I may finally "get" crossovers...
Discussion
My wife and I have been at a stalemate for a while now over our next family vehicle. We both want to "downsize" from our full-size MPV but she wants a small SUV like a RAV4/CRV/CX5 and I can't think of anything more boring. I'm not opposed to an SUV but if I'm going to go down that route, would prefer to do it properly with something like a Touareg, X5, Disco, Range Rover, Grand Cherokee or XC90. She says that they're all too "big" and expensive to run and to be fair, she has a point, as well as being older and higher mileage for our budget. If we're going to "downsize", I would rather go down the mid-size hot hatch/sporty estate route but she has got used to sitting up a bit higher now and likes it and says that estates are a pain to park because of the length.
However, recently we were without a vehicle for a couple of weeks and ended up in a Vauxhall Mokka hire car! Now hear me out here, like a lot of PHers, I've not really seen the point of or been a fan of the humble FWD crossover. It's a bit like an automotive "wonderbra", in that it looks like it might be able to tackle rough terrain but can't and yet doesn't go or handle as well as its hatchback equivalent. For the record, personally, I would still rather drive a mid-size hot hatch/small sporty estate car but having lived with a crossover for a couple of weeks and done a few overnight trips and long journeys in that time, I can start to see the merits in one as a family vehicle.
Firstly, you have a higher driving position than in a hatchback and therefore better visibililty, secondly it was very comfortable and spacious. For the record we were in a Fiesta for a few days before the Mokka until I hit a pothole and punctured the tyre and bent the rim (oops) and despite not having a much bigger footprint than the Fiesta, it was significantly more spacious and had a much bigger boot. Thirdly, it drove surprisingly well. Not brilliantly or as fun as the Fiesta but acceptably for A-B family transport and it absorbed the bumpy roads really well too. Finally, it seemed fairly good value. This one was a top Elite trim and listed at 25k (the Fiesta, a Titanium that lists at 20k) and I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually pick up a new Mokka Elite for 20k after discount and it's fully loaded - leather, heated seats, nav etc.
Being a crossover and a Vauxhall one at that, I was expecting to hate this car but when the 2 weeks were done, it had begrudgingly earned my respect. I don't think that this is the actual car that I would buy, the Mokka looks a little dated inside now, the plastics are a little scratchy and there are similar vehicles that I like the styling of better but my wife and kids liked it and I'm not opposed to a similar kind of vehicle when in all honesty, I'm not going to be the one driving it most of the time. It could actually play out in my favour, as it could potentially be cheaper than the other family car options and I've had my eye on an Up GTi/Fiesta ST for a while (there may even be enough in the budget for a cheap, secondhand sports car too)!
So, we've been looking at small crossovers. New/nearly-new, petrol, manual gearbox, doesn't have to be fully loaded but a few luxuries would be nice and we don't really want to spend more than 20k. As chance would have it, my father may also be in the market for a similar kind of vehicle, as he's looking for a replacement for his 2015 C3 Picasso. He would probably prioritise fuel economy (but doesn't want diesel) and ride comfort, whereas performance and handling are probably a bit higher up our list of criteria.
The ones that we quite like the look of are the Peugeot 2008, Renault Captur, VW T-Cross/T-Roc, Audi Q2, Hyundai Kona, Mazda CX3, Suzuki Vitara, Nissan Qashqai. Not being that familiar with the new car market, especially the crossover one, we would both be very grateful for any recommendations you may have or insight with respect to the above vehicles.
However, recently we were without a vehicle for a couple of weeks and ended up in a Vauxhall Mokka hire car! Now hear me out here, like a lot of PHers, I've not really seen the point of or been a fan of the humble FWD crossover. It's a bit like an automotive "wonderbra", in that it looks like it might be able to tackle rough terrain but can't and yet doesn't go or handle as well as its hatchback equivalent. For the record, personally, I would still rather drive a mid-size hot hatch/small sporty estate car but having lived with a crossover for a couple of weeks and done a few overnight trips and long journeys in that time, I can start to see the merits in one as a family vehicle.
