Builder almost brought the house down..literally

Builder almost brought the house down..literally

Author
Discussion

Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Had an angry and sleepless night on behalf of my daughter who is having building work done, which has gone wrong on a major level. Would welcome advice on her next steps:

She and her partner bought an old three storey country house last month and has loads of work to do (heating, bathrooms, kitchen et al). Not wanting to take risks with the key work they employed a large and reputable (and expensive) local builder to do the key work, notably taking down a dividing wall to create a new kitchen diner. The builder sent a Structural engineer to do the building regs as they were taking out a 3m piece of the outside wall to connect the 3 storey house to an existing 2 storey extension to form the new kitchen dinner.

Work started this week on the wall and she had been warned that there might be some movement when the wall was removed. They knocked through and they had a number of smallish cracks appear in the plaster in rooms above the knock-through which the builders didnt seem worried about. They installed one of the 3 RSJs and left for the weekend with acrow props holding up the wall. Overnight the cracks got much larger and unble to contact the bulder she called another local bulder. It seems they hadn't put in enough props (4 single props only under the wall, not on needles through the wall), there were no cross braces on the acrows and they had used lengths of timber ( from the pictures it looks like lengths of lath). Their plumbr on site says at one point they had only once acrow in place during the work. It looks like they have lateral movement meaning doors and windows above dont now open/close properly. It also looks like they had taken the cheapest and easiert option with the RSJ which will lead to an obstrusive boxed in beam across the room when they could have used a method which produces a less obstrusive beam.


Her patner finally managed to get the builder out yesterday evening who admits the workmen haven't supported the wall fully and assured them that they will fix it.

They have asked the builder to have the structural engineer on site on Monday to give a report on the potential damge and outline repairs.

What else should they be doing and if the builder does move quickly and fix it all, what should they do.

She is already worried about unseen future problems and how she can protect about that.


Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Cogcog said:
Had an angry and sleepless night on behalf of my daughter who is having building work done, which has gone wrong on a major level. Would welcome advice on her next steps:

She and her partner bought an old three storey country house last month and has loads of work to do (heating, bathrooms, kitchen et al). Not wanting to take risks with the key work they employed a large and reputable (and expensive) local builder to do the key work, notably taking down a dividing wall to create a new kitchen diner. The builder sent a Structural engineer to do the building regs as they were taking out a 3m piece of the outside wall to connect the 3 storey house to an existing 2 storey extension to form the new kitchen dinner.

Work started this week on the wall and she had been warned that there might be some movement when the wall was removed. They knocked through and they had a number of smallish cracks appear in the plaster in rooms above the knock-through which the builders didnt seem worried about. They installed one of the 3 RSJs and left for the weekend with acrow props holding up the wall. Overnight the cracks got much larger and unble to contact the bulder she called another local bulder. It seems they hadn't put in enough props (4 single props only under the wall, not on needles through the wall), there were no cross braces on the acrows and they had used lengths of timber ( from the pictures it looks like lengths of lath). Their plumbr on site says at one point they had only once acrow in place during the work. It looks like they have lateral movement meaning doors and windows above dont now open/close properly. It also looks like they had taken the cheapest and easiert option with the RSJ which will lead to an obstrusive boxed in beam across the room when they could have used a method which produces a less obstrusive beam.


Her patner finally managed to get the builder out yesterday evening who admits the workmen haven't supported the wall fully and assured them that they will fix it.

They have asked the builder to have the structural engineer on site on Monday to give a report on the potential damge and outline repairs.

What else should they be doing and if the builder does not move quickly and fix it all, what should they do?

She is already worried about unseen future problems and how she can protect about that.

Swoxy

2,799 posts

209 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Notify insurer.

Notify bank.

Appoint own structural engineer.

Get out.

astroarcadia

1,710 posts

199 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Pictures?

If the builder has acknowledged the problem and the (independent?) SE is out on Monday it seems like all will be rectified.

What is the extent of the movement? Are we talking about hairline cracks in plaster or windows and doors not opening.

The position of the steel should have been agreed prior.

Edited by astroarcadia on Sunday 23 July 08:26

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Cogcog said:
It looks like they have lateral movement meaning doors and windows above dont now open/close properly.
astroarcadia said:
What is the extent of the movement? Are we talking about hairline cracks in plaster or windows and doors not opening.

Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all


These are from the first cracks. The builders bodged some cement in some of the larger ones . The bullder has suggested bringing the same guys back on site to fix it (one assume sthey are sub-contractors) or that she will have to wait until his men become free. She has told him to pull men off other jobs to get this done but that they are not to do anything other than make safe until the engineer has been to site and told them what to do.

She walked around the building with her baby in a sling, which is pretty scarey as they have left loose masonary and unsupported walls.

AWRacing

1,710 posts

224 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
We had a similar project last year which included taking out 4.5m of rear wall to extend lounge. Builder had priced for a drop down beam even though i'd drawn up and detailed a flat ceiling, they always go for the easiest option. This was corrected before any works started.

Anyway, we had the rear wall supported on acrows and strongboys for around 4 weeks without any movement (this was something both myself and my SE were extremely concerned about). Safe to say we didnt sleep in our bedroom, above props, until the steels were installed and set on padstones.

Sounds like the builder will sort it though, make sure he doesnt try to bill you though

Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all



Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Doors and windows wont open.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
We have had steels put in the year - one planned to be a flat ceiling the other simply not possible to do so a known drop down and again quoted in the price/in the drawings.


Out builder has always taken wall out and steep in on he same day - or make space for the steel and fit it then take remainder of the wall out. He point blank refuses to leave a haunted house on acrows over night.

As for he number of acrows one steel was 4m that easily had 8 or even 10 acrows all secured.


The 6m 400kg steel had a huge number of acrows.

Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
The contracts manager is saying the directors are on holiday and he cannot do anything until the boss comes home on Friday. My daughter's partner has told them all the trades are of site until the engineers report says it is safe and that the delays will be at their costs.

Seems she had asked for the flat ceiling but the builders said it wasnt possible, but likely it was more work and messing about.


dmsims

6,450 posts

266 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Scary!

Document and photograph everything

Record all important conversations

craste

1,222 posts

206 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
I'm having an extension at the moment and we are taking out the wall at the back of the house to open it up, this is my biggest fear, I saw DIY SOS recently and when I saw the amount of men (roughly 20) carrying the steel i thought bloody hell!
What surprised me next was the amount of acrows etc in the house, it was like a forest of acrows, a bit like this but about 3 rows of them.


They should have public liability in insurance or even better this:

Contract Works Insurance All Risks Cover For All Seasons

"Sometimes known as contract works insurance, contractor’s all risks insurance is an optional cover that can be added to a builders, or similar tradesman policy if you will be carrying out work on a contract site. This optional cover is designed to protect your business against a range of potential hazards that might occur with this type of work.

Contractors all risks cover can be added to your trade policy, and provides cover for any contract works, your own plant, tools and equipment, your employees’ tools, hired-in property and temporary buildings during construction."


Hopefully they have the above already.

Good luck!

Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
There is mortar in the drains and it looks like there are now cracks between the house and extension on the oustide wall. The survey had found historical settlement ( the houuse dates from 1860, extension 1890) but these are new (mortar falling out from lintels).

astroarcadia

1,710 posts

199 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Your daughter and her partner are saying the right things.

Let engineer visit site, issue report, discuss with directors on their return.

Sounds like the builder has subbed out this element of the work and it's gone woefully wrong. Also sounds like they will put right at their expense with their own labour.

Your daughter walking around the site with a baby in a sling is as much her responsibility as theirs - no building site is safe for children.


Cogcog

Original Poster:

11,800 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
She has 3 electricians and 5 plumbers on site who are having to be sent home unless they can work at the far end of the house in safety.

Should the Health and Safety Exec. be involved about the way they created this risk to others on the site. They have pictures of the acrows left, but the p;lumber says at one pointt they only had one acrow.

This is what they left:



This is what went on in the week:






Edited by Cogcog on Sunday 23 July 09:34

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Personally I'd be checking into a Premier Inn or friends/family spare bedroom given those pics.


037

1,315 posts

146 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Whoever is responsible for doing this work doesn't know what they are doing.

Simpo Two

85,148 posts

264 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
I'm no engineer but shouldn't there be another steel or some form of suport under the other line of bricks? Looks like they could fall down at any moment.

When I had my fireplace enlarged (about 3' wide) they tapped in bits of slate to act as wedges between bricks and new lintel - have you got any of those?

rog007

5,748 posts

223 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Is the building insured?

Are the builders insured?

Swap insurance details.

Good luck!