Does anyone believe supernatural rubbish?
Discussion
Well here's one from personal experience.
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
drainbrain said:
Well here's one from personal experience.
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
You presumably think it was supernatural in some way? Do go on....I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
drainbrain said:
Well here's one from personal experience.
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Tough one! I'm going to go with either 'a rational explanation' or 'some sort of absurd psychic link'.I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Incidentally, every time I walk past my fish tank, they all start congregating at the surface, wanting fed. It's almost as though they recognise me! I'm pretty sure your child was smarter than an angelfish.
Or maybe he saw something interesting at that point in the road and wasn't able to vocalise anything but that sound. Honestly, there are a million normal explanations. He wasn't able to just 'sense' her, if that's what you think.
Disastrous said:
Tough one! I'm going to go with either 'a rational explanation' or 'some sort of absurd psychic link'.
Incidentally, every time I walk past my fish tank, they all start congregating at the surface, wanting fed. It's almost as though they recognise me! I'm pretty sure your child was smarter than an angelfish.
Or maybe he saw something interesting at that point in the road and wasn't able to vocalise anything but that sound. Honestly, there are a million normal explanations. He wasn't able to just 'sense' her, if that's what you think.
Well that's what makes it strange, because that's exactly what it seemed like. It was on more than one occasion too. Incidentally, every time I walk past my fish tank, they all start congregating at the surface, wanting fed. It's almost as though they recognise me! I'm pretty sure your child was smarter than an angelfish.
Or maybe he saw something interesting at that point in the road and wasn't able to vocalise anything but that sound. Honestly, there are a million normal explanations. He wasn't able to just 'sense' her, if that's what you think.
Can I add, it didn't 'bother' me or 'freak me out' or send me scurrying to research it or even mention it to anyone. But it definitely happened and certainly didn't appear to have any rational explanation either at the time or later with hindsight.
Your fish are interesting. I thought they were supposed to have very very short 'memories' (2 or 3 seconds?) But they've obviously built an association between you and the feeding experience.
drainbrain said:
Well here's one from personal experience.
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Maybe, the first time you drove past, you happen to say "that's where mummy is". And then with everything else going on. you forgot you'd said it. Sonny Jim, being a bright lad (they do say it misses a generation, so he would be ), picked up on it and remembered. I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Now you're going to say that's impossible, but it's a damn sight more likely than some psychic link between mother and son.
drainbrain said:
Disastrous said:
Tough one! I'm going to go with either 'a rational explanation' or 'some sort of absurd psychic link'.
Incidentally, every time I walk past my fish tank, they all start congregating at the surface, wanting fed. It's almost as though they recognise me! I'm pretty sure your child was smarter than an angelfish.
Or maybe he saw something interesting at that point in the road and wasn't able to vocalise anything but that sound. Honestly, there are a million normal explanations. He wasn't able to just 'sense' her, if that's what you think.
Well that's what makes it strange, because that's exactly what it seemed like. It was on more than one occasion too. Incidentally, every time I walk past my fish tank, they all start congregating at the surface, wanting fed. It's almost as though they recognise me! I'm pretty sure your child was smarter than an angelfish.
Or maybe he saw something interesting at that point in the road and wasn't able to vocalise anything but that sound. Honestly, there are a million normal explanations. He wasn't able to just 'sense' her, if that's what you think.
Can I add, it didn't 'bother' me or 'freak me out' or send me scurrying to research it or even mention it to anyone. But it definitely happened and certainly didn't appear to have any rational explanation either at the time or later with hindsight.
Your fish are interesting. I thought they were supposed to have very very short 'memories' (2 or 3 seconds?) But they've obviously built an association between you and the feeding experience.
As for your experience, I guess it may have felt like that, but there are so many more likely explanations, why would it not be one of them?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
drainbrain said:
Well here's one from personal experience.
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Maybe, the first time you drove past, you happen to say "that's where mummy is". And then with everything else going on. you forgot you'd said it. Sonny Jim, being a bright lad (they do say it misses a generation, so he would be ), picked up on it and remembered. I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Now you're going to say that's impossible, but it's a damn sight more likely than some psychic link between mother and son.
drainbrain said:
Well here's one from personal experience.
I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Tough one.I lived in Spain for a few years in the '80's. My son was born there. His mum took quite ill when he was about 15 months old, and had to spend about a month in a nursing clinic while she convalesced. So I had sole care of the kid for a few weeks. This included taking him to and from his baby nursery perhaps 3 or 4 days a week.
