Discussion
TameRacingDriver said:
That is disturbing.
For everything in life - there is a sacrifice to be made. Want to be the best golfer, footballer etc? - then spend years and years honing your game at any waking opportunity. Want to be at the top of your profession - then you'll no doubt spend hours and hours (over and above working a 9 to 5) training, reading and learning at the sacrifice your family or social life in order to attain it.Nothing wrong with soldiers that only want to work 9 to 5 as every business needs soldiers - with a caveat. Don't complain that you're not progressing financially without wanting to make any sacrifices to your time / work ethic.
Timmy40 said:
Isn't it a bit soon to judge as by definition the oldest millennials are only just 17? The NEETS etc are the Noughties who grew up under Fony Bliar. Its that lot that ironically love Corbyn. The millennials can't vote yet.
That isn't what a "Millenial" is The commonly accepted definition of a "Millenial" is those who "came of age" at or around the turn of the millenium. So its broadly aimed at those of us born between about 1982-1987, who entered the workforce in around the year 2000
Pothole said:
RDMcG said:
I do think that things are much tougher than when I was young..graduated fro university in 1970 and there was a growing world with a lot of optimism. I had choices of jobs. Proper pensions were the norm, health care was more accessible. job changes were far fewer, and housing was relatively affordable. No rose coloured glasses.
Today, the millenneais face the deterioration of social services, housing they cannot afford, deteriorated pensions, low job security, constant erosion of the formerly middle class jobs due more to automation that export, and a fully globalized economy. They also face the massively ageing population of their predecessors who are disobliging healthy but who will consume most of their assets as they age and need medical care.
Yes there are silly issues of self entitlement, but underlying this is a very serious issue about being able to be self sufficient and independent. I have some sympathy.
The ideal way to approach that is definitely by getting a worthless degree, avoiding hard work and flopping about whinging about everything while taking advice on almost everything from vacuous "celebrities" then...I can see that. NOT! Oh, and let's not forget self interest and absorption to narcissistic levels.Today, the millenneais face the deterioration of social services, housing they cannot afford, deteriorated pensions, low job security, constant erosion of the formerly middle class jobs due more to automation that export, and a fully globalized economy. They also face the massively ageing population of their predecessors who are disobliging healthy but who will consume most of their assets as they age and need medical care.
Yes there are silly issues of self entitlement, but underlying this is a very serious issue about being able to be self sufficient and independent. I have some sympathy.
But there you go.
Candellara said:
For everything in life - there is a sacrifice to be made. Want to be the best golfer, footballer etc? - then spend years and years honing your game at any waking opportunity. Want to be at the top of your profession - then you'll no doubt spend hours and hours (over and above working a 9 to 5) training, reading and learning at the sacrifice your family or social life in order to attain it.
Nothing wrong with soldiers that only want to work 9 to 5 as every business needs soldiers - with a caveat. Don't complain that you're not progressing financially without wanting to make any sacrifices to your time / work ethic
You shouldn't need to make massive sacrifices to get further in a company. I know lots who just do a bit above the norm/minimum (50-60hrs a week) and do quite welll, get promotions etc.Nothing wrong with soldiers that only want to work 9 to 5 as every business needs soldiers - with a caveat. Don't complain that you're not progressing financially without wanting to make any sacrifices to your time / work ethic
Pothole said:
The ideal way to approach that is definitely by getting a worthless degree, avoiding hard work and flopping about whinging about everything while taking advice on almost everything from vacuous "celebrities" then...I can see that. NOT! Oh, and let's not forget self interest and absorption to narcissistic levels.
Indeed! 
However I think it's worth commenting on the root cause of much of this narcissism, and that's people my age (forties) fawning over their children like little princes and princesses, constantly telling them how wonderful they are, preferring to befriend rather than parent their offspring, and jumping to their every whim whether its (yet another) lift somewhere (often at the behest of a curt text - Pick me up from Steves) or flushing the toilet for them. (Seriously, I was at someone's house a while back, went into the loo to find that the late teenage son had left the bowl full of s
t before returning to the darkness of his bedroom to play Minecraft till 4am. I mentioned it to the mum who just said 'well flush it then', as though it was the most natural thing in the world to deal with said teenager's turds for him rather than expect him to be able to manage basic toilet etiquette).So it's no surprise that many of them enter the world of commerce (after getting their degree in media studies/computer games design/photography/basket weaving) fully believing that the world should still be rotating smoothly around them.
