Chauffeurs - what's the deal?

[JulianPH]

singlecoil said:

TopGear7 said:

Thanks for the replies so far all. Very interesting. I did wonder how these super wealthy/important trust all their goings on, whereabouts and family members with a what is stranger driving them about, but the ex army etc makes sense.

Rich people learn from an early age that they either have to do stuff themselves (like the rest of us) or have someone else do it for them (their preferred method). The cost of that is having to trust their employees and learn to live without the personal privacy that most people are accustomed to.

For instance, if they are on a mobile in the back of the Bentley, they learn not to care whether you are listening.

Not true at all.

Both my drivers are highly trusted and respect goes in both directions. They know pretty much everything about my business activities and personal/family life.

I trust them emphatically with the care a security of my wife and daughter (who has know them both as being part of the family all of her life - twelve years and counting).

They bring their family round for drinks, bbq's and swimming and we frequently discuss business. I look after them and treat them with the utmost respect and loyalty and they do the same for me.

This is how it works with professional people working for one family. Unless you are working for some complete cock or a criminal, I guess.

It is also about needing to utilise your time efficiently, not about wanting others to do things for you just for the sake of it.

[JulianPH]

V8 FOU said:

Interesting thread.
The only thing I might find irritating is I guess that in a lot of cases you are regarded as being in a servile position?

You would be surprised. Both parties rely heavily of the other. My drivers rely on me financially (both now and in retirement) and for good job satisfaction - and I rely on them for their trust and discretion as well as their work.

Our relationships have developed over a decade and a half of working together and watching each other's kids grow up. If there was any degree of servitude this simply would not work.

I imagine there are some people out there who look on it as a master and servant relationship, but they won't be able to keep a professional driver for long with that attitude and so will never build up trust.

[singlecoil]

JulianPH said:

singlecoil said:

TopGear7 said:

Thanks for the replies so far all. Very interesting. I did wonder how these super wealthy/important trust all their goings on, whereabouts and family members with a what is stranger driving them about, but the ex army etc makes sense.

Rich people learn from an early age that they either have to do stuff themselves (like the rest of us) or have someone else do it for them (their preferred method). The cost of that is having to trust their employees and learn to live without the personal privacy that most people are accustomed to.

For instance, if they are on a mobile in the back of the Bentley, they learn not to care whether you are listening.

Not true at all...

Which part of what I said do you feel to be untrue? Or did you mean not true for you?

[Sheepshanks]

craigjm said:

Definitely loads round there. Usually black S class or 7 series although a few weeks ago I noticed an Arabic family leaving the Mayfair hotel in a fleet of seven black XJ autobiography all with consecutive private number plates

We have a very distant family member who runs the UK house for an Arab family, and her husband is in theory their driver, but when they come to the UK so many of them arrive that his job is mostly managing other drivers. They seem to have a pretty nice life as the family is hardly ever here.

[Vaud]

JulianPH said:

Not true at all.

Both my drivers are highly trusted and respect goes in both directions. They know pretty much everything about my business activities and personal/family life.

I trust them emphatically with the care a security of my wife and daughter (who has know them both as being part of the family all of her life - twelve years and counting).

They bring their family round for drinks, bbq's and swimming and we frequently discuss business. I look after them and treat them with the utmost respect and loyalty and they do the same for me.

This is how it works with professional people working for one family. Unless you are working for some complete cock or a criminal, I guess.

It is also about needing to utilise your time efficiently, not about wanting others to do things for you just for the sake of it.

Quite,

And having inside information is one thing, being able to use it effectively is another (unless you are just spying for cash)

[hyphen]

A different and boring angle away from the rich family stories.

A CFO of a FTSE 100 company I did work for had a Chauffeur and S-class paid for by the company.

He had a lot of meetings/big 5 jollies outside the hq, and was just more efficient to not have to find parking and so on and he could read/make calls in the car.

I suspect a lot of execs in similar positions may be the same, especially if on outskirts of London so often travelling in for meetings.

Edited by hyphen on Sunday 14th January 12:46

[JulianPH]

singlecoil said:

JulianPH said:

singlecoil said:

TopGear7 said:

Thanks for the replies so far all. Very interesting. I did wonder how these super wealthy/important trust all their goings on, whereabouts and family members with a what is stranger driving them about, but the ex army etc makes sense.

Rich people learn from an early age that they either have to do stuff themselves (like the rest of us) or have someone else do it for them (their preferred method). The cost of that is having to trust their employees and learn to live without the personal privacy that most people are accustomed to.

For instance, if they are on a mobile in the back of the Bentley, they learn not to care whether you are listening.

