Test drove an iPace and a Tesla S

[Tiggsy]

I know they are not pitted against each other - but I need boot space and they are both perfect for my dogs (unlike the Tesla 3)

And I get the price is different and if you have Jag budget you can't get the Tesla....but if you have Tesla budget you could get the Jag...and I wanted to, if only because I've never had a Jag.

But after a day with the iPace (top marks to Jag for their test drive process.....sent an email, car turns up few days later and they come back to get it at the end of the day - no hard sell, no soft sell......er....no sell, they just quietly gave me a car for a day!) I can't get over the lack of excitement.

I gave it back thinking "hmm...nice quick car" - I gave the Tesla back thinking I'd just been for a ride in a fking spaceship.

And to nail down the coffin.....my snowflake leftie kids (who all think my V8 AMG is a noisey lump killing the planet) think getting a Tesla makes me the coolest dad in the world. Getting a Jag, doesn't.

Being a Tesla salesman just seems to be a process of saying.....when these lights change from red, plant your foot.....sold another one boss.

[Dave Hedgehog]

I recently drove a M3 and iPace back to back

Love the iPace exterior and interior design, the spaceship noise it makes, the fact it has CarPlay / android auto but it was just so dull to drive (very competent). Worst was the totally horrible dead zone on the brake pedal, it made smooth braking impossible and occasionally panic that the bloody thing wouldn’t stop. I had normal braking pressure applied when I started it and the poxy thing shot forward.

This maybe because I’m used to AMG / RS cars where 1mm of brake travel gives you substantial braking.

The Tesla was a total shock, it was fun from the get go. It made me smile. I was truly surprised at how good it was to drive.

I don’t like the old fashioned infotainment in the tesla and the buying process is a total st show.

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Saturday 31st August 06:18

[hyphen]

Tiggsy said:

I know they are not pitted against each other - but I need boot space and they are both perfect for my dogs (unlike the Tesla 3)..

Why not the X?

[anonymous-user]

The problem i have with both the ipace and the Tesla is that they simply don't feel that special for their price point! Ok, this i mainly because i'm a cheapskate and the thought of spending 60 large on a car is horrifying, but compared to something like an BMW M3, neither car are at all special to look at or be in. Tesla is the worst because it's so bland and feels, well, cheap if i 'm honest.

Ok, this isn't a totally fair comparison, because the BMW M3 (btw, PH can we start calling the Tesla Model 3 the TM3 to avoid confusion with the M3!!) is a sporting car, and so has been honed to feel like one, whereas the Teslas and iPace are really large saloons first and foremost, that just happen to be quite fast, but even in comparison to say a 340i, both the EVs feel a bit, well, dull (and it's nothing to do with being electric and everything to do with their overal tuning and atribute set)

[gangzoom]

Max_Torque said:

the Teslas and iPace are really large saloons first and foremost, that just happen to be quite fast, but even in comparison to say a 340i, both the EVs feel a bit, well, dull

That's the most hilarious thing I've read in a while. I had go spend £2k on a Quaife LSD and than another £2k on aftermaket suspension to my old 335i behave sensibly on a B road. Stock it was awful. I was so close to selling it after just a few weeks of ownership and if it wasn't for the massive mod community I would have.

I've not driven and iPace, but have a Model S. Yes you can feel the weight of the S especially in rapid changes of direction but for 8/10th 'pressing on' driving on a public road its far better than a stock E90 335i.

My main complaint of the Tesla drivetrain is its too good, what ever the road surface, camber, wetness you the car just goes when you press the your right foot. Theres no wheel spin, no tail wiggle, no fear been spat into a tree, not even revs to worry about, it just goes and very quickly. That may be a 'problem' with all AWD cars, but I do miss the need to at least think twice about deploying all that power.

The RWD Model S/Model 3 do seem quite lively though, and I wonder if Tesla developed a 'B road' mode for those cars it would help bring back some fear/respect for the amount of power these things can deploy so quickly.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 31st August 18:14

[anonymous-user]

gangzoom said:

Max_Torque said:

the Teslas and iPace are really large saloons first and foremost, that just happen to be quite fast, but even in comparison to say a 340i, both the EVs feel a bit, well, dull

That's the most hilarious thing I've read in a while. I had go spend £2k on a Quaife LSD and than another £2k on aftermaket suspension to my old 335i behave sensibly on a B road. Stock it was awful. I was so close to selling it after just a few weeks of ownership and if it wasn't for the massive mod community I would have.

