993 NB @ £80K with 84k miles...really?!

[n12maser]

At Porsche Cardiff:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Sorry to start a value thread, but this ad struck me: isnt that just silly money especially considering the milleage and that it's not a 2s or 4s...or is there something I don't know happening in the market?!

[acme]

As much as I like the next 993 owner would like to think mine's worth that, it simply isn't, I'd say it's 30k over priced, at least.

[IMI A]

Values aside I've seen both and this 84,000 mile car is in far better condition than this ultra low miles car.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[n12maser]

maybe 993s are getting to to the age where overall condition has more of an influence on price than it used to (vs. mileage alone). no one wants a 10k miles 993 that's rusting from the inside out, plus they can be easily clocked.

[IMI A]

n12maser said:

maybe 993s are getting to to the age where overall condition has more of an influence on price than it used to (vs. mileage alone). no one wants a 10k miles 993 that's rusting from the inside out, plus they can be easily clocked.

The 84000 mile car is definitely in better condition than the ultra low miles car. If you looked at both cars and the speedos were covered up you'd say the silver car has done less mileage for sure. Original panel original paint. Can't say the same about the yellow 993. I'd buy the silver car for 80k all day long.

[ooid]

There is a 993 C4 Cabrio, at 58k miles.

https://www.design911.co.uk/cars-for-sale/Porsche-...

it is £52,000.00.

[IMI A]

LHD the cab? Nice though.

There's two beauties at 911v and Paragon.

http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/884/993C2C...

http://paragongb.com/cars/porsche-911-carrera-2-fo...

[acme]

As obvious as it sounds I'd agree re mileage/condition etc.

In the ten years I've owned mine and longer that I've been looking at them it's incredible the varying condition. They stand up well but some (apparently) low milers do look pretty ropey in places, than mine with 100k doesn't - I'm not just talking classic wear points; bolsters, gearknob, steering wheel etc.

Edited by acme on Wednesday 18th July 19:39

[acme]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

None, but you can buy an awful lot of repairs for 30k!

[g7jhp]

You've got to really want a 993 at nearly £60k.

I went from a 3.2 to a 993 C4 Varioram and back to another 3.2.

Personally I prefer the 3.2 or 964 if I wanted a classic 911 with the upright headlights.

Or move for a dynamically superior 996 or 997.

[IMI A]

I've tried factory correct 964 C2 and 3.2 Carrera and and all the variants whether 3.2, 964 or 993 are a bit soft out of the box. They need a bit of fettling (not much) to get the best out of them.

Drove a 993 Carrera not long ago that Heritage Autowerks (Singer UK Agent) have basically remanufactured.

Knocks the socks of a modern drives with flappy paddles etc or even something like a 996, 991 or 997.

Showing 91,000 miles but had new 330bhp 3.8 only 15,000 miles ago. £120,000. Is it expensive?

I don't think so but you have to drive one to understand these old modded 911s as if done right by a Heritage, Tuthills etc they're better than out of the factory.

If you're an air-cooled 911 addict the way to go is to build your own car and you can do it with 3.2, 964 or 993 or buy something like the yellow peril below.

[IMI A]

I think you're not being fair. As aesthetic objects ie something beautiful and also beautifully engineered hard to beat cars form this generation. Just look at them.

RPM Technik currently doing some amazing air-cooled and water cooled builds too as you're aware.

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/restoration-project-build...



https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/restoration-project-build...



I'd happily have any of the above the cars over say something like a new turbo s, GT3 or 488 and they're not cheap to build ie every bit as dear to build as a cost of a new turbo s or 488 depending how far you want to go. The RS Suspension for example can't even be brought from Porsche anymore.

Using the yellow 993 as an example in terms of build estimated costs but could be any air-cooled really. I can see how you easily drop £160,000 in to a project like one of these

Decent accident free donor car £50,000
RS Suspension and front Hubs £20,000
Wheels and Rubber £ 6,000
Full Glass out Paint £ 5,000 to £30,000 if doing a full colour change
Engine with 3.8 £30,000 for 330bhp but you can go up to £50,000 for something closer to 400bhp
Interior £ 5000 to £10,000
Sunroof delete £ 6000

[WCZ]

£20k for RS suspension ? that's nuts. surely there's something comparable on the aftermarket

[jonny996]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Would you say the bubble had effected all classic sports cars of that era, or has air cooled Porsche lead the way

[IMI A]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yeah I agree air-cooled are circa more than 2x what they used to cost across the board but thats not a fashion thing its simply the market realising that such unique driving experiences were far too cheap especially at a time when new cars coming out of modern factories are generally dull as dishwater. And prices doubling over a 6 year really isn't all that bad when you consider how hard it is to find a good air cooled car at a reasonable price. So a 911 shed used to cost £10k. That same shed is now about £25k for a blank canvass to create virtually anything you want.

Taking your own Boxster S as an example. Its a classic. Its fast. Its reliable and has lots of character. Its better than a 993 in almost every way yet its the little air cooled beetle's prodigal child which makes everyone swoon even when you put an Aventador next to it. Go figure

[n12maser]

Cmoose they've not doubled purely for fashion, I think that's unfair. Modern, largely more anodyne Porsches have rendered them more appealing.

[Koln-RS]

True. They come from a 'golden era' of Porsche history, they're not going to make any more, and good, original, unmolested examples, in the right spec, will command premium prices - especially if low mileage.


Of course, some are over-priced, but sellers are entitled to ask what they like, and the sunny weather will go to some people's heads.

[RedSwede]

Price rise isn't down to one factor. Probably partly fashion, probably partly enthusiasts looking back towards older cars. But a steady/rising market also reduces risk in buying cars like this, so more people feel comfortable indulging their desires (be it fashion or driving pleasure), and off it spirals (to a point).

I don't think it's a bad thing entirely - a high market price will encourage maintenance investment, parts availability, specialist knowledge, etc. Maybe Porsche always had a good helping of this, but certainly more so for the general market.

[ooid]

IMI A said:

LHD the cab? Nice though.

I think for a weekend car that mainly used for euro-trips too, LHD and cabrio would not be so bad.

Another one at 911, Coupe and LHD but Tip



https://www.design911.co.uk/cars-for-sale/Porsche-...

[g7jhp]

RedSwede said:

Price rise isn't down to one factor. Probably partly fashion, probably partly enthusiasts looking back towards older cars. But a steady/rising market also reduces risk in buying cars like this, so more people feel comfortable indulging their desires (be it fashion or driving pleasure), and off it spirals (to a point).

I don't think it's a bad thing entirely - a high market price will encourage maintenance investment, parts availability, specialist knowledge, etc. Maybe Porsche always had a good helping of this, but certainly more so for the general market.

I agree with Cmoose and don't buy the current state of the market.

Prices jumped literally overnight. This wasn't down to enthusiasts waking up or fashion. An air-cooled 911 is an acquired taste - far too heavy and mechanical for most who prefer their modern tech laden chariots.

It was a down to people buying cars as an investment. I know a number of people who know nothing about cars who've bought cars purely to make money on (Astons etc).

Nothing much has changed in the market for 5-6 years as interest rates are low and there aren't many alternative assets worth investing in.

When rates rise and other more attract assets reveal themselves then there will be a cooling of the market. I doubt it will crash as there are enough enthusiasts who would buy in at a more realistic level.

I don't see the market as steady at present and wouldn't be comfortable buying in now - but then I started buying 3.2 Carrera's at £16k and 993's at £25k.

And IMI A spending £160k on a custom air-cooled 911 would be nuts as you'd never get your money back. Better to buy a car which has already been created and let someone else take the hit (or buy a mint 3.2, 964, 993).