Lift buttons and jews
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
I'm no theologist, but at that point, he wasn't the Christian God. He was the Jewish God, who later got borrowed by Christians and then by Muslims. Just three stops on the same timeline.
I'm sure those "moral" Christian missionaries were happy to quote old testament fire and brimstone from the pulpit. By way of a declaration of interests, my mother's family were not very observant Jews of Russian descent, who ended up in this country as a result of the Tsar's soldiers habit of using Jewish villages for sabre practice. My dad was English, from quite a church going family, and a reluctant choirboy.
At home we used to refer to the Hasidic Jews as 'Cowboys' and had no contact with them. It was synagogue only for weddings and funerals. My mum once shoved a frying pan full of bacon in the fridge when a rabbi we knew unexpectedly turned up, hoping he wouldn't recognise the smell.
However, I can't help having a sneaky admiration for the ultra orthodox. The religion is founded on the Ten Commandments, which, as a way to lead your life isn't all bad, even though one or two of the commandments are a bit flakey. In fact, it's hard to think of a better one. One of these commandments, the fourth one, instructs Jews to keep the sabbath holy. Now, one day a week off work doesn't seem all bad to me, and the jury is out (personally) as to whether Sunday trading has been a benifit to society or not.
Over the course of many centuries Jews have wondered about what exactly this commandment means. So they have gone to their rabbi (or teacher) to ask how best to obey it. One of the accepted answers has been not to do any work on the sabbath. But what exactly is work?
Well, using a tool could certainly be construed as work, so unsurprisingly that got put on the list of proscribed things. All well and good if you were a carpenter in the old days - you just left the hammer and the saw alone. But life has got increasingly technological, and we are left to decide if things like lifts and fridges are tools or not. Orthodox Jews have decided that they are.
It is all very logical really. Once you go off in that particular direction logic alone can lead you into some pretty bizarre situations. I have respect for them in sticking to their guns like this, however. They do have some other quite extraordinary rules, but there are always reasons for them. And this is all about regulating their own lives, they don't try to proscelitise and influence others.
To me, it's all part of life's rich pageant.
After the sermon, here is a joke.
Rabbi Bernstein was watching the TV one evening and there was a cooking show on. The chef was preparing a suckling pig with all the trimmings. The Rabbi was surprised to find his mouth watering at the sight, and everybody seemed to be enjoying it very much. For days he couldn't get it out of his mind.
So one evening he put on his overcoat, the one with the high turned up collar, pulled his hat down over his head, and set off to a Greek restaurant he had noticed, right on the other side of town, where surely nobody from his congregation was likely to go.
He ordered a suckling pig, and was very impressed when it arrived, crackling crispy and glistening, apple in its mouth and delicious vegetables arranged all round.
At that moment, he was horrified to see a family from his congregation come in through the restaurant door. They recognised their Rabbi and looked in horror at what was on the table in front of him.
"What do you think of this place?" asked the Rabbi. "Order a baked apple and this is how they serve it!"
At home we used to refer to the Hasidic Jews as 'Cowboys' and had no contact with them. It was synagogue only for weddings and funerals. My mum once shoved a frying pan full of bacon in the fridge when a rabbi we knew unexpectedly turned up, hoping he wouldn't recognise the smell.
However, I can't help having a sneaky admiration for the ultra orthodox. The religion is founded on the Ten Commandments, which, as a way to lead your life isn't all bad, even though one or two of the commandments are a bit flakey. In fact, it's hard to think of a better one. One of these commandments, the fourth one, instructs Jews to keep the sabbath holy. Now, one day a week off work doesn't seem all bad to me, and the jury is out (personally) as to whether Sunday trading has been a benifit to society or not.
Over the course of many centuries Jews have wondered about what exactly this commandment means. So they have gone to their rabbi (or teacher) to ask how best to obey it. One of the accepted answers has been not to do any work on the sabbath. But what exactly is work?
Well, using a tool could certainly be construed as work, so unsurprisingly that got put on the list of proscribed things. All well and good if you were a carpenter in the old days - you just left the hammer and the saw alone. But life has got increasingly technological, and we are left to decide if things like lifts and fridges are tools or not. Orthodox Jews have decided that they are.
It is all very logical really. Once you go off in that particular direction logic alone can lead you into some pretty bizarre situations. I have respect for them in sticking to their guns like this, however. They do have some other quite extraordinary rules, but there are always reasons for them. And this is all about regulating their own lives, they don't try to proscelitise and influence others.
To me, it's all part of life's rich pageant.
After the sermon, here is a joke.
