life contentment, chasing the money....
Discussion
MrOrange said:
I suspect that’s slightly mismatched and misquoted.
There is some quite serious, but subjective, research that measures “happiness vs income” which suggests that increasing ones income past about £50k does not bring a whole load of extra happiness as it can start to overly trade cash vs free time. But it is subjective, and happiness is difficult to measure outside of the absence of misery caused by financial stress.
The second paragraph seems like opinionated b
ks
It doesn’t really matter how much you earn, your happiness is pretty much based on your mindset and outlook and how you interact with other people and how you use your time.There is some quite serious, but subjective, research that measures “happiness vs income” which suggests that increasing ones income past about £50k does not bring a whole load of extra happiness as it can start to overly trade cash vs free time. But it is subjective, and happiness is difficult to measure outside of the absence of misery caused by financial stress.
The second paragraph seems like opinionated b
ksPeople are animals, what makes us happy and well balanced is the kind of cooperative behaviour that would make our pack or tribe flourish. Once you have your basic needs met like shelter and food etc, money doesn’t make people any happier.
Money can only really make people, happier by using it to help others, there’s a basic reward triggered in your brain when you engage in cooperative behaviour, in having children and protecting our families and old people and interacting with humans rather than your iPad, stuff like doing exercise and seeing friends and helping people makes us feel good. Collecting stuff and keeping up with the Neighbours and shutting ourselves away from others in big houses doesn’t.
Simply being able to buy stuff or better stuff is all short term reward and doesn’t lead to contentment. If you always want loads of stuff and are concerned about your perceived status then there will always be people more well off and have better stuff.
If you’re easily stressed or suffer from depression or are very shallow and materialistic etc, this will likely be the case at most levels in your employment and life in general. Although you can moderate your outlook by yourself or even with help through things like cognitive behavioural therapy, it’s often difficult to change your mindset. It’s often helpful to make a list of how you spend your time, split it into two columns one for rewarding behaviour one for depleting behaviour. It can often point to imbalances in your life. If the rewarding behaviour is all work and wanting stuff there may be something wrong, if it’s all sitting around doing nothing, the same may also be the case.
Why have so many people moved so far away from this kind of basic human physical and mentally healthy behaviour? There’s numerous reasons but advertising is a big one. Advertising has done a great job of convincing people they need new stuff, that their lives are lacking and they’ll have a better life or be a better person if they own (whatever) product.
Social media is another, where we’re just seeing the best parts of people’s lives edited and filtered. It’s difficult for people, particularly young people to not feel like their own lives are dull or missing something in comparison. People are becoming less human as they seek short term rushes of dopamine from likes and positive affirmations from their posts and photos instead of actually interacting with humans or getting fresh air or exercise.
So chasing money or chasing free time won’t really make you happy, it depends on your outlook. Someone concerned with status isn’t going to be happy retired or having loads of free time (unless they can show off more) someone who values relationships more and human interaction isn’t going to be happier making more money if they can’t interact with their loved ones.
Giving someone loads of free time may or may not make you happy, it depends entirely on what you do with it. If you’re doing exercise and meeting people that might be rewarding, if you’re sitting around wanting stuff and thinking everyone else has great lives then you’re going to be miserable.
The people, I know who are the happiest tend to be unconcerned with status and their belongings they tend to spend time with other people and they tend to do some exercise. That to me seems the key to happiness but I’m sure others will disagree.
TameRacingDriver said:
FocusRS3 said:
Lots tend to spend cash on luxuries just to make them feel better about working in a job they hate
Indeed, sadly, I can relate from past experience.In the end I sold my house in East London for silly money (although not as silly as what it is worth now) and bought a 5 bed home in Chester and stuck the rest into a unit trust/IS A feeder.
Hasn't stopped me buying toys but at least I can now afford and enjoy them
El stovey said:
Stuff
I agree with this totally, i believe it is down to the mindset of the individual.I have friends on 30k and friends on 500k, and throughout that range there are, fundamentally, the same issues, it is how the individual deals with them and creates a good work/life balance.
Just because you are earning six figure salaries does not mean you are tied to the office 18 hours a day and vice versa you may not be doing 9-5 on 30k.
johnwilliams77 said:
thainy77 said:
Could you forward on that academic research please...
To be fair to the yipster who is known for making stuff up, I have seen something similar which was done in the US around 75-100k dollars.Maybe in New York there might be enough wages offering $75-100k combined with low to moderate stress levels but I daresay if you go somewhere like Oregon or Ohio, if you're on 100k you've probably hit a limit where you can go no further without relocating and are a high-up in local government or chief executive.