Candellara said:
For everything in life - there is a sacrifice to be made. Want to be the best golfer, footballer etc? - then spend years and years honing your game at any waking opportunity. Want to be at the top of your profession - then you'll no doubt spend hours and hours (over and above working a 9 to 5) training, reading and learning at the sacrifice your family or social life in order to attain it.
Nothing wrong with soldiers that only want to work 9 to 5 as every business needs soldiers - with a caveat. Don't complain that you're not progressing financially without wanting to make any sacrifices to your time / work ethic.
I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but personally, I think having a machine that monitors how engaged you are in a meeting by listening to your voice is a little extreme, don't you? Somewhere along the line, someone forgot that we are actually human, not robots...Nothing wrong with soldiers that only want to work 9 to 5 as every business needs soldiers - with a caveat. Don't complain that you're not progressing financially without wanting to make any sacrifices to your time / work ethic.
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but personally, I think having a machine that monitors how engaged you are in a meeting by listening to your voice is a little extreme, don't you? Somewhere along the line, someone forgot that we are actually human, not robots...
Yes - that's total OTT. I think in relation to Millennials (bit of a broad brush that) - you get out of life what you put in.
That is true of sport / training / career / relationships - isn't it?
A few hour's here and there, coupled with a can do attitude / work ethic goes a long way
Shakermaker said:
That isn't what a "Millenial" is
The commonly accepted definition of a "Millenial" is those who "came of age" at or around the turn of the millenium. So its broadly aimed at those of us born between about 1982-1987, who entered the workforce in around the year 2000
Oh I see. In that case one observation I have is that millennial males are lucky because most of the female millennials seem quite happy to do things we only saw in rented dodgy German porn VHS videos back in the 80's. The commonly accepted definition of a "Millenial" is those who "came of age" at or around the turn of the millenium. So its broadly aimed at those of us born between about 1982-1987, who entered the workforce in around the year 2000
Candellara said:
TameRacingDriver said:
That is disturbing.
For everything in life - there is a sacrifice to be made. Want to be the best golfer, footballer etc? - then spend years and years honing your game at any waking opportunity. Want to be at the top of your profession - then you'll no doubt spend hours and hours (over and above working a 9 to 5) training, reading and learning at the sacrifice your family or social life in order to attain it.
scherzkeks said:
Natural ability/genetics plays a stronger role. I wouldn't mind being a top footballer, or a virtuoso on guitar. But I suspect that no matter how much work I put in, it won't matter much in the end.
You will be the best at the world at something.Sadly, not all of us know what that best thing is. Someone out there is the world's best toilet de-clogger, and they probably don't even know it.
(not you btw.. you're the best in the world at using the phrase cognitive dissonance
)scherzkeks said:
Candellara said:
TameRacingDriver said:
That is disturbing.
For everything in life - there is a sacrifice to be made. Want to be the best golfer, footballer etc? - then spend years and years honing your game at any waking opportunity. Want to be at the top of your profession - then you'll no doubt spend hours and hours (over and above working a 9 to 5) training, reading and learning at the sacrifice your family or social life in order to attain it.What's that old saying, 'spend half your working life climbing the greasy pole, and the second half wondering why you bothered'. Never a more offputting negative piece of wordcraft have I seen.
scherzkeks said:
Natural ability/genetics plays a stronger role. I wouldn't mind being a top footballer, or a virtuoso on guitar. But I suspect that no matter how much work I put in, it won't matter much in the end.
A good point which is easily and frequently forgotten, and it's probably a good job too. You can't be a leader unless you also have followers, and if you don't have the natural talent or ability to excel at your chosen field, you will never make it no matter how hard you try.For me personally, I have tried hard to progress in the various places I have worked, but it hasn't happened, presumably because there is someone who is more capable who gets picked before me, or because there is someone who is prepared (as said previously) to put in that bit extra effort and sacrifice other areas of their life to get ahead....
