Toddlers -The ‘Terrible Twos’

[jodypress]

Animal said:

Our son will be 3 in March and he can be an absolute monster! He has terrific speech, which is great when he's in a good mood and not great when he's not... In the past 7 days he's had massive tantrums because:
- he wanted to go upstairs and wasn't allowed (we were driving in the car at the time)
- he wanted pizza for dinner and we gave him pizza
- he didn't want to go to sleep (was fast asleep 2 mins later)
- he wanted his green lorry but couldn't find it. Presumably because he was holding it.
- he wanted to watch Fireman Sam on the iPad but wouldn't accept it being broken
- we gave him a drink in the wrong coloured bottle and didn't have the correct red bottle immediately to hand

There is both rhyme and reason to his outbursts, but the rhyme is one entirely made up by him and the reason changes without notice, and frequently! As a teenager I used to mock my father for his frequent use of 'Hmmm' or 'Mmmm' during conversation. Now I completely get it.

So glad to hear I'm not the only one with a "Threenager" (love that word). Where they get the power in those lungs of theirs is beyond me (mini Pavarotti's)

[Emeye]

Some people don't like to believe the conditions exist, but it could be autism or ADHD and it is hard to diagnose until they are older. Getting help can be painful - it is a bit of a lottery based on the teachers' and school's experience and attitude, and the local council's are, as in most departments, understaffed and underfunded. It doesn't help that some children mask it at school when they are a nightmare at home - if you child kicks off at nursery/school then it is easier - there is still a real lack of knowledge, but we have noticed things getting better.

We have 4 kids, two who have mild autism issues. What we have found is that routine really helps them, but during Covid lockdown it can be very hard to stick to routine - our kids are happier when they are in school.

Our eldest son has started college and has developed coping mechanisms and I am very proud of him - we had been through some very challenging times with him. My 6 year old daughter has similar issues and we have only just started to work with the school.

There are some great facebook groups and forums with children and parents going through similar experiences.

[antspants]

Hoink said:

Buffalo said:

bristolbaron said:

Wait til he’s a threenager!

This. My boy turned into a tyrant at age 3 and 2 weeks....

Yep. This. Two was a breeze compared to three.

Sorry to add to this OP but my son was also far worse when he was 3. He's 14 now and the challenges are still there, they're just different ones but I've got better at being a dad as he's got older.
Lots of good advice already given, but completely agree about not letting the rain curtail your outdoor activities, if they're dressed for the weather kids don't care about getting wet and muddy.
Also agree about hunger, my son was a pain in the arse if hungry. Few mouthfuls of food and it was like somebody had taken the demon child and returned my normal son while I wasn't looking.

[Davey S2]

Peter911 said:

I would be looking at changing the nursery.

Why? They have been fantastic and he loved it there.

[Buffalo]

Davey S2 said:

His speech has been slow. You could hold a good conversation with my daughter at the same age.

He is improving though and his nursery have been great in helping and he's come on quite a bit in the last few weeks. After this lockdown rubbish is over we will be taking him to a speech therapist to see if there are any obvious things to fix and work on.

He can be really gentle and caring at times then the next minute just turns into a hooligan.

Just my experience about speech. I always felt I had a problem with mine and it has knocked my confidence in a minor way through my teens and early adult life (pronunciation mostly, never had a stutter or anything). When my son was born he had a real problem with breastfeeding. The hospital didn't really make any distinction on the matter, but we decided to see a tongue-tie specialist who deemed him tongue-tied with a raised palette that could make pronunciation more difficult later in life. Their recommendation was to have it snipped. It sorted out the breastfeeding amazingly (in fact instantaneously, I've never been so amazed than how he was immediately able to feed straight away) but as an aside (and the point of my post) I mentioned my feelings about my own speech and the specialist checked me out at the same time. Her words were "oh yep, it's dad's fault, he's tongue-tied and has a raised palette". I haven't had an op, but it helped me mentally that I wasn't making it up. I'm glad I took action for my son and held out to have him properly checked. His speech is amazing now at 3 as well.