The clinic in which the missus was convalescing could be seen from the road from our house to the nursery. It was about half a mile away. And whenever we passed the bit that passed the clinic, the boy would turn in his carseat, reach out towards the clinic, and say "ma! ma!" really distinctly. I remember thinking this was a bit odd and actually a bit unsettling.
Now this was a toddler. Barely starting to speak. At what Piaget would call the sensorimotor stage of cognitive development. Certainly hardly if even at all at the stage of pre-operational cognition. He wouldn't have been aware of the clinic or where it was situated or that his mum was in it. And as an adult he has no memory of the matter.
How is that odd incident explained?
Is he able to turn his head around 360 degrees? If so I'm going with demonic possession.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Maybe, the first time you drove past, you happen to say "that's where mummy is". And then with everything else going on. you forgot you'd said it. Sonny Jim, being a bright lad (they do say it misses a generation, so he would be ), picked up on it and remembered.
Now you're going to say that's impossible, but it's a damn sight more likely than some psychic link between mother and son.
It couldn't really be that because a 15 month old wouldn't have sufficient cognition to take in and reprocess a throwaway comment like that. I doubt you could even 'train' a 15 month old to respond by deliberate repetition of it. Apart from which it only occurred to me that we'd just passed the distant clinic when he said it the first time. Now you're going to say that's impossible, but it's a damn sight more likely than some psychic link between mother and son.
Coincidence apart (kid thinking about or even 'visualising' and responding to mother at that moment) I'm really stumped for rational explanation. But I'm not wholly unconvinced about the 'psychic link'. It's certainly not unheard of, especially between close family and particularly twins. And 'non-verbal' communication is common in the NDE tales. Speaking of which, isn't science starting to recognise some reality in NDEs? .........like this?
http://skeptiko.com/94-jeffrey-long-near-death-exp...
or this:
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2014/10/07-world...
Edited by drainbrain on Wednesday 24th May 20:12
drainbrain said:
It couldn't really be that because a 15 month old wouldn't have sufficient cognition to take in and reprocess a throwaway comment like that. I doubt you could even 'train' a 15 month old to respond by deliberate repetition of it. Apart from which it only occurred to me that we'd just passed the distant clinic when he said it the first time.
Coincidence apart (kid thinking about or even 'visualising' and responding to mother at that moment) I'm really stumped for rational explanation. But I'm not wholly unconvinced about the 'psychic link'. It's certainly not unheard of, especially between close family and particularly twins. And 'non-verbal' communication is common in the NDE tales. Speaking of which, isn't science starting to recognise some reality in NDEs?
Any strange marks on your family photos? Coincidence apart (kid thinking about or even 'visualising' and responding to mother at that moment) I'm really stumped for rational explanation. But I'm not wholly unconvinced about the 'psychic link'. It's certainly not unheard of, especially between close family and particularly twins. And 'non-verbal' communication is common in the NDE tales. Speaking of which, isn't science starting to recognise some reality in NDEs?
Is the nanny still OK?
drainbrain said:
Your fish are interesting. I thought they were supposed to have very very short 'memories' (2 or 3 seconds?) But they've obviously built an association between you and the feeding experience.
My undergraduate project was learning in fish. I siliconed a seed tray to the bottom of an aquarium and filled it with little enough water that the fish couldn't see into them until they were right on top of them. Then I compared food placed in a random position with a regular position. I found that the regular position was found less quickly. I didn't account in the design for the tendency of the fish to follow the edges, and the regular position was in the middle. Eejit. Still, both groups got quicker at finding food over time.drainbrain said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Maybe, the first time you drove past, you happen to say "that's where mummy is". And then with everything else going on. you forgot you'd said it. Sonny Jim, being a bright lad (they do say it misses a generation, so he would be ), picked up on it and remembered.
Now you're going to say that's impossible, but it's a damn sight more likely than some psychic link between mother and son.
It couldn't really be that because a 15 month old wouldn't have sufficient cognition to take in and reprocess a throwaway comment like that. I doubt you could even 'train' a 15 month old to respond by deliberate repetition of it. Apart from which it only occurred to me that we'd just passed the distant clinic when he said it the first time. Now you're going to say that's impossible, but it's a damn sight more likely than some psychic link between mother and son.
Coincidence apart (kid thinking about or even 'visualising' and responding to mother at that moment) I'm really stumped for rational explanation. But I'm not wholly unconvinced about the 'psychic link'. It's certainly not unheard of, especially between close family and particularly twins. And 'non-verbal' communication is common in the NDE tales. Speaking of which, isn't science starting to recognise some reality in NDEs? .........like this?
http://skeptiko.com/94-jeffrey-long-near-death-exp...