Firstly, you have a higher driving position than in a hatchback and therefore better visibililty, secondly it was very comfortable and spacious. For the record we were in a Fiesta for a few days before the Mokka until I hit a pothole and punctured the tyre and bent the rim (oops) and despite not having a much bigger footprint than the Fiesta, it was significantly more spacious and had a much bigger boot. Thirdly, it drove surprisingly well. Not brilliantly or as fun as the Fiesta but acceptably for A-B family transport and it absorbed the bumpy roads really well too. Finally, it seemed fairly good value. This one was a top Elite trim and listed at 25k (the Fiesta, a Titanium that lists at 20k) and I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually pick up a new Mokka Elite for 20k after discount and it's fully loaded - leather, heated seats, nav etc.
Being a crossover and a Vauxhall one at that, I was expecting to hate this car but when the 2 weeks were done, it had begrudgingly earned my respect. I don't think that this is the actual car that I would buy, the Mokka looks a little dated inside now, the plastics are a little scratchy and there are similar vehicles that I like the styling of better but my wife and kids liked it and I'm not opposed to a similar kind of vehicle when in all honesty, I'm not going to be the one driving it most of the time. It could actually play out in my favour, as it could potentially be cheaper than the other family car options and I've had my eye on an Up GTi/Fiesta ST for a while (there may even be enough in the budget for a cheap, secondhand sports car too)!
So, we've been looking at small crossovers. New/nearly-new, petrol, manual gearbox, doesn't have to be fully loaded but a few luxuries would be nice and we don't really want to spend more than 20k. As chance would have it, my father may also be in the market for a similar kind of vehicle, as he's looking for a replacement for his 2015 C3 Picasso. He would probably prioritise fuel economy (but doesn't want diesel) and ride comfort, whereas performance and handling are probably a bit higher up our list of criteria.
The ones that we quite like the look of are the Peugeot 2008, Renault Captur, VW T-Cross/T-Roc, Audi Q2, Hyundai Kona, Mazda CX3, Suzuki Vitara, Nissan Qashqai. Not being that familiar with the new car market, especially the crossover one, we would both be very grateful for any recommendations you may have or insight with respect to the above vehicles.
I don't mind them. I done plenty of hot hatches, sports car etc and this year or next I'm looking to change.
The T-Roc is the top of the range but have a look at the SEAT Arona too as it's basically the same car (engine n chassis) but you get more stuff for your money.
My neighbour is waiting for delivery of her new TRoc this month since I put her onto them when she was looking for something to replace her 08 A3.
In a similar vein though, I've been looking at the current Polo or an Ibiza..
Oh..
The T-Roc is the top of the range but have a look at the SEAT Arona too as it's basically the same car (engine n chassis) but you get more stuff for your money.
My neighbour is waiting for delivery of her new TRoc this month since I put her onto them when she was looking for something to replace her 08 A3.
In a similar vein though, I've been looking at the current Polo or an Ibiza..
Oh..
A500leroy said:
had a look at the ford offerings?
maybe a stelvio? might be over budget tho.
Thanks. Yes, the Stelvio certainly appeals for that kind of vehicle but it will be well over 20k and I saw my first one the other day and it was a lot bigger than expected. As for the Fords, I really like the Fiesta and Focus but not such a fan of the Ecosport/Kuga/Edge.maybe a stelvio? might be over budget tho.
The only assistance I can give you, besides that the Mokka looks like a blancmange and will earn you the undying contempt of anyone under 75, is that I recently went on holiday to Fuerteventura and decided to try an SUV.
Well, it was a Fiat Panda Cross, to be precise but I thought it would be ideal for the unmade roads of Fuerteventura and I have always liked Pandas, in the past.
The short version is that while it did offer better ground clearance, the 2WD was rubbish (far worse than a C3 I had last time), it handled worse and i found it uncomfortable. Perhaps as a 4x4, they make more sense but as a 2WD, I would not hesitate to buy the cheaper normal hatch and, being cheaper, get a better or faster model for the same price.