Same here in the UK. My friends who work in something pretty standard, like or example second-line support would be clearing at least 45k in London - here in Exeter a 2L support job might just about clear 24k. Yes, the wage disparity really is great (and the cost of living not so different apart from rent and transport)
Edited by vsonix on Thursday 18th January 13:44
vsonix said:
Same here in the UK. My friends who work in something pretty standard, like or example second-line support would be clearing at least 45k in London - here in Exeter a 2L support job might just about clear 24k. Yes, the wage disparity really is great (and the cost of living not so different apart from rent and transport)
Sound about the same as here, but to be fair, the cost of living is hugely different, at least based off what my friends from down south tell me. One of them visited my house, a 4 bedroom house just over a mile from Newcastle city centre which I am paying £700 / month rent. She lives in Dunstable and is paying over double for something smaller, and presumably a lot less convenient for working in the capital than it is for me to walk 30 minutes or get a bus and be there in 10.Even if we assume it's still just about worth it, financially, what price do you put on having a stress free commute, no travelling expenses, and easy access to all of the products and services on tap in a major city within walking distance. One of my London working friends on facebook sounds thoroughly miserable about the whole commuting thing, before we even put the stresses of the job on top.
It's not for me
I lived in London for nearly a year, worked there for a few months after moving out of London. The commute when living there wasn't fun. The commute when not living there wasn't fun either. I'd have to be in London for 8:20am to get to my office for 9am, which meant leaving home around half 6. I would usually get home at around half 7. I wasn't on a great wage at the time either.
If I was to work in Reading, it would mean leaving home at 7 to get there for 9, and then get home for around half 7 again.
In a car averaging 40mpg I would spend a further £2600 a year on travel, plus wear and tear on the car.
So based on that, I would need to earn £2600 extra after deductions. Taking my lost time into consideration, I'd need compensating for that as well, so lets say another £5k after deductions. So reckoning on over £10k a year extra to at least try and make it worthwhile.
If I was to work in Reading, it would mean leaving home at 7 to get there for 9, and then get home for around half 7 again.
In a car averaging 40mpg I would spend a further £2600 a year on travel, plus wear and tear on the car.
So based on that, I would need to earn £2600 extra after deductions. Taking my lost time into consideration, I'd need compensating for that as well, so lets say another £5k after deductions. So reckoning on over £10k a year extra to at least try and make it worthwhile.
TameRacingDriver said:
Even if we assume it's still just about worth it, financially, what price do you put on having a stress free commute, no travelling expenses, and easy access to all of the products and services on tap in a major city within walking distance. One of my London working friends on facebook sounds thoroughly miserable about the whole commuting thing, before we even put the stresses of the job on top.
Conversely there are a lot of people (mostly young and without commitments, or at least without kids) who enjoy the post-work social circle and the immediate / easy access to all manner of gigs, shows, comedians and top restaurants that those of us who live in the (comparative) sticks have to make plans and sacrifices for.I've missed a bunch of gigs in my younger days, for example, because the band in question only played in London (or at a festival*), and the London gig's been on a weekday when my last train back would mean leaving the gig half-way through the main act. And the train fare would have trebled / quadrupled the cost of the concert.
Also how many plays are only performed in London? (+ in SuA if Shakespeare)
...and how many of the best restaurants are in London? Vs how many are north of Birmingham, say?
etc. etc...
We're all saying life is about more than just work...but if you've no kids or other commitments, then life is (for me) about experiences more than posessions, and London DOES offer a lot more opportunities in that regard than any other city in the UK...so there are positives there too...
* Not really into paying close to £100 to see one band I want to and 30 I don't...especially when I was younger and didn't have that sort of cash.
counterofbeans said:
thainy77 said:
Yipper said:
It's linked to responsibility and fireability.
When you're on 30k and someone is handing you work on a plate and you do 40hrs and nobody sacks you if something goes wrong, it's (on the whole) a lower-stress role. But cash is not great.
When you're on 300k and you have to bring in profit from a blank page and 100 staff are acting like babies and you do 80hrs and you may get sacked if you miss this quarter's target by 5%, then it's (on the whole) a higher stress role.
The 50k jobs tend to be in-between and offer a nice balance between reasonable money (for most people) and reasonable responsibility / status.
