Discussion
Ari said:
Sa Calobra said:
Without the huge revenue of taxes that alcohol brings and the resulting injuries there would be many nurses and Doctors out of a job. There simply wouldn't be a need for huge hospital facilities long-term.
I fell off my mountain bike and the triage nurse explained I was low priority as it was a self inflicted injury. I explained to her that cycling keeps me out of hospital 364 days a year every single year. I didn't add that looking at her her obvious love of food etc would be making a visitor herself one day. Harsh, very harsh but I was very offended at her rationale and label that she gave me.
Bike riding doesn't contribute in any way to the NHS coffers and you're clearly putting yourself at extra risk of needing the NHS (as you've proved by falling off it and placing additional burden on A&E). I fell off my mountain bike and the triage nurse explained I was low priority as it was a self inflicted injury. I explained to her that cycling keeps me out of hospital 364 days a year every single year. I didn't add that looking at her her obvious love of food etc would be making a visitor herself one day. Harsh, very harsh but I was very offended at her rationale and label that she gave me.
You are exactly the same as someone overweight, adding burden to the NHS unnecessarily through lifestyle choice - by your very own logic!
Smokers actually cost the NHS far less (£2.6bn) than obesity as they tend to die relatively quickly once they get ill.
Lastly, a motorcycle accident, or a sports accident is exactly that, an accident. Problems arising from a long term program of stuffing your face, is no accident. It’s an inevitability.
Superflow said:
There are fat people everywhere the problem is it has become socially acceptable because many are in denial and too lazy to take action.I am 43 and 75kg and can run rings round men 15-20 years younger than me,it's disgusting really and the UK is heading for a health disaster.
It is fine being 16 stone but 16 st of what? vast majority are a sack of sh@t to look at like those blokes in the rugby shirts.
Have a look at a middleweight boxer 12 stone and tell me he looks underweight don't think so,some people in denial on here.
I agree with most of that. It is fine being 16 stone but 16 st of what? vast majority are a sack of sh@t to look at like those blokes in the rugby shirts.
Have a look at a middleweight boxer 12 stone and tell me he looks underweight don't think so,some people in denial on here.
amongst my colleagues it appears to be the norm for men of 30+ to have a shirt that stretches around the middle and a belt that goes under the stomach.
Do remember that a middleweight Boxer is actually probably more like 12 stone 5lb, other than at the weigh-in. But yes, I'd probably be a middleweight or super middleweight.
In a country full of fatties, I'm pleased to be a lean, fit man in my 40s.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 25th April 22:00
Shuvi McTupya said:
Just for the hell of it I just did a BMI check. I am 50yrs old, 6'0" , 13 stone. 24.7 BMI.
So, that puts me just inside the 'healthy range" a couple more pounds and I would be getting into 'overweight territory'
As you say, According to the test I did, the middle of the healthy range for my height/age is 11 stone! Any mature adult 6ft tall guy that is 11 stone would probably look a bit undernourished in western society!
It's a good job I don't work out as that would easily push me over the line to overweight..
I'm a similar age, height and weight. In my 20's, I was a lightweight oarsman at the top levels of club rowing. I weighed 11stone (70kg). I had as near zero fat as it is sensible to get. I looked skinny.So, that puts me just inside the 'healthy range" a couple more pounds and I would be getting into 'overweight territory'
As you say, According to the test I did, the middle of the healthy range for my height/age is 11 stone! Any mature adult 6ft tall guy that is 11 stone would probably look a bit undernourished in western society!
It's a good job I don't work out as that would easily push me over the line to overweight..
bulldong said:
Ari said:
Sa Calobra said:
Without the huge revenue of taxes that alcohol brings and the resulting injuries there would be many nurses and Doctors out of a job. There simply wouldn't be a need for huge hospital facilities long-term.
I fell off my mountain bike and the triage nurse explained I was low priority as it was a self inflicted injury. I explained to her that cycling keeps me out of hospital 364 days a year every single year. I didn't add that looking at her her obvious love of food etc would be making a visitor herself one day. Harsh, very harsh but I was very offended at her rationale and label that she gave me.
