VW Camper Confusion
Discussion
My friend has a lifelong ambition to own a VW camper van of some description. A terrible affliction, but I want to help him in any way I can.
I've already helped him avoid one potential disaster as he was looking to buy a nice 2.5tdi T4 - but he wasn't even aware that he wouldn't be able to take it home as he lives in North London and it falls foul of the LEZ restrictions.
So, where do we go from here? He has a really decent budget, over 10k, which he has saved. There's so many options though; do you go for a van (cheaper purchase) and convert yourself like some of the wonderful projects on here and other sites? Or do you avoid potential pitfalls and buy a converted camper but put down more money in the first instance?
Petrol or diesel?
As petrol head among my peers they always turn to me for car advice, but I really don't know much about camper vans!
I think a project would be great, as it's something I can help him out with, but buying the base van seems like a minefield too. Naturally I'm reading all the FAQs and buying guides I can find, but some advice from pistonheads is usually fruitful no matter the subject!
I've looked at the pistonheads classifieds, lots of them appear from sellers of commercial vehicles stating that they will only sell b2b, surely that's not right? And the description basically mitigates them from the usual warranties you get buying from a dealer, again this can't be right? But I've never bought a "commercial vehicle" before...
So, what will the camper van be used for? Well, as much traveling as possible but also trips with the lads, so some rear seating is a must. He also doesn't want anything too much like a "family camper" so not too much cheap veneer and fluffy cushions, he needs it to be at least a little bit cool both internally and externally.
Any advice, good websites, places to look at for potential classifieds etc would be much appreciated.
I've already helped him avoid one potential disaster as he was looking to buy a nice 2.5tdi T4 - but he wasn't even aware that he wouldn't be able to take it home as he lives in North London and it falls foul of the LEZ restrictions.
So, where do we go from here? He has a really decent budget, over 10k, which he has saved. There's so many options though; do you go for a van (cheaper purchase) and convert yourself like some of the wonderful projects on here and other sites? Or do you avoid potential pitfalls and buy a converted camper but put down more money in the first instance?
Petrol or diesel?
As petrol head among my peers they always turn to me for car advice, but I really don't know much about camper vans!
I think a project would be great, as it's something I can help him out with, but buying the base van seems like a minefield too. Naturally I'm reading all the FAQs and buying guides I can find, but some advice from pistonheads is usually fruitful no matter the subject!
I've looked at the pistonheads classifieds, lots of them appear from sellers of commercial vehicles stating that they will only sell b2b, surely that's not right? And the description basically mitigates them from the usual warranties you get buying from a dealer, again this can't be right? But I've never bought a "commercial vehicle" before...
So, what will the camper van be used for? Well, as much traveling as possible but also trips with the lads, so some rear seating is a must. He also doesn't want anything too much like a "family camper" so not too much cheap veneer and fluffy cushions, he needs it to be at least a little bit cool both internally and externally.
Any advice, good websites, places to look at for potential classifieds etc would be much appreciated.
Not to be flippant but "decent budget of 10k" and VW camper suggests that it he wants something LEZ compliant in good condition then at best he will have to build it himself and at worse, save up another few grand. The VW scene tax unfortunately keeps residuals ridiculously high. I have a self build but I think the likes of the Cali or coach built conversions are ridiculously overpriced for what they are.
As above
If you convert yourself be aware he will need at least 300 hours to do a decent job.
That's a lot of weekends and evenings.
The other option would be a classic vw van but they are also expensive, slow and not very reliable, more suited for taking to a show, not blasting down the A303 to Cornwall on a Friday night.
If he really wants this he will need to up his budget, the upside being that he will get his money back come re sale.
I looked at some when I had a camper, I couldn't believe the money people were asking for vehicles that were f@@@ed.
As I wanted to go camping rather than be on the scene, I ended up buying a Toyota for a third of the price.
If you convert yourself be aware he will need at least 300 hours to do a decent job.
That's a lot of weekends and evenings.
The other option would be a classic vw van but they are also expensive, slow and not very reliable, more suited for taking to a show, not blasting down the A303 to Cornwall on a Friday night.
If he really wants this he will need to up his budget, the upside being that he will get his money back come re sale.
I looked at some when I had a camper, I couldn't believe the money people were asking for vehicles that were f@@@ed.
As I wanted to go camping rather than be on the scene, I ended up buying a Toyota for a third of the price.
Does he want a kitchen, fridge, etc built in, rock&roll bed (traditional VW camper style), or just a box on wheels that you can sleep in? Sleeping for two people, or more?
£10k is tight enough for a good T5 to convert, let alone with a competent conversion done.
I like Amdro conversions, nice simple practical layout - either the more comprehensive Angel kit, or the newer one they do for the Kombi looks ace if you want a practical van (eg for hauling people, bikes and other things) that you can also camp comfortably in. The boot jump they do for Berlingo and similar is nice too if you don't want a huge vehicle for city use.
There's also some jap import MPVs that have seats that fold flat into a bed - easily in budget and will do the miles more comfortably than a van. Almost all are petrol so not a problem there.