I would highly recommend looking into tongue-tie for anyone who thinks speech development may be lacking in their child and/or the cause of poor behaviour. The NHS didn't seem particularly 'on it' but the specialist was awesome. It really does seem a very simple thing that is key in several developmental stages.

Also, if anyone is beds/northants based and wants the specialists name you're welcome to PM.

[Mark Benson]

I think it's far more difficult to deal with when you've had a good kid first, you think you're raising them the same but remember your daughter didn't have to fight for your attention, she was at the start an only child.

At the age he is, he wants your attention and can't understand the difference between good and bad attention so as long as you turn away from her and towards him - win!
That can translate to nursery too; I mean, it works at home, right?

There are a few things you could try, one (and I realise this is hard during lockdown) is to take him out to do his own things, stuff he's good at and that he'll behave while doing - then give him lots of praise, over praise him, make sure he knows this is the stuff that gets results.
When he's with the family and acting up, hard as it might be don't give him the attention unless he's in danger or likely to hurt someone.

Praise the good, ignore (as far as possible) the bad but make sure he has a lot of opportunity to be well behaved.

Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 27th October 16:28

[crofty1984]

Ours sts wherever she feels like, jumps off/onto anything, tries to steal your dinner, eats loo roll like it's going out of fashion and doesn't play properly in the garden with her siblings. Plus her preening makes a mess I have to clean up and she once pecked my wife in the eye.

God knows how you lot cope with human children, it's hard enough with a chicken!

[sparkyhx]

potentially classic signs of autism and ADHD.............but could be other things

Keep an eye on it

[sparkyhx]

Emeye said:

Some people don't like to believe the conditions exist, but it could be autism or ADHD and it is hard to diagnose until they are older. Getting help can be painful - it is a bit of a lottery based on the teachers' and school's experience and attitude, and the local council's are, as in most departments, understaffed and underfunded. It doesn't help that some children mask it at school when they are a nightmare at home - if you child kicks off at nursery/school then it is easier - there is still a real lack of knowledge, but we have noticed things getting better.

We have 4 kids, two who have mild autism issues. What we have found is that routine really helps them, but during Covid lockdown it can be very hard to stick to routine - our kids are happier when they are in school.

Our eldest son has started college and has developed coping mechanisms and I am very proud of him - we had been through some very challenging times with him. My 6 year old daughter has similar issues and we have only just started to work with the school.

There are some great facebook groups and forums with children and parents going through similar experiences.

Also a thread on here
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[survivalist]

Davey S2 said:

Anyone else have / had a nightmare toddler?

Mine is two and a half and he’s a nightmare. Just doesn’t give a st about anything, does almost nothing he’s told, constantly jumping on and off everything in sight (including me).

He’s still not speaking much, only the odd words so gets a bit frustrated. We have incident forms almost every day from his nursery for throwing things at other kids or biting.

His older sister was and is an absolute angel and never been any trouble at all but my son is a nightmare.

We’re in lockdown in Wales for the next 3 weekends and it’s chucked it down all weekend so we’ve been stuck in the house all day which has been a nightmare.

I’m hoping that this is just the terrible and two’s he’ll quieten down a bit, or at least listen a bit more, as he gets a bit older and can talk.

Please tell me it gets easier or if not make me feel better by telling how much of a nightmare your kids were at this age!

You mention lockdown. Was it the same during the first lockdown, did his behaviour worsen?

Reason for mentioning it as that both my boy’s behaviour changed noticeably during lockdown, especially the first few weeks when their parents were the only people they could interact with face to face.

Kids seem to love a routine and changes can have a big impact on them.

Mine are both very social and after a couple of weeks of no school & nursery tended to get pretty emotional in the afternoons. The older one (5) became more tearful whereas the younger one (2) became more feral.