Bike riding doesn't contribute in any way to the NHS coffers and you're clearly putting yourself at extra risk of needing the NHS (as you've proved by falling off it and placing additional burden on A&E). I fell off my mountain bike and the triage nurse explained I was low priority as it was a self inflicted injury. I explained to her that cycling keeps me out of hospital 364 days a year every single year. I didn't add that looking at her her obvious love of food etc would be making a visitor herself one day. Harsh, very harsh but I was very offended at her rationale and label that she gave me.
You are exactly the same as someone overweight, adding burden to the NHS unnecessarily through lifestyle choice - by your very own logic!
Smokers actually cost the NHS far less (£2.6bn) than obesity as they tend to die relatively quickly once they get ill.
Lastly, a motorcycle accident, or a sports accident is exactly that, an accident. Problems arising from a long term program of stuffing your face, is no accident. It’s an inevitability.
You can argue 'yes but his choice is potentially less of a burden' (without any figures to back it up) if you like, but so what? Does that mean that if I can find a lifestyle choice more of a burden than obesity, it excuses obesity? Well obviously not. Same applies. How about if I find an obese person who has never needed the NHS - they're immediately less of a burden than he has already been through his choice. Again, so what?
The point is, it's a very slippery slope when you start chastising people's choices on the basis that they have the potential to become a 'financial burden', because everyone is making some choice or other that increases their risk above where it could be.
You either ask everyone to stop (so pretty much any sport, hobby or pastime that requires leaving the house, plus alcohol, cigarettes, fast food, fast cars, etc etc etc).
Or you don't.
Lets bring a little bit of logic in. The NHS’s biggest problem is the NHS. It is far too good at its job. Put simply, it keeps a huge number of people alive for much longer, requiring much more expense. It’s that simple.
If you want to look at the net tax contributions of a fat person v a thin person of comparable income the fat person obviously spends far more of that income on high tax goods and dies sooner. The thin person pays less tax typically and lives longer and while healthier will still eventually be a cost to the NHS and probably put up more of a fight and so cost more in the long run.
It isn’t a simple argument to say that the obese are a bigger drain on the NHS and it’s probably a waste of time to try and argue that they are.
If you want to look at the net tax contributions of a fat person v a thin person of comparable income the fat person obviously spends far more of that income on high tax goods and dies sooner. The thin person pays less tax typically and lives longer and while healthier will still eventually be a cost to the NHS and probably put up more of a fight and so cost more in the long run.
It isn’t a simple argument to say that the obese are a bigger drain on the NHS and it’s probably a waste of time to try and argue that they are.
DonkeyApple said:
If you want to look at the net tax contributions of a fat person v a thin person of comparable income the fat person obviously spends far more of that income on high tax goods and dies sooner.
A lot of food isn't high tax or indeed any tax so obesity is not necessarily a big revenue stream for HMRC.DonkeyApple said:
Lets bring a little bit of logic in. The NHS’s biggest problem is the NHS. It is far too good at its job. Put simply, it keeps a huge number of people alive for much longer, requiring much more expense. It’s that simple.
The very fact that this is true, combined with the fact that obesity is known to cause a wide range of associated conditions is exactly why they are likely to require more health resources while they are alive, outstripping the "savings" that are made by their early demise. They are also not paying any tax when they are dead, thin people are paying tax for longer.Thin people are also less likely to be unable to work or suffer disabilities that require welfare assistance and they are likely to need less care as they age. Thin people live longer but you also see more of them because they are more likely to live independently in the community rather than in a home and more likely to get out for a walk rather than being stuck in a chair with people waiting on them.
DonkeyApple said:
The thin person pays less tax typically and lives longer and while healthier will still eventually be a cost to the NHS and probably put up more of a fight and so cost more in the long run.
Nope, as above, more likely to live relatively healthily, generate more tax and then die of a sudden or short term condition. DonkeyApple said:
It isn’t a simple argument to say that the obese are a bigger drain on the NHS and it’s probably a waste of time to try and argue that they are.