Ah yes, i forgot, every job at 30k requires no responsibility or accountability, may as well get monkeys in eh?When you're on 30k and someone is handing you work on a plate and you do 40hrs and nobody sacks you if something goes wrong, it's (on the whole) a lower-stress role. But cash is not great.
When you're on 300k and you have to bring in profit from a blank page and 100 staff are acting like babies and you do 80hrs and you may get sacked if you miss this quarter's target by 5%, then it's (on the whole) a higher stress role.
The 50k jobs tend to be in-between and offer a nice balance between reasonable money (for most people) and reasonable responsibility / status.
Can i ask what you do? are you on a six figure salary?
havoc said:
Conversely there are a lot of people (mostly young and without commitments, or at least without kids) who enjoy the post-work social circle and the immediate / easy access to all manner of gigs, shows, comedians and top restaurants that those of us who live in the (comparative) sticks have to make plans and sacrifices for.
I've missed a bunch of gigs in my younger days, for example, because the band in question only played in London (or at a festival*), and the London gig's been on a weekday when my last train back would mean leaving the gig half-way through the main act. And the train fare would have trebled / quadrupled the cost of the concert.
Also how many plays are only performed in London? (+ in SuA if Shakespeare)
...and how many of the best restaurants are in London? Vs how many are north of Birmingham, say?
etc. etc...
We're all saying life is about more than just work...but if you've no kids or other commitments, then life is (for me) about experiences more than posessions, and London DOES offer a lot more opportunities in that regard than any other city in the UK...so there are positives there too...
* Not really into paying close to £100 to see one band I want to and 30 I don't...especially when I was younger and didn't have that sort of cash.
All valid points. I grew up in Hull before moving to Sheffield, London and now Aylesbury. I am close enough to London (1 hour, last train around midnight) to be able to do stuff if I want, but Sunday to Thursday evenings I generally spend at home, though my Sunday evenings will soon be taken up by a pool league I have joined, but that is by the by. I've missed a bunch of gigs in my younger days, for example, because the band in question only played in London (or at a festival*), and the London gig's been on a weekday when my last train back would mean leaving the gig half-way through the main act. And the train fare would have trebled / quadrupled the cost of the concert.
Also how many plays are only performed in London? (+ in SuA if Shakespeare)
...and how many of the best restaurants are in London? Vs how many are north of Birmingham, say?
etc. etc...
We're all saying life is about more than just work...but if you've no kids or other commitments, then life is (for me) about experiences more than posessions, and London DOES offer a lot more opportunities in that regard than any other city in the UK...so there are positives there too...
* Not really into paying close to £100 to see one band I want to and 30 I don't...especially when I was younger and didn't have that sort of cash.
I'm 37 in a few months so still young, but my last job battered me, so for now I am more than happy taking it easy, especially if I have to earn another £10k just to break even on travel costs..
zubzob said:
10k a year at average stock market returns would probably beef up that pension quite nicely!
3 years ago I realised I was spending about 8k a year on restaurants and takeaways.
By cutting down to 3k and investing balance in a SIPP aiming for 7% average returns I should add 175k to my pension within 20 years. Means I can retire 4 years earlier.
Now if you love food more than you hate working, not for you. Works for me though.
I'm looking at SIPPS, any recommendations?3 years ago I realised I was spending about 8k a year on restaurants and takeaways.
By cutting down to 3k and investing balance in a SIPP aiming for 7% average returns I should add 175k to my pension within 20 years. Means I can retire 4 years earlier.
Now if you love food more than you hate working, not for you. Works for me though.
Edited by zubzob on Wednesday 17th January 19:14
Another great thing about stepping back from a 9-5 is that you can learn to be more self-sufficient so you find you don't need to be grinding away at the coalface quite so hard anyway.
You can spend more time in the garden or down the allotment growing your own food. Learn to maintain your own vehicle so you don't have to pay a shop £50 just to diagnose a misfire. Save hundreds on routine maintenance, replacing sensors, oil changes etc.
Learn to brew so you have a near constant supply of great beer for pennies instead of pounds per bottle. Invest more time in cooking and preparing quality meals thereby diminishing the need to waste money on take-aways and eating out. Only buy clothes you want or need to wear instead of a whole separate wardrobe for sitting in the office. Go to the bank or supermarket at 2pm on a Tuesday when it's quiet and there are no queues. No more having to drive/travel in rush hour unless it's absolutely necessary. Life is generally so much easier, smoother and cheaper when you're not forced into keeping the same hours as everyone else.