In variably, the hatch always looks better - look at the Ecosport - a brick on wheels.
Well, it was a Fiat Panda Cross, to be precise but I thought it would be ideal for the unmade roads of Fuerteventura and I have always liked Pandas, in the past.
The short version is that while it did offer better ground clearance, the 2WD was rubbish (far worse than a C3 I had last time), it handled worse and i found it uncomfortable. Perhaps as a 4x4, they make more sense but as a 2WD, I would not hesitate to buy the cheaper normal hatch and, being cheaper, get a better or faster model for the same price.
In variably, the hatch always looks better - look at the Ecosport - a brick on wheels.
A500leroy said:
you do know you can 'active' versions of the focus/fiesta ( also in estate versions), ie the normal version just jacked up 50mm or so higher.
Fair point but I'm guessing they don't offer any improvement in interior/boot space over the regular Fiesta/Focus (but do offer the higher driving position).LuS1fer said:
The only assistance I can give you, besides that the Mokka looks like a blancmange and will earn you the undying contempt of anyone under 75, is that I recently went on holiday to Fuerteventura and decided to try an SUV.
Well, it was a Fiat Panda Cross, to be precise but I thought it would be ideal for the unmade roads of Fuerteventura and I have always liked Pandas, in the past.
The short version is that while it did offer better ground clearance, the 2WD was rubbish (far worse than a C3 I had last time), it handled worse and i found it uncomfortable. Perhaps as a 4x4, they make more sense but as a 2WD, I would not hesitate to buy the cheaper normal hatch and, being cheaper, get a better or faster model for the same price.
In variably, the hatch always looks better - look at the Ecosport - a brick on wheels.
I did notice that no-one would let me change lanes in the Mokka in slow-moving traffic. It was a Friday afternoon, so I just put it down to people being tired and grumpy but someone usually lets me in when I'm driving my MINI!Well, it was a Fiat Panda Cross, to be precise but I thought it would be ideal for the unmade roads of Fuerteventura and I have always liked Pandas, in the past.
The short version is that while it did offer better ground clearance, the 2WD was rubbish (far worse than a C3 I had last time), it handled worse and i found it uncomfortable. Perhaps as a 4x4, they make more sense but as a 2WD, I would not hesitate to buy the cheaper normal hatch and, being cheaper, get a better or faster model for the same price.
In variably, the hatch always looks better - look at the Ecosport - a brick on wheels.
Go hard or go home in my opinion, but that's only what I think. X5 isn't as expensive to run as you think. The thing with crossovers is that they are often smaller cars jacked up and re-bodied. E.g. mini countryman, X1, etc. They are smaller chassis and are based off standard hatchbacks, and don't really have that feeling of riding along in a full-blown SUV. For the masses, it is fine, but if you want more out of a car, I suggest at least a larger step up. XC90 is not that expensive to run, quite reliable if treated correctly. X5 can bite when repairs are around but other than that runs as normal. However, if it is for the wife, who may not be that bothered, it may be better to get a smaller crossover. SUV's solve the demands we want out of our cars as they do it all for us. They have very good performance and yet seat 7 people, with all the luxury you want out of that. It is like running two cars at once, there is the extra costs, but you have two cars. Simply put, a Zafira doesn't give the performance of a 5 series, but an X5 does, whilst doing what the zafira does at the same time.
But, as stated before, not many people care about performance today, and in that instance a small crossover is perfectly fine. I do like the German offerings however, slightly more but they often drive better and drive well, e.g. GLC, Q3, X1. If anything, the Q5 and X3 offer the perfect balance, not too big and expensive to bring those occasionally ruinous maintenance costs up, but the same, if not better performance of the larger models. You can get a X3 with the same 35d engine in the X5, but you will get significantly better MPG, with the plus side being it isn't that big. An A6 is longer in dimensions.
I do recommend the Touareg as well, the new ones look like some of the best design Volkswagen have put out yet, really boosted those cars upmarket. Just don't get an older discovery.
