Category S write-off. Is "S" always for "Structural" ?

Category S write-off. Is "S" always for "Structural" ?

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steveharman

Original Poster:

13 posts

99 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
Apologues to some viewers, this might be a UK-specific post.

Assuming my budget was higher or cars were cheaper, I probably wouldn't consider a Category S (previously Cat C) repaired car, however...

The car I'm interested in carries a "Category S" and comes with a "certificate of professional repair". Initially, I started out thinking that the "S" in "Category S" always stood for "structural", however, several reputable motoring sites state "Category S: Repairs that cost more than the insurance company thought the vehicle was worth, *possibly* structural"

So does "S" not _always_ mean structural damage?

Thanks,

Steve

strath44

1,358 posts

147 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
This is the Gov official definitions:

https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...

There is a fair bit of confusion when the new system of Cat S & N came out over Cat C & D.

My personal experience of Cat S is that anything of that category has had the structural integrity of the body frame compromised for example pillars, inner wing, chassis legs etc etc etc generally parts that can't just be unbolted.

Both Cat S & N vehicles could be "written off" due to cost by insurance companies - for example if they are particularly new vehicles and parts are either in short supply or very expensive.

Cat N cars don't tend to have had a dash, seat or curtain airbag deployed.

If someone selling you a vehicle is guiding you down the route of thought that a Cat S hasn't had structural damage I would tend to very wary!

I wouldn't be happy buying any Cat designated vehicle unless I could see images prior to repair. I would rather have it damaged and get the repairs done.

This always is a bit of a taboo subject on here and there are a lot of people quick on trolling about the safety of Cat designated cars which is true and fair but on the flip side if you know what you are doing and what to look for its very interesting way of getting cars.

To give an example of a bad experience, there was a chap on hear probably a year back that bought a tidy Golf Gti mk7 I think. It was a damage repaired with a Cat designation. It developed a rattle around the headlining and when he tried to repair it turned out that one set of curtain airbags were gone! I think there was an issue with another airbag as well! For this reason you really want to know what happened and what work was done!

Edited by strath44 on Tuesday 16th July 10:15

coldel

7,638 posts

145 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
Which reputable garages are you speaking with?

https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...

I quickly googled it and Parkers, Autoexpress, RAC etc. all cite Cat S as almost certainly a structural write off that needs to be resubmitted to the DVLA to be put back on the road.

steveharman

Original Poster:

13 posts

99 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
I read a number of sites last night but one which somes to mind was a page on Parkers UK:

https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-advice/could-a-categ...

"Category S write-off - Repairable, but cost of repair is more than value of car. Possibly has some sort of structural damage (previously category C)"

Thanks for the replies.

coldel

7,638 posts

145 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
Also bear in mind Cat-S might be harder to insure than non-write offs.

What sort of car you looking at? I would be wary of say a Cat S Elise vs a Cat S Focus as I would imagine structure is more important when throwing an Elise around vs the weekly shop run in the Focus!

KTF

9,766 posts

149 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
Cat S is structural but they can be repaired.

However, unless it is a rare car and/or you plan to run it in to the ground, I would avoid as it will be very difficult to sell on regardless of the certificate.

strath44

1,358 posts

147 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
KTF said:
Cat S is structural but they can be repaired.

However, unless it is a rare car and/or you plan to run it in to the ground, I would avoid as it will be very difficult to sell on regardless of the certificate.
This is a good point you really don't want to be going near run of the mill Cat cars such as Focus, Astra, Insignia etc etc. The residuals are so poor that it will be worth peanuts when you sell it which won't be easy!

Insurance is generally not much of a problem I've found some insurers just say no but phone around and someone will. Bear in mind they adjust significantly downward for the fact a car has already had a claim against it.

Unless you know a fair bit about cars its not the sort of vehicles you want to start going round looking at - purely so you can spot the signs of a poor repair!

datum77

470 posts

120 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
ANY vehicle that has a category A, B, C, D, S or N attributed to it has been "written off" by an insurance company. A or B are vehicles that have more or less been destroyed. Cat C, D, S, or N are vehicles that are considered by the insurance company NOT to be worth repairing - from THEIR point of view. Usually the damage is what would appear to a laymen to be very minor. It may not be minor......

