of people also don't work hard enough or aren't willing to make compromises, or don't want to enter into an equal partnership.
All the time on here we read about blokes who have THEIR money and THEIR assets etc. How they do what they want and their wives get paid a salary or have to ask for money, in reality they don't have anything honestly shared. They worry about mitigating losses and don't trust women. They're the ones heading towards divorce,
Marriage is tough. People change, circumstances change. If you're worried about protecting your wealth, you're going to be influenced by that and make decisions and act based on that mindset. What kind of woman is going to want to be married to someone who doesn't want an equal partnership? If protecting wealth is a big thing for you, you probably shouldn't be getting married.
When me and Mrs ZS got married there was a bit of a gap in earnings and 'wealth' (she had some debt, I had a small amount of savings), but it never crossed my mind to start adding caveats or clauses.
If you feel the need to protect your assets then you need to have a think about whether you should be getting married. Too many people rush into it without thinking properly, which is why the divorce rate is as high as it is. One of the questions to honestly ask yourself is if overnight you lost all your money, would the person you're thinking of marrying still want to be with you?
El stovey said:
Yes but loads of people get married for the wrong reasons and to the wrong person. If someone is going into marriage worried about their stuff, that's not a good sign.
Loads of people also don't work hard enough or aren't willing to make compromises, or don't want to enter into an equal partnership.
All the time on here we read about blokes who have THEIR money and THEIR assets etc. How they do what they want and their wives get paid a salary or have to ask for money, in reality they don't have anything honestly shared. They worry about mitigating losses and don't trust women. They're the ones heading towards divorce,
Marriage is tough. People change, circumstances change. If you're worried about protecting your wealth, you're going to be influenced by that and make decisions and act based on that mindset. What kind of woman is going to want to be married to someone who doesn't want an equal partnership? If protecting wealth is a big thing for you, you probably shouldn't be getting married.
In the situation the OP describes, his friend absolutely should be thinking about the consequences of a relationship breakdown. When there is a such a massive disparity in wealth, the financial risk of marriage is huge. Loads of people also don't work hard enough or aren't willing to make compromises, or don't want to enter into an equal partnership.
All the time on here we read about blokes who have THEIR money and THEIR assets etc. How they do what they want and their wives get paid a salary or have to ask for money, in reality they don't have anything honestly shared. They worry about mitigating losses and don't trust women. They're the ones heading towards divorce,
Marriage is tough. People change, circumstances change. If you're worried about protecting your wealth, you're going to be influenced by that and make decisions and act based on that mindset. What kind of woman is going to want to be married to someone who doesn't want an equal partnership? If protecting wealth is a big thing for you, you probably shouldn't be getting married.
offshoreeddy said:
Commit to someone and live with them by all means, but keep your monies separate, make a note of what you've brought into the relationship (bills paid, things purchased)
I cant think of a more worse way to have a 'relationship'.If I was this cynical id probably have killed myself by now.
Zetec-S said:
Well put El stovey
When me and Mrs ZS got married there was a bit of a gap in earnings and 'wealth' (she had some debt, I had a small amount of savings), but it never crossed my mind to start adding caveats or clauses.
If you feel the need to protect your assets then you need to have a think about whether you should be getting married. Too many people rush into it without thinking properly, which is why the divorce rate is as high as it is. One of the questions to honestly ask yourself is if overnight you lost all your money, would the person you're thinking of marrying still want to be with you?
Wholeheartedly agree. Mrs Bigmon outearns me by a considerable amount but I'd still want to be with her if she didn't have a pot to piss in. I've never once thought about how much I'd get if we divorced as I'm hoping we never will.When me and Mrs ZS got married there was a bit of a gap in earnings and 'wealth' (she had some debt, I had a small amount of savings), but it never crossed my mind to start adding caveats or clauses.
If you feel the need to protect your assets then you need to have a think about whether you should be getting married. Too many people rush into it without thinking properly, which is why the divorce rate is as high as it is. One of the questions to honestly ask yourself is if overnight you lost all your money, would the person you're thinking of marrying still want to be with you?