Could also go older VW campervan (eg. T25) which tend to be petrol and in budget (as they're not as in demand as earlier ones) - lots of ropey ones about though.
£10k is tight enough for a good T5 to convert, let alone with a competent conversion done.
I like Amdro conversions, nice simple practical layout - either the more comprehensive Angel kit, or the newer one they do for the Kombi looks ace if you want a practical van (eg for hauling people, bikes and other things) that you can also camp comfortably in. The boot jump they do for Berlingo and similar is nice too if you don't want a huge vehicle for city use.
There's also some jap import MPVs that have seats that fold flat into a bed - easily in budget and will do the miles more comfortably than a van. Almost all are petrol so not a problem there.
Could also go older VW campervan (eg. T25) which tend to be petrol and in budget (as they're not as in demand as earlier ones) - lots of ropey ones about though.
I think the total "absolute max" is closer to 12k, but with a view that spending less means money aside to put anything right.
I hear what you're saying, I think the LEZ-compliance is a real problem being as he lives within the zone. The petrol models seem few and far between and the information I've gathered about MPG isn't painting a good picture!
Appreciate your feedback RE budget. I think it's a desire to own something that can do a few spontaneous trips in, but also has a kind of hip appeal to it. A working cooker and sink are not a must, but a seating area / table and rock-n-roll bed are of interest. Transporting more than 2 people is also desirable for trips away with the lads, so a suitable seat which has been crash tested seems to be what is needed (from the research I've done so far!).
Ultimately I think he really needs to get out there and physically explore a few. Perhaps get him to a show? I don't think a specialist dealership will appreciate a tyre-kicker with such a vague idea of what he wants?
If anyone can give me any pointers I'd be grateful. He's based in North-East London and travels back and forth to Hertfordshire.
I hear what you're saying, I think the LEZ-compliance is a real problem being as he lives within the zone. The petrol models seem few and far between and the information I've gathered about MPG isn't painting a good picture!
Appreciate your feedback RE budget. I think it's a desire to own something that can do a few spontaneous trips in, but also has a kind of hip appeal to it. A working cooker and sink are not a must, but a seating area / table and rock-n-roll bed are of interest. Transporting more than 2 people is also desirable for trips away with the lads, so a suitable seat which has been crash tested seems to be what is needed (from the research I've done so far!).
Ultimately I think he really needs to get out there and physically explore a few. Perhaps get him to a show? I don't think a specialist dealership will appreciate a tyre-kicker with such a vague idea of what he wants?
If anyone can give me any pointers I'd be grateful. He's based in North-East London and travels back and forth to Hertfordshire.
The van will have to have a cooker to be classed as a motorhome and not a commercial vehicle
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
If he's set on a VW then there are loads of shows which attract a gathering of campers and most owners are very happy to show them off and chat through what they've done.
http://www.vwshows.com/shows.php?year=2017
May be a good idea just to have a look around at layout, features, etc and see what he actually wants.
http://www.vwshows.com/shows.php?year=2017
May be a good idea just to have a look around at layout, features, etc and see what he actually wants.
I'd say £10k is very optimistic for a VW Transporter conversion. We've toyed with the idea for a few years now, when we added up what we wanted the cost of a professional conversion alone was that much (lining, electrics, rock and roll bed, cooker, fridge, units, pop-top roof, etc). Not including the van.
I'm currently thinking about getting a van and doing the conversion myself, but again rough numbers suggest a decent SWB T5 will be £10k, plus £5k to kit out the van (similar to above but no pop-top roof). I reckon another couple of grand for things I've forgotten. Plus, at the risk of stating the obvious, remember the £10k van will look like a van, so you'll need to colour code bumpers, add side windows, etc.
And as mentioned earlier, it might be cheaper to do yourself but it'll take 200-300 hours. Christ, writing this reminds me why I'm still debating whether to get one or not
I'm currently thinking about getting a van and doing the conversion myself, but again rough numbers suggest a decent SWB T5 will be £10k, plus £5k to kit out the van (similar to above but no pop-top roof). I reckon another couple of grand for things I've forgotten. Plus, at the risk of stating the obvious, remember the £10k van will look like a van, so you'll need to colour code bumpers, add side windows, etc.
And as mentioned earlier, it might be cheaper to do yourself but it'll take 200-300 hours. Christ, writing this reminds me why I'm still debating whether to get one or not
In terms of the best engine, I think the 1.9 diesel has a better reliability record than the 2.0 or 2.5 diesels. IIRC it comes with either 80ish or 100ish bhp, but can be easily remapped for more power & economy. No idea if it's London friendly though....
One thing to bear in mind is the price in a lot of trade adverts does not include VAT, so he'll need to bear that in mind as it'll add 20% to the price.
One thing to bear in mind is the price in a lot of trade adverts does not include VAT, so he'll need to bear that in mind as it'll add 20% to the price.