I've not driven and iPace, but have a Model S. Yes you can feel the weight of the S especially in rapid changes of direction but for 8/10th 'pressing on' driving on a public road its far better than a stock E90 335i.

My main complaint of the Tesla drivetrain is its too good, what ever the road surface, camber, wetness you the car just goes when you press the your right foot. Theres no wheel spin, no tail wiggle, no fear been spat into a tree, not even revs to worry about, it just goes and very quickly. That may be a 'problem' with all AWD cars, but I do miss the need to at least think twice about deploying all that power.

The RWD Model S/Model 3 do seem quite lively though, and I wonder if Tesla developed a 'B road' mode for those cars it would help bring back some fear/respect for the amount of power these things can deploy so quickly.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 31st August 18:14

I guess traction would be quite good when you’re dragging 2.5 tonnes around.

Likely you’re not actually going as fast as you think you are, too..........

[hyphen]

gangzoom said:

My main complaint of the Tesla drivetrain is its too good, what ever the road surface, camber, wetness you the car just goes when you press the your right foot. Theres no wheel spin, no tail wiggle, no fear been spat into a tree, not even revs to worry about, it just goes and very quickly. That may be a 'problem' with all AWD cars, but I do miss the need to at least think twice about deploying all that power.

They fixed that, but snowflake reviewers complained https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-model-s-u...

[anonymous-user]

gangzoom said:

Max_Torque said:

the Teslas and iPace are really large saloons first and foremost, that just happen to be quite fast, but even in comparison to say a 340i, both the EVs feel a bit, well, dull

That's the most hilarious thing I've read in a while. I had go spend £2k on a Quaife LSD and than another £2k on aftermaket suspension to my old 335i behave sensibly on a B road. Stock it was awful. I was so close to selling it after just a few weeks of ownership and if it wasn't for the massive mod community I would have.

I've not driven and iPace, but have a Model S. Yes you can feel the weight of the S especially in rapid changes of direction but for 8/10th 'pressing on' driving on a public road its far better than a stock E90 335i.

My main complaint of the Tesla drivetrain is its too good, what ever the road surface, camber, wetness you the car just goes when you press the your right foot. Theres no wheel spin, no tail wiggle, no fear been spat into a tree, not even revs to worry about, it just goes and very quickly. That may be a 'problem' with all AWD cars, but I do miss the need to at least think twice about deploying all that power.

The RWD Model S/Model 3 do seem quite lively though, and I wonder if Tesla developed a 'B road' mode for those cars it would help bring back some fear/respect for the amount of power these things can deploy so quickly.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 31st August 18:14

I suspect you have missed my point entirely i'm afraid!

It's got nothing to do with ability, (handling, traction or performance) or anything like that, objective or subjective. No, the point i was making is simply about desirability and feeling "special" as a purchase, where something like a 340i is miles ahead. Now sure, a 340i isn't a sports car (it's not trying to be) but it does feel special, it's well built, and looks good, and walk around it, and you'll find lots of nice little detail touches that do make it feel special. A Tesla Model 3 by comparison feels less special than a mondeo by the same token ime,

[SWoll]

Max_Torque said:

I suspect you have missed my point entirely i'm afraid!

It's got nothing to do with ability, (handling, traction or performance) or anything like that, objective or subjective. No, the point i was making is simply about desirability and feeling "special" as a purchase, where something like a 340i is miles ahead. Now sure, a 340i isn't a sports car (it's not trying to be) but it does feel special, it's well built, and looks good, and walk around it, and you'll find lots of nice little detail touches that do make it feel special. A Tesla Model 3 by comparison feels less special than a mondeo by the same token ime,

So utterly subjective then?

[SWoll]

REALIST123 said:

I guess traction would be quite good when you’re dragging 2.5 tonnes around.

Likely you’re not actually going as fast as you think you are, too..........

Weight has little or nothing to do with it, EV's are of course heavier but really not by all that much when compared to similar sized ICE cars.

It's the way EV's deliver the power and how quickly the traction control can alter how much is sent to the wheels if slip is detected that is much better than ICE for launches. Essentially EV's are just far more efficient at using the power they do have.

[RobDickinson]

Dave Hedgehog said:

I recently drove a M3 and iPace back to back

Love the iPace exterior and interior design. Worst was the totally horrible dead zone on the brake pedal, it made smooth braking impossible and occasionally panic that the bloody thing wouldn’t stop. I had normal braking pressure applied when I started it and the poxy thing shot forward.

