First house - what to do with information from seller's
Discussion
Moving through the process of purchasing our first house (1914 end terrace). Just received the responses to the seller's questionnaire from our solicitors. There are a few pieces of information in it that have given me pause for thought but I don't know what to do with the information.
The most obvious potential issue is the central heating - it seems very old and hasn't been serviced in 10 years. Should I be asking for it to be serviced/examined and a report provided that it is in good health? Should I assume it needs replaced?
Electrics - should I be checking when it was last rewired? How old is too old? Worth getting an electrical inspection?
I am getting a full building survey next week but presumably won't check any of the above?
Thanks!
- Two storey extension build in the mid 1980s - Council apparently no longer keep planning permission records and vendors have no paperwork
- Rear one storey extension build in 2007 - apparently exempt from building regulations.
- Property has not been rewired or had any electrical installation work carried out since 1 January 2005. No note of when any electrical work was last done. It hasn't been recently inspected.
- Heating system (mains gas central heating) was installed in 1982. It was last serviced in 2009. It is apparently in good working order. There is no copy of the last inspection report.
The most obvious potential issue is the central heating - it seems very old and hasn't been serviced in 10 years. Should I be asking for it to be serviced/examined and a report provided that it is in good health? Should I assume it needs replaced?
Electrics - should I be checking when it was last rewired? How old is too old? Worth getting an electrical inspection?
I am getting a full building survey next week but presumably won't check any of the above?
Thanks!
Who says Planning keep no records? They won't be available online, that far back, but most will retain paper or microfiche copies at their offices. Though if that old (or, indeed >4 years), it is immune to enforcement action, anyway.
Unless the extension falls within the rules for a conservatory or porch, then it's not exempt from Building Regulations. Though, again, there's very little they can do about it, after that length of time.
Electrics and heating are symptomatic of general neglect - treat with the same degree of caution that you'd apply to buying a car with no stamped service history.... it may be fine, but more likely it's been run by someone without the resources to properly maintain it, and there could be other nasties waiting to raise their head.
Unless the extension falls within the rules for a conservatory or porch, then it's not exempt from Building Regulations. Though, again, there's very little they can do about it, after that length of time.
Electrics and heating are symptomatic of general neglect - treat with the same degree of caution that you'd apply to buying a car with no stamped service history.... it may be fine, but more likely it's been run by someone without the resources to properly maintain it, and there could be other nasties waiting to raise their head.
According to vendor they spoke with the Council who said they have no records from the 1980s. Perhaps it is worth me giving their planning department a call. Though actually based on your comment and a quick Google it seems it is sufficiently old that it cannot be challenged.
Equus said:
Electrics and heating are symptomatic of general neglect - treat with the same degree of caution that you'd apply to buying a car with no stamped service history.... it may be fine, but more likely it's been run by someone without the resources to properly maintain it, and there could be other nasties waiting to raise their head.
I agree with this - presumably it is not a reason to consider pulling out of the purchase, but is it worth a price chip? Is that poor form? Presumably worse case scenario is a new central heating system (5-10k?) and a rewire (5-10k?). So what discount would one want? Or should I say vendor should pay for an inspection? Or should I pay for an inspection? Edited by Bussolini on Tuesday 10th December 23:49
I would certainly.be budgeting for a new central heating system if it's been in since the 80's. The electrics I would be less concerned about but pop open a socket and switch and see if the work that was carried out in 05 included a rewire rather than just a new consumer unit. The wiring colours past 04 should be brown and blue not red and black.
If you plan on keeping the existing heating system I would get a gas engineer to carry out a safety inspection and service. If you wanted to test the electrics you will require what's called a periodic inspection.
If you plan on keeping the existing heating system I would get a gas engineer to carry out a safety inspection and service. If you wanted to test the electrics you will require what's called a periodic inspection.
Bussolini said:
Note electrical work is just nothing done since 2005 - not that something was done in 2005. Suspect new regs or something came in 1 January 2005 hence relevance of that date?
2005 was when Part P of the Building Regulations came into force.I'm struggling to see what reasonable grounds you have for chipping the price.
Perhaps any perceived cost of not having the CH serviced? But does it cause any long term damage, perhaps corrosion in the pipework if the corrosion inhibitor has failed over time.