Luckily both institutions opened up as soon as they could and they happily dropped back into their old routines.

If you child was used to social interaction I wouldn’t underestimate the impact that the last 6 months and the current Welsh restrictions could be having on him.

[marksx]

We're at the threenager stage now with no2. He's 3 and a bit.

I'm struggling, to be frank. I lose my cool too easily he winds me up that much.

Pretty much as the description above, he does what he wants, climbs, doesn't listen, answers back, argues, etc etc. He's a smart kid, so I'm sure he's doing it intentionally. He's never slept which doesn't help.

I'm probably guilty of comparing against no1 who is nearly 7. She was/is an absolute star. Slept straight through very early, extremely intelligent, articulate, well behaved (most of the time).

[Mr Whippy]

antspants said:

Hoink said:

Buffalo said:

bristolbaron said:

Wait til he’s a threenager!

This. My boy turned into a tyrant at age 3 and 2 weeks....

Yep. This. Two was a breeze compared to three.

Sorry to add to this OP but my son was also far worse when he was 3. He's 14 now and the challenges are still there, they're just different ones but I've got better at being a dad as he's got older.
Lots of good advice already given, but completely agree about not letting the rain curtail your outdoor activities, if they're dressed for the weather kids don't care about getting wet and muddy.
Also agree about hunger, my son was a pain in the arse if hungry. Few mouthfuls of food and it was like somebody had taken the demon child and returned my normal son while I wasn't looking.

They’re hard work all along, just swap one thing you just got used to for another you have to figure out.

Ie:
Great they’re using the potty!
Nooo, they’re now trying to take a slash stood up and missing the potty and hitting the carpet.

[antspants]

Mr Whippy said:

They’re hard work all along, just swap one thing you just got used to for another you have to figure out.

Oh completely agree! Tonights 'discussion' was a new one, went along the lines of "dad can you buy me some fireworks for halloween?" I obviously queried where he was planning to use them, "oh I don't know, the park, a field, wherever really" Strange that he seemed surprised when I said no as he's known me for 14 years. Had he asked his mum, "yeah she's already said no"

[FunkyCEO]

Magnum 475 said:

At pre-school he's described as a perfectly behaved little angel, and home he throws at least 4 tantrums every day.

Edited by Magnum 475 on Monday 26th October 15:19

My old mum always said 'if they cannot be naughty at home, where would i like them to be naughty'?

I've a 5yr, 3yr and 1yr - some days are carnage!

[Davey S2]

marksx said:

We're at the threenager stage now with no2. He's 3 and a bit.

I'm struggling, to be frank. I lose my cool too easily he winds me up that much.

Pretty much as the description above, he does what he wants, climbs, doesn't listen, answers back, argues, etc etc. He's a smart kid, so I'm sure he's doing it intentionally. He's never slept which doesn't help.

I'm probably guilty of comparing against no1 who is nearly 7. She was/is an absolute star. Slept straight through very early, extremely intelligent, articulate, well behaved (most of the time).

Exactly the same as me Mark

[Davey S2]

survivalist said:

You mention lockdown. Was it the same during the first lockdown, did his behaviour worsen?

Reason for mentioning it as that both my boy’s behaviour changed noticeably during lockdown, especially the first few weeks when their parents were the only people they could interact with face to face.

Kids seem to love a routine and changes can have a big impact on them.

Mine are both very social and after a couple of weeks of no school & nursery tended to get pretty emotional in the afternoons. The older one (5) became more tearful whereas the younger one (2) became more feral.

Luckily both institutions opened up as soon as they could and they happily dropped back into their old routines.

If you child was used to social interaction I wouldn’t underestimate the impact that the last 6 months and the current Welsh restrictions could be having on him.

Lockdown certainly hasn't helped but then I think its had a negative effect on everyone regardless of age. It certainly hasn't helped with being able to go out and do things.

He's much better when he's been in nursery and fortunately they haven't closed like they did back in March.