Not true at all...

Which part of what I said do you feel to be untrue? Or did you mean not true for you?

I was replying to you and TopGear7 (hence including both of your posts) not just you and talking about the not wanting to do stuff themselves bit (i.e. it is about maximising the use of time), the fact that these people are not strangers in the slightest.

Hands up though, I did misread you saying "learn not to care whether you are listening" as "learn to take care whether you are listening", so sorry for that.

There is no cost in including trusted professions within your circle of privacy and you don't lose your personal privacy either. I would say you have a much greater loss of privacy when you have, for example, an au pair living in your house.

[MHT223]

I owned a chauffeur company many years (sold it last year) with 85% of work in central London. The majority of work (unless one is working directly for a family) is within a 2 mile radius of Claridge's.

The word chauffeur is kind of a catch all term, as a previous poster pointed out the barrier is pretty low. To be considered top end on the main circuit in London (excluding RR / Bentley work) it would only apply to companies / individuals running S-Class and V-Class vehicles who are changing the cars at two years old mark. Charge our rate would be between £40-£55ph on average.

Then you've got the next level down who buy the cars at two years old and run them to five years. Lower grade clientele so they can't justify the expense of new cars. Less experienced chauffeurs. Charge out rate £25-£35 per hour. I'd say this makes up the majority of 'chauffeurs' in London. After that you've basically got exec mini cabs drivers in S-Class and 7s.

Top end chauffeurs working on their own (either for a private individual or self-employed with their own car) would be making between £60-£100k on the London circuit. To compete at that level though you'd typically need five years of top tier experience to get to know not only the places you need to go but how to interact with the people paying £400/£500 a day for a car and chauffeur.

As to the type of client we would typically have FTSE100 / S&P100 C-level corporate clients. Some with their own private security some with private jet(s) or a PJ if you are in the know. Also latterly did a lot of media work and UHNW. There was one year (maybe 2012?!) and of the top ten Forbes richest people in the world we were looking after the children of three of these individuals when they were in London.

Glad to be out of the industry to be honest.

[Ari]

MHT223 said:

companies / individuals running S-Class and V-Class vehicles who are changing the cars at two years old mark. Charge our rate would be between £40-£55ph on average.

At £40/hour you must have to keep that car extraordinarily busy just to keep up with depreciation once you've removed from that £40 hourly rate the cost of the bod up front to drive it, and all the associated costs such as insurance, maintenance, tyres, cleaning, etc etc etc. And that's before you then run the business (an office presumably, a yard to park them in maybe?)

A boggo S Class is what, £80K? What's it worth after two years of chauffeur work, half that? Less? I guess a chauffeur hire car must clock up the miles, not many people are going to pay for a car and just leave it sat still presumably?

How many miles do they have at that point out of interest?

[crankedup]

Thankyou4calling said:

TopGear7 said:

I'm in London quite often and recently have been frequenting certain areas where chauffeur driven cars appear to be everywhere. What stands out is the majority of the time these guys are sat in the cars watching TV, on their phone or buffing the bonnet with a cloth.

Are these guys employed solely by that client. So they could literally just sit there for hours on end waiting around?

What type of business are these people generally in who require chauffeurs on hand all day long? I'm intrigued due to the sheer volume of them all congregate in largely the same areas and streets.

Which areas are you referring to where you say chauffeur driven cars are everywhere?

How many cars (honestly) are there.

I live in Chelsea and on a match day my street has chauffeur driven cars “Everywhere” today I counted them. There were 7!

Chelsea FC playing at home?

[NDA]

TopGear7 said:

I'm in London quite often and recently have been frequenting certain areas where chauffeur driven cars appear to be everywhere. What stands out is the majority of the time these guys are sat in the cars watching TV, on their phone or buffing the bonnet with a cloth.

Are these guys employed solely by that client. So they could literally just sit there for hours on end waiting around?

What type of business are these people generally in who require chauffeurs on hand all day long? I'm intrigued due to the sheer volume of them all congregate in largely the same areas and streets.

I've never had a driver, but I know several friends who have them... they go with the job (in my case, media). The drivers get to keep the car at weekends, pick the boss up at 6.30am, take him home at 7pm and run him around London for lunch and meetings, airports etc. In my chum's example, they are employed by their companies and work exclusively for that individual.

As Julian mentioned, this is not a master/slave relationship, but more like respectful colleagues. Over years it can turn into close friendships.

In even more rarified air, there are pilots and jets employed and used exclusively by an individual too.

