Is Scots a language or dialect?
Discussion
This came up in the angry Scots thread but thought it worth its own discussion. To be honest I had never heard that Scots was considered a language in its own right. I had always assumed it was a regional dialect of English - albeit one more difficult to understand than many.
Swiss German is usually seen as a dialect of German yet in my experience it is at least, it not more different, from standard German than Scots appears to be different to standard English.
I suppose if it were a separate language then that increases the number of languages I understand by one.
Swiss German is usually seen as a dialect of German yet in my experience it is at least, it not more different, from standard German than Scots appears to be different to standard English.
I suppose if it were a separate language then that increases the number of languages I understand by one.
I believe Scottish is a P-Gaelic Language with similar roots to Irish, (the Cornish, Welsh and Breton Languages being distinct Q-Gaelic, and they are apparently quite different), unsurprisingly it was more common on the West side of Scotland, I think there is also a Scottish Language on the East side that is a derivative of old English (I know there are going to be some protests about that...).
Although, I also understand that there are also some more southerly areas of Scotland where the language was more similar to Welsh, in fact I think there were some connections between clans of Sothern Scotland and the tribes of North Wales.
Although, I also understand that there are also some more southerly areas of Scotland where the language was more similar to Welsh, in fact I think there were some connections between clans of Sothern Scotland and the tribes of North Wales.
TorqueDirty said:
If I told you that your piece and ham was on the bunker would you know what I was talking about?
I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
On the bunker?I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
Glasgow born and bred and no idea what that means!
The UK has such a huge variance in accent, local dialect, slang words and phrases etc, for such a small island.
When my American relatives tell me the can do a Scottish or English accent they give a puzzled look when I say 'which one?'
yellowbentines said:
TorqueDirty said:
If I told you that your piece and ham was on the bunker would you know what I was talking about?
I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
On the bunker?I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
Glasgow born and bred and no idea what that means!
The UK has such a huge variance in accent, local dialect, slang words and phrases etc, for such a small island.
When my American relatives tell me the can do a Scottish or English accent they give a puzzled look when I say 'which one?'
GrizzlyBear said:
I believe Scottish is a P-Gaelic Language with similar roots to Irish, (the Cornish, Welsh and Breton Languages being distinct Q-Gaelic, and they are apparently quite different), unsurprisingly it was more common on the West side of Scotland, I think there is also a Scottish Language on the East side that is a derivative of old English (I know there are going to be some protests about that...).
Although, I also understand that there are also some more southerly areas of Scotland where the language was more similar to Welsh, in fact I think there were some connections between clans of Sothern Scotland and the tribes of North Wales.
Scots is not Scottish Gaelic (which was my preconception).Although, I also understand that there are also some more southerly areas of Scotland where the language was more similar to Welsh, in fact I think there were some connections between clans of Sothern Scotland and the tribes of North Wales.
This is an example of modern Scots:
Noo the nativitie o' Jesus Christ was this gate: whan his mither Mary was mairry't till Joseph, 'or they cam thegither, she was fund wi' bairn o' the Holie Spirit.
Than her guidman, Joseph, bein an upricht man, and no desirin her name sud be i' teh mooth o' the public, was ettlin to pit her awa' hidlins.
I find it slightly bizarre that people refer to Scots as if it's a single entity - there's quite a variation even within Aberdeenshire where it's referred to as Doric.
If you took some of my farming neighbours to Glasgow, no one would have a clue what they were saying despite it all being classed, by some, as Scots.
The term Scots seems to be being pushed more recently by nationalists intent on promoting the idea of a single Scottish identity. Something which doesn't really exist I don't think, most people here in Aberdeenshire really have very little in common with those in the central belt.
If you took some of my farming neighbours to Glasgow, no one would have a clue what they were saying despite it all being classed, by some, as Scots.
The term Scots seems to be being pushed more recently by nationalists intent on promoting the idea of a single Scottish identity. Something which doesn't really exist I don't think, most people here in Aberdeenshire really have very little in common with those in the central belt.
