Cost of living

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Surely this is what it all comes down to?

Some people spend £500 a month on nibbles and drinks going to work, most don't. Even when I worked in central London I probably spent less than £50 on such stuff each month.

[johnwilliams77]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Jeez
Take a girl (date or wife) out for a decent meal (nice place), bottle of wine, some cocktails after, taxi, easy 150-250.
Stag/holidays = very normal!

[gavsdavs]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No, nobody forces you to buy expensive coffee, but some (many) people choose to.

Interest and bank charges - are a sign of a slippery slope. If you're debt free, you don't. If you aren't, you do, and they're punitive.

Tickets and Fines - i guess you pay for transport to work somehow ? fuel ? Great if you don't, but I'm talking about the general population, not specific examples. These are things many people have to fund.

Stags/holidays - Have you never been on one? Do you know what one is ? Do you understand that people might want to go on one ? Again - prudence should win out but you must be able to understand the temptation that people might have.

Again - my list was attempting to provide a more comprehensive list of regular household expenditure and where cash burns. It's how people end up spending every penny of their (often substantial) salaries.

[HugoFastmann]

Living "comfortably" is a relative term, surely? I read the comment of a £100k minimum household income to live comfortably, I couldn't help but think that's a statement which simply cannot be applied around the country.

Example: my best friend lives in Liverpool with his fiancée. They have a combined income marginally higher than ours, but we live in the New Forest. They've bought a house for under £120k (brand new!) and he's bought himself a lovely new BMW M135i. We've just found an old house for £280k (no chance of a house of any habitable state for under £150k around here), and neither of us can afford anywhere near new BMW's.

Cost of living to live comfortably is completely relative to location, without doubt.

Back on topic to the OP, this is 100% true, unless you're on an impressive single income and live in an area where your single income is significant enough to offset your outgoings. If you're <30 years old earning £50k in London, you're not likely to be living as "comfortably" as a 50 year old earning £40k in Yorkshire who's already paid off their mortgage years ago.

[r-kid]

j44esd said:

Except your mortgage equates to £60k and you can't buy a house anywhere for that now....average house price and average salary simply don't compute - I'm pleased you're in a position to have a £320 pcm mortgage - but most simply don't have that luxury.

Here (In a cheap part of the country) £320 is rent on a two bed terrace in the kind of place that makes the evening news.....I'm lucky to have a good job and a good income - but that's through good luck/hard work* many aren't so fortunate, and the younger you are the harder it is.

Had I have been old enough I could have bought my house 15 years earlier for 1/3 the price - would my salary have been 1/3? Probably not...

* delete as applicable

I only bought my house 6 years ago, and plenty of 2 bed houses near me in the £70-80k price bracket. Expanding the search out of my town nets them starting at £55k.

[stupidbutkeen]

j44esd said:

Except your mortgage equates to £60k and you can't buy a house anywhere for that now....average house price and average salary simply don't compute - I'm pleased you're in a position to have a £320 pcm mortgage - but most simply don't have that luxury.

Here (In a cheap part of the country) £320 is rent on a two bed terrace in the kind of place that makes the evening news.....I'm lucky to have a good job and a good income - but that's through good luck/hard work* many aren't so fortunate, and the younger you are the harder it is.

Had I have been old enough I could have bought my house 15 years earlier for 1/3 the price - would my salary have been 1/3? Probably not...

* delete as applicable

next door to me is up for sale and you could get it for under 60k. (on the market for £69,999 but its going to auction with a reserve of £57,500)

only problem is its in a council estate in East Belfast but it is a 1100sq ft 3 bed end ter house with a south facing suntrap back garden in a very quiet pedestrianized street.

I have owned my house next to it now for 17 years, and I am one of the shorter periods of residency in the street.

[sc0tt]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

All bills included. Travel to work, the lot.

£150 for food.

My social fund is £150 a week which is where I spend most of my cash.Then holidays etc blah.

[Kermit power]

djc206 said:

It's also high time we did away with punishing the reasonably successful by stripping away personal allowance at £100k+. Why is £100-122k effectively taxed far more than everything earned over £122k?

I've just emailed my MP to ask if there will be anything in the Conservative Manifesto on this, and if not, why not. Might be worth others doing the same?

Even if you accept that those on higher wages should pay a higher percentage of their income in taxation, I would challenge anyone to make a fair case for someone on £120k to be paying a higher percentage of their income than someone on £220k.