Any inspection of the CH will be cautious simply because of the age, you could also say that if it's run for ten years without any fettling that it must be fairly robust.
An electrical inspection will tell you it's not up to current regulations, but maybe wise to at least check it's safe.
It's worth bearing in mind that the obsession for paperwork to back up everything that's ever been done to a house is a fairly recent thing. It's not unusual for long term homeowners who don't read internet forums not to have any.
It is difficult with an old house as everything will be of a certain age, it's difficult to asses your ongoing risk. Ownership can be as expensive as you want to make it, but presumably you see some benefit over buying something a bit newer?
Perhaps any perceived cost of not having the CH serviced? But does it cause any long term damage, perhaps corrosion in the pipework if the corrosion inhibitor has failed over time.
Any inspection of the CH will be cautious simply because of the age, you could also say that if it's run for ten years without any fettling that it must be fairly robust.
An electrical inspection will tell you it's not up to current regulations, but maybe wise to at least check it's safe.
It's worth bearing in mind that the obsession for paperwork to back up everything that's ever been done to a house is a fairly recent thing. It's not unusual for long term homeowners who don't read internet forums not to have any.
It is difficult with an old house as everything will be of a certain age, it's difficult to asses your ongoing risk. Ownership can be as expensive as you want to make it, but presumably you see some benefit over buying something a bit newer?
Bussolini said:
Okay. Should I look to negotiate price or ask vendor to fund a survey is key Q though.
Note electrical work is just nothing done since 2005 - not that something was done in 2005. Suspect new regs or something came in 1 January 2005 hence relevance of that date?
If you want to have a survey then get one done, I am not sure why the vendor should pay for it though? Generally if electrics work then homeowners do not have anything done to them, my dad has had his house almost 50 years and the electrics have been untouched with no paperwork to testify to their safety.Note electrical work is just nothing done since 2005 - not that something was done in 2005. Suspect new regs or something came in 1 January 2005 hence relevance of that date?
Bussolini said:
Open to views, I really don't know what the done thing is. To me a 38 yr old central heating system with no servicing in 10 years is a bit of a red flag though
They don't do much when they service it, cleaning out the burner and checking for a clean combustion are the main things. Have a service done to give you peace of mind then forget it. KISS. Bussolini said:
Open to views, I really don't know what the done thing is. To me a 38 yr old central heating system with no servicing in 10 years is a bit of a red flag though
It might work fine,but will probably be very inefficient.I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
Turn7 said:
It might work fine,but will probably be very inefficient.
I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
Thing is, how much is a new system? We are already mentally budgeting for a full redecoration, new kitchen and two new bathrooms in due course. Factor in a new central heating system and that's a lot of moolah and suddenly I wonder if a slightly more expensive house up front is better value...theres one down the road that looks a lot more modern up for similar cash...I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
I am minded to get it serviced and crack on though. Might ask vendor to pay for it - one service is now is cheaper than one service a year for the last ten years!
Turn7 said:
Bussolini said:
Open to views, I really don't know what the done thing is. To me a 38 yr old central heating system with no servicing in 10 years is a bit of a red flag though
It might work fine,but will probably be very inefficient.I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
Bussolini said:
Turn7 said:
It might work fine,but will probably be very inefficient.
I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
Thing is, how much is a new system? We are already mentally budgeting for a full redecoration, new kitchen and two new bathrooms in due course. Factor in a new central heating system and that's a lot of moolah...I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
I am minded to get it serviced and crack on though. Might ask vendor to pay for it - one service is now is cheaper than one service a year for the last ten years!
greygoose said:
Turn7 said:
Bussolini said:
Open to views, I really don't know what the done thing is. To me a 38 yr old central heating system with no servicing in 10 years is a bit of a red flag though
It might work fine,but will probably be very inefficient.I’d be budgeting a new system ,if only for efficiency reasons.
If it was me personally I'd be getting an electrical safety check (£50-80 IIRC) this will confirm its safe at least albeit not up to Part P and I'd be keeping a fighting fund for the heating and see how that goes
If you are planning on doing it up anyway then getting a rewire might be worth it while the place is in chaos, but in the area you are looking at I'd be surprised if you found too many places with bang up to date wiring
If you are planning on doing it up anyway then getting a rewire might be worth it while the place is in chaos, but in the area you are looking at I'd be surprised if you found too many places with bang up to date wiring
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