[grumpy52]

Did a bit back in the 80s , all middle eastern oil families.
Take the males to meetings
and then the wives shopping.
I drove and we had a minder/ bodyguard with us .
The minder spent most of their time keeping track of the stuff the women were buying and paying for it .
Ours was more of a security company , boss was ex special branch and was involved in looking after the visiting negotiation sheikhs during the OPEC meetings in the 70s and early 80s.
They put me through several driving courses for evasive and anti hi-jack stuff .
I never did get to use a Rolls or Bently as a battering ram , just some old xj's or granadas on the courses .
Hate driving in a suit and luckily never had to drive in any type of hat .
The families can be incredibly generous but some can be very demanding .

[MHT223]

Ari said:

At £40/hour you must have to keep that car extraordinarily busy just to keep up with depreciation once you've removed from that £40 hourly rate the cost of the bod up front to drive it, and all the associated costs such as insurance, maintenance, tyres, cleaning, etc etc etc. And that's before you then run the business (an office presumably, a yard to park them in maybe?)

A boggo S Class is what, £80K? What's it worth after two years of chauffeur work, half that? Less? I guess a chauffeur hire car must clock up the miles, not many people are going to pay for a car and just leave it sat still presumably?

How many miles do they have at that point out of interest?

Ex-police driver (retired Class 1/2) can retire at 50ish with a full pension. You'd pay them around £12-£15ph. No need to do guaranteed hours there are a number of people out there that just want to do a few days a week.

You can contract hire a new S-Class with AMG kit / pano roof / rear exec pack direct from Mercedes for c. £1250+VAT a month. Slightly less for a V-Class. Insurance £1750 per car per year. That's only five decent days work a month to cover costs after paying driver and fuel. 24/7 serviced private office near Heathrow with parking and a safe in the office for drivers to collect / drop off keys was £500pcm.

Decent chauffeur work doesn't incur mileage. As pointed out above it is mainly sitting around. The best job two years ago the driver did 0.25 miles in 9 hours. Tyres will last c. 18k on an S-Class. £800 for set. Average mileage per car is 20k PA, that was mostly driving in and out of the base near Heathrow to then do eight miles in W1 then 20 miles back to Heathrow.

Regional chauffeurs can easily do 40k/50k PA - personally I had not interest in that work.

[AstonZagato]

I’ve never had a driver but have come close.

I was offered a job at one of the banks in Canary Wharf. 16 hour days and a long commute. The only realistic way would have been to hire a driver. I decided I didn’t want the job though.

I did have a close working relationship with one driver. When I first moved to the country, he would pick me up from the local taxi firm and run me to the airport. I’d ask for him by name. He then moved to a chauffeur firm (2-5 year old E Classes). My business followed him. He struck out on his own. Again I followed him. Eventually that business imploded, his kid committed suicide, he had a breakdown, he attempted suicide. I got him to drive me in my car. I employed his wife to do odd jobs for us and the school run for my son. I lent him the money to buy another chauffeuring car. Got him back on his feet. He started driving me again. I only really needed airport runs two or three time a week. Couldn’t justify any more than that.

Sadly, ill health caught up with him. He retired to Cornwall but died on;y a year or two later.

[singlecoil]

JulianPH said:

singlecoil said:

JulianPH said:

singlecoil said:

TopGear7 said:

Thanks for the replies so far all. Very interesting. I did wonder how these super wealthy/important trust all their goings on, whereabouts and family members with a what is stranger driving them about, but the ex army etc makes sense.

Rich people learn from an early age that they either have to do stuff themselves (like the rest of us) or have someone else do it for them (their preferred method). The cost of that is having to trust their employees and learn to live without the personal privacy that most people are accustomed to.

For instance, if they are on a mobile in the back of the Bentley, they learn not to care whether you are listening.

Not true at all...

Which part of what I said do you feel to be untrue? Or did you mean not true for you?

I was replying to you and TopGear7 (hence including both of your posts) not just you and talking about the not wanting to do stuff themselves bit (i.e. it is about maximising the use of time), the fact that these people are not strangers in the slightest.

Hands up though, I did misread you saying "learn not to care whether you are listening" as "learn to take care whether you are listening", so sorry for that.

There is no cost in including trusted professions within your circle of privacy and you don't lose your personal privacy either. I would say you have a much greater loss of privacy when you have, for example, an au pair living in your house.

It's clear that you are a man of means, and it's clear that you have a great relationship with your staff. Such relationships are not the norm, though, and as I was speaking about what most domestic staff experience I stand by what I said.

I think also that too much has been read into my comment about not wanting to do stuff themselves. It doesn't have any extra meaning. When I have someone else wash my car I am getting him to do something I don't want to do myself. When I've been employed to cut grass or drive a car that equally was something my employer didn't want to do himself.