Edited by snowandrocks on Sunday 7th March 21:56
TorqueDirty said:
If I told you that your piece and ham was on the bunker would you know what I was talking about?
I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
I wouldn't worry about it, a lot of my family can't understand the Glaswegian side of the family, they just sit there and nod...I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
Most of my work is in Dundee. And their language is totally different to the rest of Scotland. Where a lot of Scots call a dog a dug, Dundonians call it a dooog. And don’t get started about pehs.
When I was younger I labourered for an old guy from Aberdeenshire for a few months and I honestly never had a clue what he was saying most off the time. The other labourer who had worked with him for a few years had to translate.
When I was younger I labourered for an old guy from Aberdeenshire for a few months and I honestly never had a clue what he was saying most off the time. The other labourer who had worked with him for a few years had to translate.
GroundEffect said:
Cold said:
Remember back before broadband and we had to use dial-up to connect to the internet? That noise you hear as your computer dialled out was based on the Scottish accent simply as a security measure.
The Scottish accent? Just like the English accent me old chap. vulture1 said:
Gaelic is a language but it's a load of outdated old nonsense that no one speaks. Kinda like Welsh. Dialects there are alot. Then theres lots of different ones just like scouse geordie etc.
Don't tell the Irish that. Gaelic is spoken by hundreds of thousands of the Irish and most of the population has a working knowledge of it.More people speak Irish in Ireland now than at any time for over 150 years.
The biggest problem north of the border is that "English" is called "English". Not a problem if you're from anywhere else in the world but there are a few on this side of the border who would rather gargle frogspawn than concede that they have anything in common with the English.
English is actually a language developed over the centuries from a wide variety of sources and with numerous regional variations. The language just happens to be referred to as English by most of the world and therefore " sticks in the craw" of many Scots.
English is actually a language developed over the centuries from a wide variety of sources and with numerous regional variations. The language just happens to be referred to as English by most of the world and therefore " sticks in the craw" of many Scots.
TorqueDirty said:
If I told you that your piece and ham was on the bunker would you know what I was talking about?
I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
1.Your sandwich is on the counter.I'm English married to a Glaswegian and I am still leaning the language.
Oh and don't forget to brush your wallies.
2.Remember to brush your false teeth.
I have read alot of Broons and Oors Wullies Annuals.
Scots as we speak now is just a dialect of english same as liverpudlian etc.
Old Scots as written by Rabbie burns etc is closer to gaelic but has not been spoken in a long time.
There are very few gaelic speakers left really and for virtually all who speak it it will be a second laguage like most welsh speakibg people can speak english when needed.
To quote Jonathan Meades:
"...Scots-Gaelic is a language spoken by 5000 people, all of whom work for BBC Alba..."
As I presume the OP is referring to the vernacular tongue used in the works of Irvine Walsh and poems of Rabbie Burns and the like then I think it is strictly a dialect and not a language, however it is a dialect with it's own signifiers and patois which makes it indecipherable to the outsider.
So employing the all cabbages are green therefore frogs are cabbages logic:
Can a non Scots speaker understand 2 Scots speakers? If no then it is a language.
As a proudly English speaker who still aspires to RP then I do enjoy the variation that these islands produce, and to me if Scots isn't a language what is?
"...Scots-Gaelic is a language spoken by 5000 people, all of whom work for BBC Alba..."
As I presume the OP is referring to the vernacular tongue used in the works of Irvine Walsh and poems of Rabbie Burns and the like then I think it is strictly a dialect and not a language, however it is a dialect with it's own signifiers and patois which makes it indecipherable to the outsider.
So employing the all cabbages are green therefore frogs are cabbages logic:
Can a non Scots speaker understand 2 Scots speakers? If no then it is a language.
As a proudly English speaker who still aspires to RP then I do enjoy the variation that these islands produce, and to me if Scots isn't a language what is?
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