AFIK they had a serious brake issue where it wouldnt even engage the friction brakes for up to 1.5 seconds, its fixed now I think but needed a recall, this might have been the problem

[Dave Hedgehog]

RobDickinson said:

AFIK they had a serious brake issue where it wouldnt even engage the friction brakes for up to 1.5 seconds, its fixed now I think but needed a recall, this might have been the problem

It was a dealer car about 4 weeks ago but that sounds exactly like the problem

[RobDickinson]

Dave Hedgehog said:

RobDickinson said:

AFIK they had a serious brake issue where it wouldnt even engage the friction brakes for up to 1.5 seconds, its fixed now I think but needed a recall, this might have been the problem

It was a dealer car about 4 weeks ago but that sounds exactly like the problem

I'm surprised a bit, either they didnt fix it, didnt know to fix it, or it is fixed and still crap?

[bimjim]

RobDickinson said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

RobDickinson said:

AFIK they had a serious brake issue where it wouldnt even engage the friction brakes for up to 1.5 seconds, its fixed now I think but needed a recall, this might have been the problem

It was a dealer car about 4 weeks ago but that sounds exactly like the problem

I'm surprised a bit, either they didnt fix it, didnt know to fix it, or it is fixed and still crap?

The recall was to fix an issue which may arise, if there were a complete failure of the regenerative braking system. The last I heard, there had been no such failures reported. So this sounds like a different issue.

[anonymous-user]

SWoll said:

Max_Torque said:

I suspect you have missed my point entirely i'm afraid!

It's got nothing to do with ability, (handling, traction or performance) or anything like that, objective or subjective. No, the point i was making is simply about desirability and feeling "special" as a purchase, where something like a 340i is miles ahead. Now sure, a 340i isn't a sports car (it's not trying to be) but it does feel special, it's well built, and looks good, and walk around it, and you'll find lots of nice little detail touches that do make it feel special. A Tesla Model 3 by comparison feels less special than a mondeo by the same token ime,

So utterly subjective then?

yes, completely, but that's what sells cars!


Try it, go into a BMW showroom and have a look around the M3.

Now do the same in the Tesla showroom with the TM3




Report back with your thoughts! :-)

[anonymous-user]

Sambucket said:

Because you are paying for superior technology under the hood. The actual car part of the 340i costs much less to make, so there is more to spend on pointless trim and decor.

I don't think that's the reason. It more because the big "classic" OEs like BMW have a longer history of selling cars, and they know very well indeed what makes a car look and feel special, and what makes a sale! Lets face it, BMW are the masters are shifting a metric sh*tload of 320d's entirely on the back of selling about 5 M3's, due to the halo effect!

[manracer]

I picked up my model 3 yesterday and was very amused to find out just how lively it can be this morning after it had been raining and the roads were still damp! 😆

[Dave Hedgehog]

bimjim said:

The recall was to fix an issue which may arise, if there were a complete failure of the regenerative braking system. The last I heard, there had been no such failures reported. So this sounds like a different issue.

It’s like the first 15% of brake pedal travel does not actually engage the brakes, I think I read the leaf does the same ?

[Dave Hedgehog]

Some interesting points raised about bmw and that many people buying them purely for shiny bauble / badge reasons over what is the more fun car to drive

https://youtu.be/xpFe8k1vjcg

Even monkey smiled driving the M3P which does allow some slip and slide

https://youtu.be/ZXquGvwzcxE

[gangzoom]

Max_Torque said:

I suspect you have missed my point entirely i'm afraid!

It's got nothing to do with ability, (handling, traction or performance) or anything like that, objective or subjective. No, the point i was making is simply about desirability and feeling "special" as a purchase, where something like a 340i is miles ahead. Now sure, a 340i isn't a sports car (it's not trying to be) but it does feel special, it's well built, and looks good, and walk around it, and you'll find lots of nice little detail touches that do make it feel special. A Tesla Model 3 by comparison feels less special than a mondeo by the same token ime,

So even an iPace doesn't feel as a good as a 340i if you want squishy plastics??

Actually the point of 'drama' is probably valid,

Tiff nails it as usual, for absolute 'drama' these AWD drivetrains are simply too good for public roads, he looks like he might as well be asleep when keeping up with Alfa which is wagging its tail like a puppy......But you can deny the ultimate pace of these things is mad.

Am still convinced a high powered RWD Model 3 with some slippage programmed into the TC software can be as fun on a B road as any other good RWD combustion car. Just a shame Tesla doesn't sell it to us any more

https://youtu.be/tBCFOQP7kW0