[Yipper]

Use a third-party, faux-important limo service most days for work. Airports, meetings, etc. They are just posh taxi drivers who don't like the social stigma of sitting outside a railway station waiting for poor people. They'd rather sit outside a big house waiting for rich people.

Making small chat on rides, you typically find the driver will make £20-40k salary + tips a year, while the big boss who "owns" the fleet of multiple cars will make £2-6k net profit per car or driver.

It's a tough, overcrowded industry where, as others have said, a £100 Next suit and 5yo Merc will get you up and running in no time at all. You have to be prepared for ultra-early starts, short-notice changes of schedule, rude clients who think they're special, and long hours of sitting around alone doing nothing.

[JulianPH]

AstonZagato said:

I’ve never had a driver but have come close.

I was offered a job at one of the banks in Canary Wharf. 16 hour days and a long commute. The only realistic way would have been to hire a driver. I decided I didn’t want the job though.

I did have a close working relationship with one driver. When I first moved to the country, he would pick me up from the local taxi firm and run me to the airport. I’d ask for him by name. He then moved to a chauffeur firm (2-5 year old E Classes). My business followed him. He struck out on his own. Again I followed him. Eventually that business imploded, his kid committed suicide, he had a breakdown, he attempted suicide. I got him to drive me in my car. I employed his wife to do odd jobs for us and the school run for my son. I lent him the money to buy another chauffeuring car. Got him back on his feet. He started driving me again. I only really needed airport runs two or three time a week. Couldn’t justify any more than that.

Sadly, ill health caught up with him. He retired to Cornwall but died on;y a year or two later.

Whist that is a very sorry experience Zegato, it does highlight what I have been saying. The relationship with a good driver and family is just that, a relationship. Drivers look after their employer and good employees looks after their driver to the same degree.

Both my drivers are two of my best mates and I have looked after them in ways employers generally do not look after employees. The relationship becomes very close knit and mutually respected/trusted.

This is obviously me speaking from my experience.

[silverfoxcc]

Ref my earlier post about experience. I got a p/t job with a local guy who had a very large and 'well known' customer base
Brief was
you drove to their place , normally the house. Get in their car.ferry them to a do, or meeting wait a few hours, sometimespour them in the car drive them home

paid a pittance but i liked driving and getting paid for sleeping was a plus!!


Good points

meeting lots of people you wouldnt normally meet
Tipping was 99% of the time
chatting on a one to one basis.
Getting to shows on a 'spare' ticket

Bad points

Being treated like st by the odd one or two One especially was a bit of a jack the lad, had to take him from home, saying goodbye to wife ,and the only conversation was the address. seeing him disappear inside with a bottle and emerging 30min later with a 'tart' on his arm. Then talking to me like i was his best mate. Once she had bee dropped off, back to 'take me home'
Never gave a tip or said goodnight and always wanted the driver to wear his hat. This ewas specified on job spec

doing the Acot week and 'respectfully asking if i could just 'n'ip home to feed the dog,. always permitted, so i am at home watching thr racing on the tele and just chilling, then back to the course to picjk them up

Several good dits over the years

[MHT223]

JulianPH said:

Whist that is a very sorry experience Zegato, it does highlight what I have been saying. The relationship with a good driver and family is just that, a relationship. Drivers look after their employer and good employees looks after their driver to the same degree.

Both my drivers are two of my best mates and I have looked after them in ways employers generally do not look after employees. The relationship becomes very close knit and mutually respected/trusted.

This is obviously me speaking from my experience.

Agree with this 100%. There aren't many situations where two unmarried people spend so much time talking one-on-one with each another and see so many parts of their respective lives as with a principal and their driver / CP

[singlecoil]

MHT223 said:

JulianPH said:

Whist that is a very sorry experience Zegato, it does highlight what I have been saying. The relationship with a good driver and family is just that, a relationship. Drivers look after their employer and good employees looks after their driver to the same degree.

Both my drivers are two of my best mates and I have looked after them in ways employers generally do not look after employees. The relationship becomes very close knit and mutually respected/trusted.

This is obviously me speaking from my experience.

Agree with this 100%. There aren't many situations where two unmarried people spend so much time talking one-on-one with each another and see so many parts of their respective lives as with a principal and their driver / CP

What is being portrayed here is the ideal situation. It's not like that for most chauffeurs in private employment. I can remember one full time chap who had a good position with a family, even had his own cottage on the country estate when the family were there instead of their London residence. Been with them for about six years and when they didn't need him anymore he was made redundant and that was the end of it. He was still upset about it when I met him a few months later.