If they really feel that they have to have the higher tax rate over £100k, what's wrong with reinstating the allowance, then applying an percentage hike on all earnings over £100k, rather than just on those between £100k - £122k?

[Kermit power]

mangos said:

I'm surprised at this.
As a Couple with joint income of £65k gross living in South East near M25, we afford a mortgage and to run 2 cars without loans, with plenty of money left over to go on holidays multiple times a year and put away a large chunk into savings each month too.

Salary will drop soon as I've just started maternity leave, but we have savings as a back up and there's no pressure to go back to work full time at the end as we will be able to afford the cut.

We both do jobs we live without the added stress of pressure and targets and long hours and that's worth it's weight in gold too.

You say you've just started maternity leave. Is this your first child? If so, you're likely to get a rude awakening! Quite apart from the myriad surprising ways in which the little cherubs can completely fleece you directly, just wait until you see how much more expensive those multiple holidays are going to be when you're doing them in school holidays and paying for more than just two of you...

[j44esd]

r-kid said:

I only bought my house 6 years ago, and plenty of 2 bed houses near me in the £70-80k price bracket. Expanding the search out of my town nets them starting at £55k.

Excellent, so plenty near you for more than the figure you quoted.

£55k is indeed a starting point for flats etc round me too, but you are (and this is not meant disrespectfully) plucking figures to suit your argument - don't forget you are backing up a statement of £320 mortgage is 'more likely' - it simply isn't - by your own volition you state that this is in fact as cheap as it gets (even cheaper than your purchase).

Seriously though - kudos on your new house and I'm pleased wherever you live/work that's still doable, but the person you quoted mentioned £800 - is that 'more real' I don't know - but if we look at averages, the average U.K. House price is £234,794

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-...

The average wage is £27,600 (gross)

https://www.incometaxcalculator.org.uk/average-sal...

This suggests that irrelevant of whether £320 pcm is right or £800 is right, there is huge disparity - after all that average house is a circa £1200 pcm mortgage - maybe that suggests £800 is closer to 'average' than £320?

I stand by 'cost of living' is hugely variable - there is no right or wrong, but the other posters have pointed out income disparity increasing not decreasing...

Tldr?

I kind of agree with you, and congrats on the new house, but I don't think it's as 'clear cut' as you imply overall.

[johnwilliams77]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I cannot understand how anyone can live without all of those things plus a new car

[S10GTA]

Sky is the one that gets me. Its always the ones who can least afford it too.

Also see smoking and lotto.

[Kermit power]

Antony Moxey said:

Gareth79 said:

I think when people say live "comfortably" they mean "can live and spend money as we please (within reason) without specifically budgeting or worrying about not having enough".

Yes, and you can do that on considerably less than £100k pa. We've never earned anything even remotely close to that yet are comfortable, do what we like and have two kids - one's just flown the nest - run a couple of cars plus a motorhome and a kit car and pretty much buy what we fancy when we fancy it.

I guess it boils down to what monetary value you put on 'comfortable'.

Or just as likely it boils down to when you got on the property ladder and in what part of the country, as the difference in that can be immense.

[j44esd]

stupidbutkeen said:

next door to me is up for sale and you could get it for under 60k. (on the market for £69,999 but its going to auction with a reserve of £57,500)

only problem is its in a council estate in East Belfast but it is a 1100sq ft 3 bed end ter house with a south facing suntrap back garden in a very quiet pedestrianized street.

I have owned my house next to it now for 17 years, and I am one of the shorter periods of residency in the street.

Again, my query would be - how much was yours when you bought it vs. percentage of salary - my point isn't 'you need a £100k just to live' (as i certainly don't have it ).

It's more 'what is enough' has been screwed over due to wages not rising as fast as property prices.

I could adopt the (as seen by many posters) 'I'm alright jack' attitude - I have a nice house in a nice area and cars to play with - but I'm more keen to see parity for others - if you've been in your house 17 years, chances are you're 37+ - talking to people now, I wouldn't fancy being 18 again with wages vs. House prices...

Ps - love Belfast, had many a grand night out there!

[Bristol spark]

gavsdavs said:

Bristol spark said:

Rent £800
Council tax £100
Food £100
Utilities. £50
Car insurance/tax £60

So bare living costs, say £1200/month.

Say £2500/month after tax, thats £1300/month left to entertain one self per month which i would say is comfortable??

You really only spend £100 a month on food ? If you have an <insert chain here> latte each working day, you're spending £100 a month.

Can i suggest these might be more realistic numbers each month.
- Rent/Mortgage £800. (Some will pay less, some more)
- Council tax - £150.
- Food/Takeaways/Coffees on the way to work £500
- Electricity & Gas £100/month.
- Broadband/Sky/Landline/Mobile/TV License/Netflix/Spotify/etc - £100/month.
- House insurance/house contents insurance - £30 ?
- Car tax/Car Insurance/Recovery service - £60 ?
- Cinema/Meals ? Lets say you go out twice - £100.
- Pension/ISA/Rainy Day savings ?

That's before you've paid for any clothes, or transport, or bought lunch at work. Or had a flat tyre or needed a new fridge. Or paid any credit card interest or bank charges or Parking Tickets or Speeding Fines. Stag/Hen do ? Holidays ?

It feels a little like people are still living at the kindness of other people and aren't fully adjusted to paying for all of life themselves.

I dont have breakfast or lunch, i just eat in the evenings when home from work. Pie and chips from the local chippy is £3. Beans on toast must cost less than £1.

I dont buy expensive coffee's. My customers generally make me plenty

Broadband/mobile etc company pays for. Dont have a TV licence. Although do have netflix and amazon and nowtv for sky sports.

Haven't been to a cinema since i was about 16! (I fall asleep half way through).

Car costs are low as car only for pleasure, probably use twice a month.
Have a company paid van for everything else.

Savings/holidays etc come out of the remaining £1300/month.

[sc0tt]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Unsure whether mocking. I don't have a sky package and my phone bill is £18 p/m.

Living alone was a game changer but no point going to work all month to sit in and stare at 4 beige walls so I'd rather be out and about.

[P-Jay]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Few factors at play as I see it.

I think a gradual interest rate rise was a given pre-EU Ref, but that's obviously out of the question now.

Stricter Lending Criteria certainly plays a part, the days of the 105% even 110% mortgage to first time buyers with iffy histories are long gone which cooled the first-time buyers’ market a lot and the end of self-cert cooled the switch market. New affordability calculators instead of simple 'multiples of income' max lends are tied to inflation so whilst we have largely static wages and rising inflation we'll have less collective money in the market.

We have the new tax rules which mean that BTL is less attractive which should mean less part-time landlords which means less buyers for first homes.

Softening of 'green belt' regs that were designed to limit supply are already showing massive developments - for example, my home town - Cardiff, expensive place to live (Yes, believe it or not) for somewhere outside London, half a mill for my (sadly rented) 3 bed semi. There are currently 2000 homes for sale in Cardiff on right more - that's any type from a £45k plot of land in a rough part of town to a £8.5m small block of flat and everywhere in between - 2000 homes to choose from, but there's a big development starting 3 sites around the city - new suburbs with motorway access and a "garden city" feel - 6000 new homes in the next 3 years. If supply and demand is a factor, and most people believe it's the biggest - then quadrupling the available market in 3 years is going to have a huge effect.

There are projects like this springing up all over the country quietly over the next few years.

[j44esd]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I could adopt the (as seen by many posters) 'I'm alright jack' attitude...

I understand your point about taking an "I'm alright jack" approach to things but frankly, I can't be arsed worrying about other people. I've got enough to deal with just to keep on keeping on. So yeah, I'll look after me and mine!

It wasn't a criticism, you probably have the right idea

Think of my points as more 'devils advocate' - it is after all a forum for debate and there is a lot of strong views being out across as to what is/isn't enough for 'cost of living' in the U.K. - I am ok (today) but I always wonder what might be round the corner, you can plan for a lot, but not for everything.

Ps - equally, there is a lot of truth in the 'entitlement' concept being banded about by some posters - but I'd don't think it's fair to tar all of Gen Y with that brush

[BoRED S2upid]

gavsdavs said:

The Ferret said:

....Life Assurance, Critical Illness....

Good shout, there's £120 a month. I think it's an unusual insurance these days.

There we go again with the random number generator. For the vast majority this insurance at a basic level would be nowhere close to this far far less and many who rent probably don't have it.

[S10GTA]

BoRED S2upid said:

gavsdavs said:

The Ferret said:

....Life Assurance, Critical Illness....

Good shout, there's £120 a month. I think it's an unusual insurance these days.

There we go again with the random number generator. For the vast majority this insurance at a basic level would be nowhere close to this far far less and many who rent probably don't have it.

£120?!

Mine is £12, for both of us...