If something like that came onto the horizon then I would have to start considering it, but to begin a relationship with such a lack of trust doesn't sound great to me.
Amateurish said:
In the situation the OP describes, his friend absolutely should be thinking about the consequences of a relationship breakdown. When there is a such a massive disparity in wealth, the financial risk of marriage is huge.
It wouldn't bother me one little bit. I got marrried, I had way more money than my wife, I couldn't care less, she's my equal partner. If it doesn't work out, then we split it and I'll do my best to look after my children. It's not about financial risk in any way at all to me. It's about my wife feeling an equal part of the relationship, she's not going to feel like that if I'm pointing out "disparities in wealth" is she?
Money and wealth simply shouldn't be this important to people. If you're looking at a potential partner and are worried about having more money than them, you're heading for trouble. Enough s
t things can go wrong in your marriage without having that in the background affecting your decision making.El stovey said:
It wouldn't bother me one little bit. I got marrried, I had way more money than my wife, I couldn't care less, she's my equal partner. If it doesn't work out, then we split it and I'll do my best to look after my children.
It's not about financial risk in any way at all to me. It's about my wife feeling an equal part of the relationship, she's not going to feel like that if I'm pointing out "disparities in wealth" is she?
Money and wealth simply shouldn't be this important to people. If you're looking at a potential partner and are worried about having more money than them, you're heading for trouble. Enough st things can go wrong in your marriage without having that in the background affecting your decision making.
If it wouldn't bother you one little bit, then all credit to you. It's not about financial risk in any way at all to me. It's about my wife feeling an equal part of the relationship, she's not going to feel like that if I'm pointing out "disparities in wealth" is she?
Money and wealth simply shouldn't be this important to people. If you're looking at a potential partner and are worried about having more money than them, you're heading for trouble. Enough s
t things can go wrong in your marriage without having that in the background affecting your decision making.
No-one likes to have to prepare for the disasters in life. Sometimes divorce happens and it's not foreseeable or anyone's fault. I don't buy the idea that thinking about the consequences make it any more likely to happen.
Amateurish said:
El stovey said:
It wouldn't bother me one little bit. I got marrried, I had way more money than my wife, I couldn't care less, she's my equal partner. If it doesn't work out, then we split it and I'll do my best to look after my children.
It's not about financial risk in any way at all to me. It's about my wife feeling an equal part of the relationship, she's not going to feel like that if I'm pointing out "disparities in wealth" is she?
Money and wealth simply shouldn't be this important to people. If you're looking at a potential partner and are worried about having more money than them, you're heading for trouble. Enough st things can go wrong in your marriage without having that in the background affecting your decision making.
If it wouldn't bother you one little bit, then all credit to you. It's not about financial risk in any way at all to me. It's about my wife feeling an equal part of the relationship, she's not going to feel like that if I'm pointing out "disparities in wealth" is she?
Money and wealth simply shouldn't be this important to people. If you're looking at a potential partner and are worried about having more money than them, you're heading for trouble. Enough s
t things can go wrong in your marriage without having that in the background affecting your decision making.No-one likes to have to prepare for the disasters in life. Sometimes divorce happens and it's not foreseeable or anyone's fault. I don't buy the idea that thinking about the consequences make it any more likely to happen.
You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
El stovey said:
Its not about not being prepared. I have stuff insured, I try and mitigate against bad things happening to me and my family. It's the mindset. If you go into a marriage thinking that there is a wealth disparity and that you want some recognition of this or some kind of acknowledgement of having more money than your partner, you're simply not entering into an equal relationship. Money is affecting you and your relationships.
You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
I think this is a common misconception, that being worried about this stuff upfront means trouble for the relationship later on. In my own experience, and based off the vast majority of successful and unsuccessful relationships I see among friends and family and hear about via the web, it's the "we are true equals and everything is shared" people who get themselves into the most trouble. The people who are pragmatic and realistic about money etc tend to have the stronger and longer-lasting relationships, I would guess because everyone knows exactly where they stand should the worst happen and everyone can rest easy a little bit as a result. Just like having insurance. You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
Being open and fully joint with money is a great feeling, and works brilliantly, while you're on the same team. But if ever one party has a change of heart, suddenly overnight it is a monumental exposure to personal risk, and for what gain?