Is it just for 2 people or are there kids in tow? I ask because if he wants to do a self build, then provided you take the time to do the research, you could build one without a rock and roll bed (so in effect a caravan type set up in the back) and have more comfort, and be a bit more creative with the rear layout. I always found the Rock & Roll layout far too restrictive, short on storage. I ended up building a side conversion in mine using Latvian Birch ply (in an Amdro/Cambee style) and built a kitchen unit, a shelf and another storage space which sites the fridge. In hours, it probably took me far longer to build than putting a rock and roll and some kitchen units down the side as it was all completely bespoke, but in the end I had plenty of storage and a route through the van. I've also seen a few U shaped seating areas which look great, and with a caravan style bed, it tends to be more comfortable than the lumps and bumps of a rock & roll which then needs a topper adding on to it.
Also, a van doesnt really need to be classified as a camper to be using it as one. He could build or have a bed built for him, and add a couple of storage units (could even have running water) but keep the cooking for outside in an awning or under the shelter of the rear door.
Of course, if he needs more than 3 seats then he needs to look at seats in the rear. Kombi seats with a frame behind usually work quite well, but then its more of a utility vehicle with an awning attached than a self-sufficient camper which doesnt need anything else bolting to it.
Ive had mine since 2013, took me approximately 6 months to do it, but i've probably done in excess off 20 weeks worth of camping in the UK and overseas in that time and its been absolutely brilliant. Tell him to sit down, work out a wish list by looking at what others have and go from there.
Also, a van doesnt really need to be classified as a camper to be using it as one. He could build or have a bed built for him, and add a couple of storage units (could even have running water) but keep the cooking for outside in an awning or under the shelter of the rear door.
Of course, if he needs more than 3 seats then he needs to look at seats in the rear. Kombi seats with a frame behind usually work quite well, but then its more of a utility vehicle with an awning attached than a self-sufficient camper which doesnt need anything else bolting to it.
Ive had mine since 2013, took me approximately 6 months to do it, but i've probably done in excess off 20 weeks worth of camping in the UK and overseas in that time and its been absolutely brilliant. Tell him to sit down, work out a wish list by looking at what others have and go from there.
In my experience VWs are overrated overpriced unreliable pieces of s
te.
But if I had £10K to spend on a VW camper, it'd need careful checking for condition and I'm unsure about the London stuff, but I'd prefer this to the van conversion stuff :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-2-4-Diesel-Volkswa...
te.But if I had £10K to spend on a VW camper, it'd need careful checking for condition and I'm unsure about the London stuff, but I'd prefer this to the van conversion stuff :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-2-4-Diesel-Volkswa...
Forget VWs. You can get a Renault Master / Vauxhall Vivaro for a lot less and they're a very good base for a conversion.
Although, I'll just recommend what I have.
Toyota Alphard (or the similar Nissan Elgrand) - you can buy a fresh Japanese import with around 60k miles on it, install LPG, convert to a camper and have change from £12k.
(The Toyota has a 3.0 V6 and the Nissan a 3.6 V6)
Loads more kit / comfort and refinement than a VW, Renault or Ford van.
Although, I'll just recommend what I have.
Toyota Alphard (or the similar Nissan Elgrand) - you can buy a fresh Japanese import with around 60k miles on it, install LPG, convert to a camper and have change from £12k.
(The Toyota has a 3.0 V6 and the Nissan a 3.6 V6)
Loads more kit / comfort and refinement than a VW, Renault or Ford van.
Nigel Worc's said:
In my experience VWs are overrated overpriced unreliable pieces of ste.
But if I had £10K to spend on a VW camper, it'd need careful checking for condition and I'm unsure about the London stuff, but I'd prefer this to the van conversion stuff :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-2-4-Diesel-Volkswa...
Can't take them into many car parks, and they are charged a significant premium on ferries and the Channel Tunnel.te.But if I had £10K to spend on a VW camper, it'd need careful checking for condition and I'm unsure about the London stuff, but I'd prefer this to the van conversion stuff :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T4-2-4-Diesel-Volkswa...
Also lumbering and slow.
Alright if you want to chug along the motorways and park up for weeks at a time - if you want to get out and travel, a van, rather than coach built motorhome, is a much better idea.
This is ours.
A diesel but come in all sorts of petrol varieties including aircooled and water.
Photo from last years trip to france, taking in Normandy beaches, Britton, Vannes, Carnac, Loire Valley region, le man, Versailles, champagne and the somme, over a month.
Do around 5-9k a year normally and rarely have an issue. Choose a rust free one and can even convert cheaply to a tdi/pd/aaz or even a porsche/subaru engine if you please.
Still fairly sensibly priced, especially when you look at the ridiculous t4/t5 prices.
Totally depends what he wants to get out of it.
Our camper is pretty much our life, in terms of its our passion and hobby and we have met a lot of wonderful people along the way.
Not to say you wouldn't in say...a transit etc type van but personally not really for me.
Heres a small selection of that vans from all over Europe we saw over that month, most notably the white panel van who was a young guy who travelled from Germany, into Belgium and through France to holiday with his girlfriend and her parents in Barcelona. That had been converted to a mk2 gti engine
Edited by GTIAlex on Wednesday 31st May 19:34
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