Rabbi Bernstein was watching the TV one evening and there was a cooking show on. The chef was preparing a suckling pig with all the trimmings. The Rabbi was surprised to find his mouth watering at the sight, and everybody seemed to be enjoying it very much. For days he couldn't get it out of his mind.
So one evening he put on his overcoat, the one with the high turned up collar, pulled his hat down over his head, and set off to a Greek restaurant he had noticed, right on the other side of town, where surely nobody from his congregation was likely to go.
He ordered a suckling pig, and was very impressed when it arrived, crackling crispy and glistening, apple in its mouth and delicious vegetables arranged all round.
At that moment, he was horrified to see a family from his congregation come in through the restaurant door. They recognised their Rabbi and looked in horror at what was on the table in front of him.
"What do you think of this place?" asked the Rabbi. "Order a baked apple and this is how they serve it!"
Coincidentally I was watching this yesterday, a few "Hard J's" being dropped in this thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIS7qAWeaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIS7qAWeaA
Religion is up there with the second amendment in the "If it is old it cannot be changed" stakes, a lot of this country have evolved away from religion but if you are stuck with it then thats a bit st, 2000 odd year old ideas and customs dont really work today so you end up with the ludicrous situation of a group of grown men not able to press a life button as it has been decided it constitutes work.
I can understand keeping a day of rest but thats taking it too far, dont do your day job, you arent going to hell as it doesn't exist and I think there are more pressing matters than pressing lift buttons, the rest of us manage just fine, perhaps back off on the daft stuff and concentrate on the good bits that come with your religion ? I suspect a lot is down to being in a group, got to keep your credentials as devout whatever up, bet they all sneakily go round pressing buttons when nobody is watching.
I can understand keeping a day of rest but thats taking it too far, dont do your day job, you arent going to hell as it doesn't exist and I think there are more pressing matters than pressing lift buttons, the rest of us manage just fine, perhaps back off on the daft stuff and concentrate on the good bits that come with your religion ? I suspect a lot is down to being in a group, got to keep your credentials as devout whatever up, bet they all sneakily go round pressing buttons when nobody is watching.
Nanook said:
kowalski655 said:
And the untold number of babies drowned so 600 year old Noah could live! Nice chap
I love the story of Noah, it's my favourite bible story.God speaks to him, tells him to build a boat. So he does, single handedly. At this point he's over 500 years old. Then he fills it with animals, 2 of each species. How do they all fit? How does he collect them all? What do they eat?
Then bobs about he earth for 40 days and 40 nights, none of the animals appear to eat or kill each other, they all seem to survive.
He then repopulates the earth with his wife, 3 sons, and each of their wives, then lives to be over 950 years old, and also becomes the world's first alcoholic.
What a story!
Ive posted this before I think but a good take on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZHJF0Ln5gk
R8Steve said:
jonnydm said:
R8Steve said:
It all seems like a bizarre and unmanageable way of life IMO. I'd never heard of such a thing before this thread admittedly.
What happens if they set off a motion sensor for a light/door?
Very manageable if you grew up with it and are used to it. Certainly much harder to those who want to take it on later in life. What happens if they set off a motion sensor for a light/door?
One would avoid intentionally setting off a motion sensor, though walking past a house and triggering isn't intentional so not an issue.
As mentioned previously by others, Fridge lights triggered by opening / closing the door are switched off (by tape or magnets).
I had a look to see what 'melakhah' prohibits and can't see how pressing a button on an elevator fits into this though?
Recent developments in technology such as LEDs, sold state devices have been similarly discussed though more academically as the status quo of Orthodoxy will not be changing.
RTB said:
Just finished reading the wiki article linked above and it's certainly eye opening, as well as interesting. The question that kept popping into my mind was what are the consequences of not following these rather barmy edicts?
The realisation that absolutely nothing changes and it's been a massive con from the get go.That's probably the worst that'll happen.
This thread has been quite enlightening, as I didn't know anything about the 'no work on the sabbath' thing at all. Interestingly though, I fitted a dish washer fairly recently that had kosher fitting instructions. I'm still confused as to what that is!
On a different note, but Jew related, we live behind a cow field. Over the last 3 or 4 years, during the summer, we've witnessed groups of Hasidic Jews passing through the field and chasing the cows. Quite surreal.
On a different note, but Jew related, we live behind a cow field. Over the last 3 or 4 years, during the summer, we've witnessed groups of Hasidic Jews passing through the field and chasing the cows. Quite surreal.
Colonial said:
I guess this thread just proves that fundamentalist atheists are just as arrogant, self absorbed and unpleasant as all other strict followers of a belief system.
I'd hardly call people taking the piss out of silly beliefs, the same as people cutting and sucking on baby penises due to their belief.http://healthland.time.com/2012/06/07/how-11-new-y...
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