The problem for you, kind Sir, is that you will have NO IDEA whatsoever as to how serious the damage was, despite it being classed in a very low category. (And the seller spinning you some yarn about it, "only needed a new wing") !!!!

The second problem for you is that you SHOULD buy this vehicle at it's CAT S value. Too many people consider that once a written off vehicle has been repaired to it's pre-accident condition - it is then worth somewhere near to the same value as a "clean" vehicle. NO IT AIN'T!!!!!!!

That stigma, (I call it a nasty smell), is stuck with the vehicle, FOR THE REST OF IT'S LIFE. and a
consequential value is also fixed to the vehicle for the rest of it's life.

This means that a "clean" vehicle that has a garage forecourt value of, say, £8000, and a trade value of, say, £6500, has a category write off value of circa £3000-£3500. THATS THE REALITY.

It will possibly also be more expensive and difficult to insure the vehicle, as the whole of the British insurance industry will be aware of it's history.

My advice :- don't go anywhere near ANY category C, D, S, or N write-offs. Unless you will be keeping the vehicle for a very long time.....


steveharman

Original Poster:

13 posts

99 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
marvelous. Thanks for all the responses, I think I know my direction now..... a different car. ;-)

Gerradi

1,520 posts

119 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
quotequote all
datum77 said:
ANY vehicle that has a category A, B, C, D, S or N attributed to it has been "written off" by an insurance company. A or B are vehicles that have more or less been destroyed. Cat C, D, S, or N are vehicles that are considered by the insurance company NOT to be worth repairing - from THEIR point of view. Usually the damage is what would appear to a laymen to be very minor. It may not be minor......

The problem for you, kind Sir, is that you will have NO IDEA whatsoever as to how serious the damage was, despite it being classed in a very low category. (And the seller spinning you some yarn about it, "only needed a new wing") !!!!

The second problem for you is that you SHOULD buy this vehicle at it's CAT S value. Too many people consider that once a written off vehicle has been repaired to it's pre-accident condition - it is then worth somewhere near to the same value as a "clean" vehicle. NO IT AIN'T!!!!!!!

That stigma, (I call it a nasty smell), is stuck with the vehicle, FOR THE REST OF IT'S LIFE. and a
consequential value is also fixed to the vehicle for the rest of it's life.

This means that a "clean" vehicle that has a garage forecourt value of, say, £8000, and a trade value of, say, £6500, has a category write off value of circa £3000-£3500. THATS THE REALITY.

It will possibly also be more expensive and difficult to insure the vehicle, as the whole of the British insurance industry will be aware of it's history.

My advice :- don't go anywhere near ANY category C, D, S, or N write-offs. Unless you will be keeping the vehicle for a very long time.....
If you buy the car knowing it to be a Cat C/D etc & are satisfied with the amount of damage that was caused by the accident ,if any. then you pay between 30 - 45% less, when (if) you sell it it you sell it for the same % less , no big deal. I have insured 2 cat cars & had no problems whatso ever with insuring them.

Mr Tidy

22,037 posts

126 months

Wednesday 17th July 2019
quotequote all
Actually my recent experience seems to suggest that the insurers don't know how to categorise "write-offs"! (Or more likely can't be bothered).

A relative had an accident in an E46 3 Series last year that only needed a front wing and a bonnet, but his "senior naval person" insurer decided it was a Cat S based solely on the photos he took on his phone!

But damage to 2 bolted on panels should have been a Cat N as I understand the ABI categories - even if the insurers don't seem to understand them. banghead

Given what the insurer offered though it didn't seem worth fighting, even if they were completely wrong!

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Wednesday 17th July 2019
quotequote all
As above: theory and practice are very different,

Simply quoting poor websites like Parkers, or even the ABI, doesnt show a great grasp of the topic.