You can spend more time in the garden or down the allotment growing your own food. Learn to maintain your own vehicle so you don't have to pay a shop £50 just to diagnose a misfire. Save hundreds on routine maintenance, replacing sensors, oil changes etc.
Learn to brew so you have a near constant supply of great beer for pennies instead of pounds per bottle. Invest more time in cooking and preparing quality meals thereby diminishing the need to waste money on take-aways and eating out. Only buy clothes you want or need to wear instead of a whole separate wardrobe for sitting in the office. Go to the bank or supermarket at 2pm on a Tuesday when it's quiet and there are no queues. No more having to drive/travel in rush hour unless it's absolutely necessary. Life is generally so much easier, smoother and cheaper when you're not forced into keeping the same hours as everyone else.
vsonix said:
Another great thing about stepping back from a 9-5 is that you can learn to be more self-sufficient so you find you don't need to be grinding away at the coalface quite so hard anyway.
You can spend more time in the garden or down the allotment growing your own food. Learn to maintain your own vehicle so you don't have to pay a shop £50 just to diagnose a misfire. Save hundreds on routine maintenance, replacing sensors, oil changes etc.
Learn to brew so you have a near constant supply of great beer for pennies instead of pounds per bottle. Invest more time in cooking and preparing quality meals thereby diminishing the need to waste money on take-aways and eating out. Only buy clothes you want or need to wear instead of a whole separate wardrobe for sitting in the office. Go to the bank or supermarket at 2pm on a Tuesday when it's quiet and there are no queues. No more having to drive/travel in rush hour unless it's absolutely necessary. Life is generally so much easier, smoother and cheaper when you're not forced into keeping the same hours as everyone else.
TBH a lot of that applies to me already. I don't pay garages often etc for the bigger jobs, I don't buy clothes for the sake of it, I go to work in jeans, trainers and shirt / t-shirt, I work in the town centre and I can pop out when I want, my boss is VERY easy going. I pass my local Aldi on the way home so will pop in there sometimes and pick up a few bits and bats. My life contains little stress tbh, only the stress that I create..You can spend more time in the garden or down the allotment growing your own food. Learn to maintain your own vehicle so you don't have to pay a shop £50 just to diagnose a misfire. Save hundreds on routine maintenance, replacing sensors, oil changes etc.
Learn to brew so you have a near constant supply of great beer for pennies instead of pounds per bottle. Invest more time in cooking and preparing quality meals thereby diminishing the need to waste money on take-aways and eating out. Only buy clothes you want or need to wear instead of a whole separate wardrobe for sitting in the office. Go to the bank or supermarket at 2pm on a Tuesday when it's quiet and there are no queues. No more having to drive/travel in rush hour unless it's absolutely necessary. Life is generally so much easier, smoother and cheaper when you're not forced into keeping the same hours as everyone else.
havoc said:
We're all saying life is about more than just work...but if you've no kids or other commitments, then life is (for me) about experiences more than posessions, and London DOES offer a lot more opportunities in that regard than any other city in the UK...so there are positives there too...
I see where you're coming from, but for me, having a 2 hour journey home when I'm finished socialising would take the shine off it a fair bit.I guess I have some of the best of all worlds where I live. I'm close enough to town that my social life is also very good, handy for work, but without the travelling expenses, commuting and all that which goes with living in a huge city like London.
TheAngryDog said:
... still young, but my last job battered me, so for now I am more than happy taking it easy, especially if I have to earn another £10k just to break even on travel costs..
I can relate to that.
(That said, I've taken on a 1hr commute, albeit with a lot less stress / aggro)
havoc said:
TheAngryDog said:
... still young, but my last job battered me, so for now I am more than happy taking it easy, especially if I have to earn another £10k just to break even on travel costs..
I can relate to that.
(That said, I've taken on a 1hr commute, albeit with a lot less stress / aggro)
good luck with the new job!
I was never really content with any of my jobs from 17-25, could work my nuts off and go places within organisations but the thought of one day the company just going bust and being out on my arse at the bottom of the pecking order got to me. Was never really happy no matter what wage slip said. I told myself even if it had a zero on the end I would still feel that way.
Made a change at 26 and and started out on my own, no more PAYE, ttish management or lining the pockets of some other person. It was liberating. Now I love my work, and feel very fortunate that after several years of graft I am now able to dial up or down the amount of work I chose to do.
Made a change at 26 and and started out on my own, no more PAYE, t
tish management or lining the pockets of some other person. It was liberating. Now I love my work, and feel very fortunate that after several years of graft I am now able to dial up or down the amount of work I chose to do. 
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