But, as stated before, not many people care about performance today, and in that instance a small crossover is perfectly fine. I do like the German offerings however, slightly more but they often drive better and drive well, e.g. GLC, Q3, X1. If anything, the Q5 and X3 offer the perfect balance, not too big and expensive to bring those occasionally ruinous maintenance costs up, but the same, if not better performance of the larger models. You can get a X3 with the same 35d engine in the X5, but you will get significantly better MPG, with the plus side being it isn't that big. An A6 is longer in dimensions.
I do recommend the Touareg as well, the new ones look like some of the best design Volkswagen have put out yet, really boosted those cars upmarket. Just don't get an older discovery.
I'm not a big fan of crossovers, my wife has one which hasn't been mentioned yet:-
Mini Countryman.
My wife wanted a Mini and we needed something of a reasonable size for her and two young kids so it was either the 5 door or the countryman.
My wife loves the car to bits, she wouldn't have anything else now, it is reasonably practical holding two kids with child seats in the back easily with reasonable front cabin space for two adults, I'd probably go so far as to say you could carry four adults in reasonable comfort, I think the upright seating position helps massively.
The only downside of it is the pretty small boot space but this seems to be a feature on many crossovers of a similar size, its pretty wqell screwed together and can be bought with a 4wd option though the wifes isn't.
I'd take my Volvo estate every day over the Mini but I can see the appeal, the Mini is far more practical than the father in laws Mokka too which feels very small inside in comparison.
Mini Countryman.
My wife wanted a Mini and we needed something of a reasonable size for her and two young kids so it was either the 5 door or the countryman.
My wife loves the car to bits, she wouldn't have anything else now, it is reasonably practical holding two kids with child seats in the back easily with reasonable front cabin space for two adults, I'd probably go so far as to say you could carry four adults in reasonable comfort, I think the upright seating position helps massively.
The only downside of it is the pretty small boot space but this seems to be a feature on many crossovers of a similar size, its pretty wqell screwed together and can be bought with a 4wd option though the wifes isn't.
I'd take my Volvo estate every day over the Mini but I can see the appeal, the Mini is far more practical than the father in laws Mokka too which feels very small inside in comparison.
PhilboSE said:
The Seat Ateca is on the same platform as the Audi Q2 and thanks to the "pack" approach on options you can get one fully loaded (either new or second hand) for way less money than much of the competition. It's been topping group tests in this "appliance" sector for a few years now.
Daughter has an Ateca SEL - paid under £20K and the spec is amazing, inc things stuff leather seats and LED headlights. The pack thing is great - meant quick delivery when Tiguans were on 6mths+ and I think I'd have bought it simply because metallic is no extra cost, I really hate paying extra for that.My Mrs has Mokka as a courtesy car whilst the insurers decided her car was a write off and wrote her a cheque.
The Mokka made her want a bigger car and now it looks like an AWD Kuga is on the cards. We drove one recently and in Titanium X spec, it felt like a luxurious mk2 Focus but with AWD, pretty good car really and much better than the Mokka that She had become bit fond of.
The Mokka made her want a bigger car and now it looks like an AWD Kuga is on the cards. We drove one recently and in Titanium X spec, it felt like a luxurious mk2 Focus but with AWD, pretty good car really and much better than the Mokka that She had become bit fond of.
We've got an Arona. 1.0 115ps Xcellence Lux model. I'd recommend it.
Bought whilst it was on a boat on the way here in September - got approx 12-13% off the list. We've now done approx 5k miles in it
It has a great (huge) spec... Electric everything, digital dash, ACC, blind spot stuff, Great infotainment, digital dash etc.
It sits nicely alongside the m135i... pic below:
Bought whilst it was on a boat on the way here in September - got approx 12-13% off the list. We've now done approx 5k miles in it
It has a great (huge) spec... Electric everything, digital dash, ACC, blind spot stuff, Great infotainment, digital dash etc.
It sits nicely alongside the m135i... pic below:
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