As I hit middle age, I am cool with that. I acknowledge my limitations and try and lead my life the best way I can with the abilities I have been given. I accept I won't ever be rich or successful or particularly amount to anything great, and in a way, its liberating to be able to recognise and accept that fact. I must admit though, it was a fact that I found difficult to accept when I was younger, but age has really mellowed me out. As such, I no longer work myself ragged trying to attain the unobtainable - don't get me wrong, I am happy to put the graft in as and when required, I can be a very hard worker, but the cliche of simply "work harder for more success" does not always guarantee the outcome you desire IME.
Aye, agree with 'born to it' view point, but it comes down to the nature vs nuture thing rather than flat genetics.
I'm a Millennial and most of my career success has come down to confidence, common sense and personality. Some would argue this is genetics, but upbringing plays a massive part in it. My old man was a tough bd when I was growing up and I think this has played a big part in my development.
There are probably 8-10 other Millennials in my business (construction industry, so a lot of old heads) and only one or two of them have any chance of climbing the ladder at any decent rate. The rest are flowers.
It isn't because they're lazy per se, but they don't tend to take the initiative and like to be spoon-fed information. That said, I reckon that applies to probably 75% of the industry so it is hardly a generation thing.
It's horses for courses really. I'm not the smartest, the most technical or the most methodical in my business, but I understand people and don't mind make the tough decisions. I'm a st engineer, but I'm a good manager of engineers.
I'm 30 years old and the most senior in my business (Director Level) of 60 people. Most of my staff are 40+ years old and are quite happy doing what they do, with no real desire to sacrifice their free time in exchange for a chance of stepping up. Most wouldn't even take the step up without the sacrifice, as they don't want the added responsibility or risk of failure that comes with it. They have other priorites, like family or hobbies. It's a mindset thing. My only concern in life at the minute is my career and I focus nearly all of my energy into that 5 days a week. No doubt, when I settle down and have kids, this will all change, but at the minute it is all about the job.
I'm a Millennial and most of my career success has come down to confidence, common sense and personality. Some would argue this is genetics, but upbringing plays a massive part in it. My old man was a tough b
d when I was growing up and I think this has played a big part in my development.There are probably 8-10 other Millennials in my business (construction industry, so a lot of old heads) and only one or two of them have any chance of climbing the ladder at any decent rate. The rest are flowers.
It isn't because they're lazy per se, but they don't tend to take the initiative and like to be spoon-fed information. That said, I reckon that applies to probably 75% of the industry so it is hardly a generation thing.
It's horses for courses really. I'm not the smartest, the most technical or the most methodical in my business, but I understand people and don't mind make the tough decisions. I'm a s
t engineer, but I'm a good manager of engineers.I'm 30 years old and the most senior in my business (Director Level) of 60 people. Most of my staff are 40+ years old and are quite happy doing what they do, with no real desire to sacrifice their free time in exchange for a chance of stepping up. Most wouldn't even take the step up without the sacrifice, as they don't want the added responsibility or risk of failure that comes with it. They have other priorites, like family or hobbies. It's a mindset thing. My only concern in life at the minute is my career and I focus nearly all of my energy into that 5 days a week. No doubt, when I settle down and have kids, this will all change, but at the minute it is all about the job.
Agree but don't forget there will be people who were in the same career progression as you and sidestepped or even stepped down due to redundancy or choice in their later career.
Not saying you will but you could have kids, hit 40 and we hit a recession and you take a hit happily. I know people like this who didn't burn out but due to circumstances ended up in a lower role elsewhere longterm
(Or went as a consultant/date rate).
Not saying you will but you could have kids, hit 40 and we hit a recession and you take a hit happily. I know people like this who didn't burn out but due to circumstances ended up in a lower role elsewhere longterm
(Or went as a consultant/date rate).
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Unfortunately the thread has been pulled but those that know will know what it's all about.
Someone who can't take responsibility for their own actions.
Unfortunately the thread has been pulled but those that know will know what it's all about.
Someone who can't take responsibility for their own actions.
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