Thanks for ALL !! the replies .... very interesting reading.
Just to put the record straight a little, he's not really going into it thinking about it failing and he's sure its the right girl. He's in his 40's and she's in her 30's so both grown up and rational people.
He's more than happy ... if anything went wrong to give a chunk away.
The main concern is he's got another 10 years work in him and doesn't want to loose all he;'s accumulated at a point where he cant earn some of it back.
He's not really mentioned the money side but the rest of the team ( all blokes !!) may have been winding him up .... a little !!! :-)
Thanks
Phib
Just to put the record straight a little, he's not really going into it thinking about it failing and he's sure its the right girl. He's in his 40's and she's in her 30's so both grown up and rational people.
He's more than happy ... if anything went wrong to give a chunk away.
The main concern is he's got another 10 years work in him and doesn't want to loose all he;'s accumulated at a point where he cant earn some of it back.
He's not really mentioned the money side but the rest of the team ( all blokes !!) may have been winding him up .... a little !!! :-)
Thanks
Phib
Venturist said:
El stovey said:
Its not about not being prepared. I have stuff insured, I try and mitigate against bad things happening to me and my family. It's the mindset. If you go into a marriage thinking that there is a wealth disparity and that you want some recognition of this or some kind of acknowledgement of having more money than your partner, you're simply not entering into an equal relationship. Money is affecting you and your relationships.
You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
I think this is a common misconception, that being worried about this stuff upfront means trouble for the relationship later on. In my own experience, and based off the vast majority of successful and unsuccessful relationships I see among friends and family and hear about via the web, it's the "we are true equals and everything is shared" people who get themselves into the most trouble. The people who are pragmatic and realistic about money etc tend to have the stronger and longer-lasting relationships, I would guess because everyone knows exactly where they stand should the worst happen and everyone can rest easy a little bit as a result. Just like having insurance. You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
Being open and fully joint with money is a great feeling, and works brilliantly, while you're on the same team. But if ever one party has a change of heart, suddenly overnight it is a monumental exposure to personal risk, and for what gain?
If you are both average earners pulling in £25k a year then I don't see a problem with that.
The only issue is where you have someone earning £250k a year and someone else earning £12k a year. But in reality how often does this really happen?
People tend to be partnered with similar levels, not very often a high flying businessman ends up in a relationship with a council flat dropout who does part time work at Co-op.
It's important to be fair with money, and to respect each others contributions.
Venturist said:
The people who are pragmatic and realistic about money etc tend to have the stronger and longer-lasting relationships, I would guess because everyone knows exactly where they stand should the worst happen and everyone can rest easy a little bit as a result. Just like having insurance.
Being open and fully joint with money is a great feeling, and works brilliantly, while you're on the same team. But if ever one party has a change of heart, suddenly overnight it is a monumental exposure to personal risk, and for what gain?
I pretty much disagree with you entirely, I suppose everyone has a different view of marriage and what it means and what's important to them. Being open and fully joint with money is a great feeling, and works brilliantly, while you're on the same team. But if ever one party has a change of heart, suddenly overnight it is a monumental exposure to personal risk, and for what gain?
The gain is being in an equal relationship and sharing stuff. To me that's entirely what a marriage actually is. What you're describing sounds like some kind of financial contract. What's important to me is not having money influence the balance in the relationship. Share it and if you've married the right person, they will have the same kind of outlook as you.
xjay1337 said:
Venturist said:
El stovey said:
Its not about not being prepared. I have stuff insured, I try and mitigate against bad things happening to me and my family. It's the mindset. If you go into a marriage thinking that there is a wealth disparity and that you want some recognition of this or some kind of acknowledgement of having more money than your partner, you're simply not entering into an equal relationship. Money is affecting you and your relationships.