I don't know if we should be penalising people for their life choices, I'm not overweight but could be fitter, I don't smoke but I do drink, my hobbies generate plenty of tax but they could also get me a ride to hospital one day.None of this stuff is simple or clear cut but on balance it's pretty clear that being substantially overweight has strong risks of downsides for the person in question and costs to society. When they start using words like crisis and epidemic perhaps it's something that needs a little bit of attention.
Shuvi McTupya said:
Just for the hell of it I just did a BMI check. I am 50yrs old, 6'0" , 13 stone. 24.7 BMI.
So, that puts me just inside the 'healthy range" a couple more pounds and I would be getting into 'overweight territory'
I'm 50 years old, 6'2" (or 3" depending where I look) and 92kg, trousers are always 32 waist 34 leg. People describe me as slim or even skinny. According to that BBC thing I am overweight. With the most critical eye in the world I am not overweight. Who wrote these tables? Ethiopian famine survivors?So, that puts me just inside the 'healthy range" a couple more pounds and I would be getting into 'overweight territory'
Steve H said:
DonkeyApple said:
If you want to look at the net tax contributions of a fat person v a thin person of comparable income the fat person obviously spends far more of that income on high tax goods and dies sooner.
A lot of food isn't high tax or indeed any tax so obesity is not necessarily a big revenue stream for HMRC.DonkeyApple said:
Lets bring a little bit of logic in. The NHS’s biggest problem is the NHS. It is far too good at its job. Put simply, it keeps a huge number of people alive for much longer, requiring much more expense. It’s that simple.
The very fact that this is true, combined with the fact that obesity is known to cause a wide range of associated conditions is exactly why they are likely to require more health resources while they are alive, outstripping the "savings" that are made by their early demise. They are also not paying any tax when they are dead, thin people are paying tax for longer.Thin people are also less likely to be unable to work or suffer disabilities that require welfare assistance and they are likely to need less care as they age. Thin people live longer but you also see more of them because they are more likely to live independently in the community rather than in a home and more likely to get out for a walk rather than being stuck in a chair with people waiting on them.
DonkeyApple said:
The thin person pays less tax typically and lives longer and while healthier will still eventually be a cost to the NHS and probably put up more of a fight and so cost more in the long run.
Nope, as above, more likely to live relatively healthily, generate more tax and then die of a sudden or short term condition. DonkeyApple said:
It isn’t a simple argument to say that the obese are a bigger drain on the NHS and it’s probably a waste of time to try and argue that they are.
I don't know if we should be penalising people for their life choices, I'm not overweight but could be fitter, I don't smoke but I do drink, my hobbies generate plenty of tax but they could also get me a ride to hospital one day.None of this stuff is simple or clear cut but on balance it's pretty clear that being substantially overweight has strong risks of downsides for the person in question and costs to society. When they start using words like crisis and epidemic perhaps it's something that needs a little bit of attention.
What I am saying is that it isn’t as cut and dry as some make out. I would be very happy for you to show the facts that back up your claims.
Very few people are net contributors anyway as the amount of tax needed to be paid to cover the lifetime cost of an individual is surprisingly high. The last report I read was claiming that you had to be a highest rate tax payer for a considerable period to be a net contributor so maybe only those people could honestly have a pop at fatties being a drain but then maybe they aren’t as much of a drain as thin people? The data would be interesting.
Jim;
I'm in virtually the same place as you. Wife has had 2nd baby (2 years ago now) and never lost the weight. Same sort of thing, I'm still slim and trim from the work I do. Shes far less active and thinks she can eat what she wants. The outcome of course is that she gets bigger, but doesnt seem worried about it.
I also worked away till recently (rigs so month on month off) and I think returning home has benefitted our relationship. She is able to have more time to think about herself and has started to eat more sensibly.
Simple things though like I'll be starving hungry after a long days work out in the cold, shes been in all day in the warm sitting on the sofa. She orders and eats the same amount of food I do on the takeaway night. And then is mystified when the weight continues piling up, even though she had a salad for lunch last week...