Edited by drainbrain on Wednesday 24th May 20:04
Vron said:
I mentioned this earlier in the thread regarding my identical twin having a difficult labour and me thinking I was having a heart attack at the same time. This was 'explained' that I was coincidentally concerned about my sister. The simple fact is due to her being taken in under blue light I didn't actually know about this until after she had arrived at hospital, nephew had been delivered by CS and my brother in law rang me shortly after when he was able to.
I don't think these sort of experiences between twins are even particularly unusual tbh. There's LOADS of them. Mostly anecdotal, of course. Maybe all it proves is that twins are more likely to be attention-seeking liars.
Or maybe not......
drainbrain said:
Vron said:
I mentioned this earlier in the thread regarding my identical twin having a difficult labour and me thinking I was having a heart attack at the same time. This was 'explained' that I was coincidentally concerned about my sister. The simple fact is due to her being taken in under blue light I didn't actually know about this until after she had arrived at hospital, nephew had been delivered by CS and my brother in law rang me shortly after when he was able to.
I don't think these sort of experiences between twins are even particularly unusual tbh. There's LOADS of them. Mostly anecdotal, of course. Maybe all it proves is that twins are more likely to be attention-seeking liars.
Or maybe not......
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
smn159 said:
drainbrain said:
It couldn't really be that because a 15 month old wouldn't have sufficient cognition to take in and reprocess a throwaway comment like that. I doubt you could even 'train' a 15 month old to respond by deliberate repetition of it. Apart from which it only occurred to me that we'd just passed the distant clinic when he said it the first time.
Coincidence apart (kid thinking about or even 'visualising' and responding to mother at that moment) I'm really stumped for rational explanation. But I'm not wholly unconvinced about the 'psychic link'. It's certainly not unheard of, especially between close family and particularly twins. And 'non-verbal' communication is common in the NDE tales. Speaking of which, isn't science starting to recognise some reality in NDEs?
Any strange marks on your family photos? Coincidence apart (kid thinking about or even 'visualising' and responding to mother at that moment) I'm really stumped for rational explanation. But I'm not wholly unconvinced about the 'psychic link'. It's certainly not unheard of, especially between close family and particularly twins. And 'non-verbal' communication is common in the NDE tales. Speaking of which, isn't science starting to recognise some reality in NDEs?
Is the nanny still OK?
thebigm said:
"Me, being a person of science, can't see any logical explanation to how it's possible for a 'spirit' to have moved them"
I don't think being a person of science precludes you from keeping an open mind - obviously what science has discovered in the short time that human beings have been around is tiny - We don't understand a fraction of what is going on in the universe and science is just starting to develop theories of multiple universes, for example.
Having said that, there is a load of obvious supernatural bunkum, but this does not mean there is no truth to any of it - and there a plenty of pictures on-line of what could be called "ghosts"
I have had experiences of things "moving" that can't really be explained away and other strange synchronicities - there is certainly more the this world than the material!
Interesting point of view.I don't think being a person of science precludes you from keeping an open mind - obviously what science has discovered in the short time that human beings have been around is tiny - We don't understand a fraction of what is going on in the universe and science is just starting to develop theories of multiple universes, for example.
Having said that, there is a load of obvious supernatural bunkum, but this does not mean there is no truth to any of it - and there a plenty of pictures on-line of what could be called "ghosts"
I have had experiences of things "moving" that can't really be explained away and other strange synchronicities - there is certainly more the this world than the material!
I'm not sure about the pictures of ghosts though. I do believe that these things can be very easily faked, so I don't go a bundle on them.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Twins who claim a psychic link have never been able to replicate such a link in a controlled experiment. Never...ever.
.....and with millions of pairs of twins out there they ought to be plenty of evidence.Also, if I were able to share a telepathic link with my (hypothetical) twin why wouldn't I use that to my advantage? Sit an exam and get the other twin to beam answers into my head...etc etc.
I just don't understand why people don't get that the 'I had pains in my chest as my twin was having a heart attack 100 miles away' is reported whilst the more usual ' I had pains in my chest but when I called my twin he was sat watching TV and was fine' doesn't get commented on.
I can only imagine there are lots of people out there (and on this thread) going around being constantly amazed by the most minor of coincidences.
'I thought about my mum and then she phoned me!'
'My friend, who've I've known for 30 years, and I wore identical hats to that wedding!'
' I haven't seen my brother for 20 years and we both drive the same type of car -a mondeo!'
' I had a dream about a plane crash and then there was one in the news a few days later!'
OMG - I'm soooooo psychic!!!
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