You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
I think this is a common misconception, that being worried about this stuff upfront means trouble for the relationship later on. In my own experience, and based off the vast majority of successful and unsuccessful relationships I see among friends and family and hear about via the web, it's the "we are true equals and everything is shared" people who get themselves into the most trouble. The people who are pragmatic and realistic about money etc tend to have the stronger and longer-lasting relationships, I would guess because everyone knows exactly where they stand should the worst happen and everyone can rest easy a little bit as a result. Just like having insurance. You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
Being open and fully joint with money is a great feeling, and works brilliantly, while you're on the same team. But if ever one party has a change of heart, suddenly overnight it is a monumental exposure to personal risk, and for what gain?
If you are both average earners pulling in £25k a year then I don't see a problem with that.
The only issue is where you have someone earning £250k a year and someone else earning £12k a year. But in reality how often does this really happen?
People tend to be partnered with similar levels, not very often a high flying businessman ends up in a relationship with a council flat dropout who does part time work at Co-op.
It's important to be fair with money, and to respect each others contributions.
Basically, 'I' dont earn anything. 'We' earn 'x' and 5x 'x' between us.
The only way to be fair with money in a marriage is to forget that either of you exists as a single entity in my opinion. Once married, 'I' ceased to exist in a financial sense. Any other way would be utterly bizarre and out of the question for me.
p1stonhead said:
Whilst im not at £250k level, I earn 5 times what the missus does. Ive never thought of it as anything other than 'our' money since we got together.
Basically, 'I' dont earn anything. 'We' earn 'x' amount and 5x 'x' between us.
The only way to be fair with money in a marriage is to forget that either of you exists as a single entity in my opinion.
I used to earn 3 times what the Mrs earnt.Basically, 'I' dont earn anything. 'We' earn 'x' amount and 5x 'x' between us.
The only way to be fair with money in a marriage is to forget that either of you exists as a single entity in my opinion.
With a paycut and her getting a payrise it's about twice as much now.
I dont view it as my income or her income.
It's our joint income.
Your way is the best way but that only works as long as people don't take the piss.
El stovey said:
Its not about not being prepared. I have stuff insured, I try and mitigate against bad things happening to me and my family. It's the mindset. If you go into a marriage thinking that there is a wealth disparity and that you want some recognition of this or some kind of acknowledgement of having more money than your partner, you're simply not entering into an equal relationship. Money is affecting you and your relationships.
You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
No, I'm not saying that. While they are together, they will share the wealth, be it in terms of living in a nice property, or enjoying the finer things together. If they stay together until death, all the better. The question is about what happens to wealth if the relationship ends. You're saying, lets go through life together but I'm not sharing this money here, it's mine not yours. It might work out for you, it might not but I bet people who go into marriage thinking about wealth disparity and worried about their belongings are much more likely to have a failed result.
Actually, what I am saying is, why get married at all? Prenups have very limited value especially if, as is often the case, there is a change of circumstances e.g. the arrival of children. Personally, I've been with my partner for 20 years and unmarried. Many of my friends have long lasting, committed relationships outside of marriage. For OP's friend I would say he has little to gain but lots to potentially lose.
xjay1337 said:
The only issue is where you have someone earning £250k a year and someone else earning £12k a year. But in reality how often does this really happen?
People tend to be partnered with similar levels, not very often a high flying businessman ends up in a relationship with a council flat dropout who does part time work at Co-op.
I know loads of blokes who have good jobs and their wives don't work. My mum and dad were exactly like this. People tend to be partnered with similar levels, not very often a high flying businessman ends up in a relationship with a council flat dropout who does part time work at Co-op.
I expect this has influenced my views on marriage, my parents are still together and I grew up seeing my mum and dad having shared accounts, and bank cards etc just for the one account, there was never any issues about my mum taking money out or what she spent. They have an equal partnership.
I remember as a kid talking to friends where the dad used to pay the mum an allowance or a salary. I expect they were "protecting their assets" and had this "marriage insurance" and everyone knew the score etc. other posters mention earlier.
It's not for me but if it really works for other couples then great.
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