Any luck with a solution to this?
I'm in virtually the same place as you. Wife has had 2nd baby (2 years ago now) and never lost the weight. Same sort of thing, I'm still slim and trim from the work I do. Shes far less active and thinks she can eat what she wants. The outcome of course is that she gets bigger, but doesnt seem worried about it.
I also worked away till recently (rigs so month on month off) and I think returning home has benefitted our relationship. She is able to have more time to think about herself and has started to eat more sensibly.
Simple things though like I'll be starving hungry after a long days work out in the cold, shes been in all day in the warm sitting on the sofa. She orders and eats the same amount of food I do on the takeaway night. And then is mystified when the weight continues piling up, even though she had a salad for lunch last week...
Any luck with a solution to this?
Interesting article on the beeb today on the BMI has been refuted claims
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43895508
I know when I was heavier, I said exactly the same thing about being unable to see myself at X weight. Now I am x weight I don't look emaciated, have fat stores and am fit (also love beer and sugary sweets but exercise hard to balance it). For the record 183 cm tall and 70 kg in weight at the moment.
People struggle to see weight on themselves, which I think is completely normal. It's tricky to get people to answer you honestly when you ask if you've put on weight or are carrying a few lb's extra as they think they are fat shaming / being offensive to a medical question.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43895508
I know when I was heavier, I said exactly the same thing about being unable to see myself at X weight. Now I am x weight I don't look emaciated, have fat stores and am fit (also love beer and sugary sweets but exercise hard to balance it). For the record 183 cm tall and 70 kg in weight at the moment.
People struggle to see weight on themselves, which I think is completely normal. It's tricky to get people to answer you honestly when you ask if you've put on weight or are carrying a few lb's extra as they think they are fat shaming / being offensive to a medical question.
AstonZagato said:
Shuvi McTupya said:
Just for the hell of it I just did a BMI check. I am 50yrs old, 6'0" , 13 stone. 24.7 BMI.
So, that puts me just inside the 'healthy range" a couple more pounds and I would be getting into 'overweight territory'
As you say, According to the test I did, the middle of the healthy range for my height/age is 11 stone! Any mature adult 6ft tall guy that is 11 stone would probably look a bit undernourished in western society!
It's a good job I don't work out as that would easily push me over the line to overweight..
I'm a similar age, height and weight. In my 20's, I was a lightweight oarsman at the top levels of club rowing. I weighed 11stone (70kg). I had as near zero fat as it is sensible to get. I looked skinny.So, that puts me just inside the 'healthy range" a couple more pounds and I would be getting into 'overweight territory'
As you say, According to the test I did, the middle of the healthy range for my height/age is 11 stone! Any mature adult 6ft tall guy that is 11 stone would probably look a bit undernourished in western society!
It's a good job I don't work out as that would easily push me over the line to overweight..
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't buy this BMI stuff. I am 5'10 and about 14 stone. I don't look fat in the slightest. Yeah I'm not ripped by any stretch of the imagination either but nobody thinks I am fat.
Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
I'm 5'10 and bang on 11 stone. Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
Stand next to me and you'll look pretty fat.
technodup said:
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't buy this BMI stuff. I am 5'10 and about 14 stone. I don't look fat in the slightest. Yeah I'm not ripped by any stretch of the imagination either but nobody thinks I am fat.
Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
I'm 5'10 and bang on 11 stone. Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
Stand next to me and you'll look pretty fat.
I am one of those people who ruin BMI but still think it's a great indicator for the people who need to be keeping an eye on their BMI.All this problem started around the same time as "Anti body shaming" began.
"be proud of your shape"
"I'm not fat I'm curvy"
" I'm voluptuous"
When I was a kid we had one chap in our class and by todays standards he was carrying just a few extra pounds. He was called "Fatso".
As an adult if you want to stuff your face all day and carry around a bucket of lard with you that's fine by me but having fat kids is just poor parenting and people should be made ashamed of it not celebrating it. Trouble is they're so fat themselves they think their kids are slim.
