Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 5]
Discussion
captain_cynic said:
It isn't carte blanche though, you won't get away with murder, broken bones are fair game though.
Does self defence not just have to be proportional though?ie plain clothes police in the above scenario pointing a gun at you - running them over probably a reasonable defence against being shot?
Trackdayer said:
If we really do live in a "man's world" where men benefit from things like the "patriarchy" - why do so many more men "transition" to women than vice versa? Surely women would be desparate to "become men"?
Because that's not how it works. People no more decide to be trans than they decide to be gay. Psycho Warren said:
Cool I wondered as a few years back I foiled a car jacking attempt on a nice offroader I had by pushing one car enough out the way so I could drive onto the pavement to escape. The police at the time had no problem with that as long as i didn't endanger people using the pavement.
Sounds like a story that needs to be told in greater detail!Psycho Warren said:
Is it possible to use self defence laws to mitigate against a wrongful arrest or excessive force used by the police?
Say a case of mistaken identity, the police are looking for a terrorist, your vehicle matches the description. Due to it being a counter terror op, they are plain clothed in unmarked vehicles.
They do a hard stop on you, to all intents and purposes it looks like you are being attacked by assailants unknown so you floor it, ram through the barracade and flee the scene. The cops fire at you in the process assuming you may try and run one of them over.
When they eventually catch up and arrest you (presumably with marked units so you stop as might be reasonably expected), they will very quickly realise they have got the wrong guy. Would you be able to use the self defence laws to cover the fact you rammed your way out of the road block on the grounds you felt your life was in danger - reinforced by the fact they opened fire.
In any other situation had it not been cops, it would be "reasonable" to use a vehicle as a weapon in that way to save your life as long as you believed you were in danger.
Do you loose that right to claim self defence just because they were cops?
Or would it come down to finer details like "should you have reasonably assumed they were cops" or was it reasonable for you to hear any shouted warnings or see the chequer on a police baseball cap they would have donned as they exited the vehicle all the while in a high stress situation?
Asking for a friend obviously........
https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/4870855.met-pol...Say a case of mistaken identity, the police are looking for a terrorist, your vehicle matches the description. Due to it being a counter terror op, they are plain clothed in unmarked vehicles.
They do a hard stop on you, to all intents and purposes it looks like you are being attacked by assailants unknown so you floor it, ram through the barracade and flee the scene. The cops fire at you in the process assuming you may try and run one of them over.
When they eventually catch up and arrest you (presumably with marked units so you stop as might be reasonably expected), they will very quickly realise they have got the wrong guy. Would you be able to use the self defence laws to cover the fact you rammed your way out of the road block on the grounds you felt your life was in danger - reinforced by the fact they opened fire.
In any other situation had it not been cops, it would be "reasonable" to use a vehicle as a weapon in that way to save your life as long as you believed you were in danger.
Do you loose that right to claim self defence just because they were cops?
Or would it come down to finer details like "should you have reasonably assumed they were cops" or was it reasonable for you to hear any shouted warnings or see the chequer on a police baseball cap they would have donned as they exited the vehicle all the while in a high stress situation?
Asking for a friend obviously........
Killed surveillance officer and got off.
Trackdayer said:
Does self defence not just have to be proportional though?
Proportional to what?The short answer is no
The long answer is no and never rely on the Daily Mail to explain anything.
It is a common myth that you aren't permitted to use more force than your attacker or more force than absolutely nessasary, these are incorrect.
The CPS guidelines on self defence is the response is based on how much of a threat the defender felt the attacker represented. It is entirely subjective, so there is no objectice measure for it to be proportional to.
Here are the guidelines:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence...
Trackdayer said:
ie plain clothes police in the above scenario pointing a gun at you - running them over probably a reasonable defence against being shot?
The first thing a plain clothes rozzer must do is identify themselves. If they fail to do that you're golden (how would a reasonable man know he was a copper if they didn't show a badge). However as a self defence practitioner (Krav) if someone has a gun pointed at you it's far too late. At that point just give up. If they've got the gun out and ready your defensive reaction was so badly delayed that Southern Rail has made your reaction it's new CEO.
captain_cynic said:
However as a self defence practitioner (Krav) if someone has a gun pointed at you it's far too late. At that point just give up. If they've got the gun out and ready your defensive reaction was so badly delayed that Southern Rail has made your reaction it's new CEO.
captain_cynic said:
Trackdayer said:
Does self defence not just have to be proportional though?
Proportional to what?The short answer is no
The long answer is no and never rely on the Daily Mail to explain anything.
It is a common myth that you aren't permitted to use more force than your attacker or more force than absolutely nessasary, these are incorrect.
The CPS guidelines on self defence is the response is based on how much of a threat the defender felt the attacker represented. It is entirely subjective, so there is no objectice measure for it to be proportional to.
Here are the guidelines:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence...
Trackdayer said:
ie plain clothes police in the above scenario pointing a gun at you - running them over probably a reasonable defence against being shot?
The first thing a plain clothes rozzer must do is identify themselves. If they fail to do that you're golden (how would a reasonable man know he was a copper if they didn't show a badge). However as a self defence practitioner (Krav) if someone has a gun pointed at you it's far too late. At that point just give up. If they've got the gun out and ready your defensive reaction was so badly delayed that Southern Rail has made your reaction it's new CEO.
Each case on his merits, I know, but waving 'a badge' at someone can't surely can't be the universal 'ok, he's still not stopped, now we can shoot him' trigger?
Trackdayer said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Because that's not how it works. People no more decide to be trans than they decide to be gay.
Okay, say that were true, you'd still expect there to be a roughly 50/50 mix of M2F and F2M?There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
SpeckledJim said:
Why? It's a biological thing, not a 'wishing' thing.
There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
Okay if we believe it's biological and not a choice... surely an equal number of men would be "born in the wrong gender" as women?There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
It just seems rather unlikely that it's so lop-sided. Even more so given we are constantly told how hard a time women have in life.
Trackdayer said:
SpeckledJim said:
Why? It's a biological thing, not a 'wishing' thing.
There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
Okay if we believe it's biological and not a choice... surely an equal number of men would be "born in the wrong gender" as women?There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
It just seems rather unlikely that it's so lop-sided. Even more so given we are constantly told how hard a time women have in life.
The world is set-up for right-handers, so why don't all left handed people just change? Because it's not about choosing.
If you were born with brain type A in body type B, caused by a biological process or circumstance, then that's not necessarily the same as being born with brain type B in body A type .
Not the thread. If the above is not good enough, we'll have to leave it there.
Evoluzione said:
48k said:
Evoluzione said:
Is there a special Satnav for HGVs?
Ordinary 'Nav could send a large truck down a small road it couldn't fit down...
Yes.Ordinary 'Nav could send a large truck down a small road it couldn't fit down...
AstonZagato said:
Sounds like a story that needs to be told in greater detail!
Not much more to it. It was over 10 years ago now. I was driving through a slightly dodgy area in birmingham one evening and as i approached a set of red lights, a couple of cars I had noticed approaching fast from behind tried to block me in as i came up to the lights. Bunch of lads with bats got out and i floored it pushing one car forward a few feet to make room to drive over the pavement. Fortunately I had stopped about 20m before the lights as otherwise i would have been screwed due to the traffic light pole on the pavement edge at the junction. I sped off and they didn't pursue. Off road bumper had only a few paint scuffs to the surface. Trackdayer said:
Does self defence not just have to be proportional though?
ie plain clothes police in the above scenario pointing a gun at you - running them over probably a reasonable defence against being shot?
Yeah thats what i was thinking. Lethal force met with potentially lethal force. ie plain clothes police in the above scenario pointing a gun at you - running them over probably a reasonable defence against being shot?
captain_cynic said:
However as a self defence practitioner (Krav) if someone has a gun pointed at you it's far too late. At that point just give up.
Unless you are driving in a tactically defensive manner you are unlikely to really realise whats going on initially as you emergency brake to stop a collision. For most people, by the time the cops jump out the cars they are probably only just realising its not just some bellend in a audi. Also in most modern cars, if you have some tunes on at any reasonable volume, you are unlikely to make out the initial "police stop" or whatever warning they are making. Also if they are plain clothed, they will likely have a black police baseball cap which doesn't stand out that much. Also black body armour over civvy clothing won't stand out at a glance either. Often the police logo is quite small. All easily missed in the initial stages when the average joe is thinking "WTF is going on"
Only takes someone a bit more tactically aware, or paranoid as fk (hypervigilant in real terms) to quickly make the assumption they are under attack from hostiles unknown and try to escape. Sure allowing a couple more seconds to decide you would probably see the badges as you focus better and more likely hear the warnings and realise whats going on. But that is not always the reality.
Also on the assumption you are being attacked and your life is in danger, you aren't going to just give up and let yourself get killed. You would always try and escape or fight back, even if only to take some of the enemy with you.
Trackdayer said:
SpeckledJim said:
Why? It's a biological thing, not a 'wishing' thing.
There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
Okay if we believe it's biological and not a choice... surely an equal number of men would be "born in the wrong gender" as women?There's no reason why one direction has to be in balance with the other.
Only 10% of us are left handed.
It just seems rather unlikely that it's so lop-sided. Even more so given we are constantly told how hard a time women have in life.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
This made one come to mind, where does the phrase 'got out of bed the wrong side' come from? Surely, as long as your bed isn't pressed up against a wall it doesn't matter which sodding side you get out of it from?
It's not worth the effort making sense of illogical sayings, I've yet to see someone's face resemble an arse let alone a smacked arse.
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