[antspants]

Davey S2 said:

marksx said:

We're at the threenager stage now with no2. He's 3 and a bit.

I'm struggling, to be frank. I lose my cool too easily he winds me up that much.

Pretty much as the description above, he does what he wants, climbs, doesn't listen, answers back, argues, etc etc. He's a smart kid, so I'm sure he's doing it intentionally. He's never slept which doesn't help.

I'm probably guilty of comparing against no1 who is nearly 7. She was/is an absolute star. Slept straight through very early, extremely intelligent, articulate, well behaved (most of the time).

Exactly the same as me Mark

Although my lad is 14 now I can relate to this as I have patience that is paper thin at the best of times. I can remember my mum telling me to pick my battles and she was right (about a lot of things I've come to realise since becoming a parent). She suggested I not react to every misdemeanour because mostly they were carried out for attention, even if it was negative attention it was still focused attention. I only have the one child so I imagine this is even more important to child 2 than just my one.

I've become accustomed over the years to mouthing silently "fk off you little fker" as he walks away or I turn my back from an argument, I find it's quite satisfying and dilutes my anger and frustration Walking away or ignoring can sometimes be more powerful than a reprimand.

Your kids know how to push your buttons better than anybody in life and they get SO much better at it as they get older

[Origin Unknown]

Every time this thread appears in My Stuff, I misread the title as "Toddlers -The Terrible tts"

[havoc]

andyxxx said:

My second daughter was problematic at two and is still terrible at 15!
Dearly loved all the same.

Please don't say that...our daughter (second child) is also...challenging...

[Harry Flashman]

Mark Benson said:

I think it's far more difficult to deal with when you've had a good kid first, you think you're raising them the same but remember your daughter didn't have to fight for your attention, she was at the start an only child.

At the age he is, he wants your attention and can't understand the difference between good and bad attention so as long as you turn away from her and towards him - win!

No2 arrives in December. No1 is a lovely little girl at just over 2 years old sleeps well, (although that is because I am a fascist sleep training person), doesn't really tantrum (the odd one is simply ignored and is over before it begins (unless it is a genuine issue, such as her falling over and hurting herself etc.), and is a sweet little thing - but definitely likes attention and is pretty clingy with her mother.

I am quite worried about what is going to happen when kid sister arrives...I think whilst lockdown was amazing in terms of spending time with her, I think it has made her clinginess more acute.

On the screen thing - we do not allow screens and don't play on our phones when around her. At about 18 months old, at the beginning of lockdown, I had her in the mornings and started (innocuously, I thought) building half an hour of TV into our mornings - nature programmes. It was an absolute disaster - she was hooked almost instantly, got upset when I turned the screen off, and it led to a week of tantrums when I stopped doing it. Nightmare.

The only thing that worked with those tantrums at that age were to simply ignore them. I would make sure that she was safe, and could not hurt herself, and then got on with doing something else (I'd cook, or take her into the garden and get on with some gardening and let her yell as much as she wanted). She stopped doing it when she realised there was no attention to be had - and we have followed the ignoring routine consistently since. She doesn't tantrum, but that "training" took some time. When she gets upset these days I either ignore, or very calmly speak to her, saying things like "i know you want to do x, but that is not something we are doing right now, and I am going to do y - would you like to join me?". And then I go off and do y, which is not what she wants to do. This seems to work. I'm pretty sure that it won't always.

Every kid is different. The one thing I have found is that she is sensitive - getting upset makes it worse. But she also already knows what works with Mum and Dad. Mum hates seeing her upset, so she cries. Dad doesn't hate seeing her upset - so instead of putting on the waterworks, if she knows she is being bad she instantly stops that behaviour when it doesn' work, and immediately starts trying to make me laugh to avoid the "discipline' of being ignored.

Again, terrifying.

They are the enemy. Never show fear. Like predators, they can sense it.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 3rd November 22:43