Big bones, puppy fat, all a load of b
ks. Your kid is a lard arse and as the parent you're responsible so do something about it. Fat kids, fat adult.
Was paying in the petrol station during the recent snowy weather and this moron of a woman was moaning to her friend about how the school should be closed as it was unfair to drag the kids out in this sort of weather. All the time she's buying her fat kid chocolate, crisps and fizzy drinks. What the hell is wrong with these people. Worried about a bit of cold but not the shape of her child.
And breath.....
"be proud of your shape"
"I'm not fat I'm curvy"
" I'm voluptuous"
When I was a kid we had one chap in our class and by todays standards he was carrying just a few extra pounds. He was called "Fatso".
As an adult if you want to stuff your face all day and carry around a bucket of lard with you that's fine by me but having fat kids is just poor parenting and people should be made ashamed of it not celebrating it. Trouble is they're so fat themselves they think their kids are slim.
Big bones, puppy fat, all a load of b
ks. Your kid is a lard arse and as the parent you're responsible so do something about it. Fat kids, fat adult. Was paying in the petrol station during the recent snowy weather and this moron of a woman was moaning to her friend about how the school should be closed as it was unfair to drag the kids out in this sort of weather. All the time she's buying her fat kid chocolate, crisps and fizzy drinks. What the hell is wrong with these people. Worried about a bit of cold but not the shape of her child.
And breath.....
From BBC:
BMI of 24.5 (I am lean, have a low fat, narrow waist, thin face and reasonably high muscle in legs. I will probably lose 1-2 Kg during the summer months of sport)
Your BMI is lower than the average of 27.9 for a man in your age group (35-44) in England.
About 69% of men in your age group in England are overweight, obese or very obese. [u]69%!!!!![/u] Of Young-ish men....
Underweight
1%
Healthy
31%
Overweight
40%
Obese
26%
Very obese
3%
These are men (who should still be) in their prime. This is not good.
BMI of 24.5 (I am lean, have a low fat, narrow waist, thin face and reasonably high muscle in legs. I will probably lose 1-2 Kg during the summer months of sport)
Your BMI is lower than the average of 27.9 for a man in your age group (35-44) in England.
About 69% of men in your age group in England are overweight, obese or very obese. [u]69%!!!!![/u] Of Young-ish men....
Underweight
1%
Healthy
31%
Overweight
40%
Obese
26%
Very obese
3%
These are men (who should still be) in their prime. This is not good.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 26th April 12:10
technodup said:
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't buy this BMI stuff. I am 5'10 and about 14 stone. I don't look fat in the slightest. Yeah I'm not ripped by any stretch of the imagination either but nobody thinks I am fat.
Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
I'm 5'10 and bang on 11 stone. Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
Stand next to me and you'll look pretty fat.
Now the average person is fat, you have to be thinner than average to be healthy!
technodup said:
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't buy this BMI stuff. I am 5'10 and about 14 stone. I don't look fat in the slightest. Yeah I'm not ripped by any stretch of the imagination either but nobody thinks I am fat.
Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
I'm 5'10 and bang on 11 stone. Most blokes I know are around similar.
According to the BMI I'd have to be about 11 stone to be ideal. Last time I was that someone said I liked like a cancer victim.
Stand next to me and you'll look pretty fat.
I've just put my details into the calculator on the beeb, and apparently, I am obese. I will admit to being a little overweight, but obese is ridiculous, there's just no way. I am pretty #powerfullybuilt though
My waist is 35", but I have to buy extra large tops because my chest and shoulders are too large for anything less.
In all honesty, I think if I lost about another stone or so I'd be spot on for my age/size/build.
I'm not sure what else I could do really. I watch calories closely, average around 30 - 40 miles of walking per week, do weightlifting 2-3x per week. OK I like the odd beer here and there, but honestly, I don't think my lifestyle is that bad these days.
Edited by TameRacingDriver on Thursday 26th April 12:33
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff