Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?

[How u doing]

popeyewhite said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well, it's easy to find less calorie dense foods and less carbohydrate laden foods, so what isn't easy? Your resolve? Yes it can be tough - and painful - to deliberately restrict your diet, especially if you're a food lover. So we're back to willpower and wanting not to be fat. Can you go swimming?

You can't outrun a poor diet.

[ambuletz]

the fact that anyone can lose weight from calorie restriction shows its a lifestyle choice. so many people just have no clue about the calories they consumer or what they consume. Many people will almost switch off and forget that they're even eating something, or how much of it.

'oh its just 3 biscuits with my tea, thats nothing' (person proceeds to do this 3-4x a day)
'oh but its a smoothie, so its healthy'
'oh but its olive oil, so its healthy'
'oh but its just a coffee, how can a drink make you fat (person drinks coffee that's mostly milk/cream and 400+cals)


the vast majority are just absolutely clueless and its made worse by being given wrong information from uninformed sources

[kambites]

otolith said:

kambites said:

otolith said:

Look at the scatterplot.

https://www.bodystat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/0...

Yeah that looks about what I'd expect. Look how few black dots there are to the right of the 25BMI point which fall below the 25% body-fat line. I'd say judging by that graph that around 99% of people with a BMI above 25 have a body-fat percentage above 25.

The black dots are for women, the healthy fat % is much higher for them.

Oops, you are of course right. So probably, what, around 10% of people with a BMI over 25 have less than 20% body-fat. and maybe 25% have less than 25% body-fat. More than I'd have thought, but the great majority of people classed as overweight by the BMI scale are still carrying too much fat.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that BMI is perfect, but realistically it's the best easily available metric since actually measuring body-fat is very difficult to do.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 17th June 19:14

[Fast and Spurious]

eldar said:

So, in summary, the opposite approach to smoking cessation, much more carrot than stick.

As an ex smoker, the fat shaming type social pressure was a very effective incentive to stop.

I suspect the answer is to make obesity less socially acceptable, much like other socially harmful habits. The trick is how to do that quickly, effectively and with respect.

Play "lip up fatty" every morning at school before lunch.

[popeyewhite]

ambuletz said:

....the vast majority are just absolutely clueless and its made worse by being given wrong information from uninformed sources

My bugbear is those who trot out "...my cousin eats what he likes, does no exercise and still stays stick thin". No he effin doesn't. Without his clothes he's got a pot belly complete with even more dangerous brown fat around his internal organs, or he exercises a lot more than you think, or the food he eats isn't that much in quantity/is lower in calories than you imagine. Unless you monitor his calorie intake, metabolism and do a body fat test you've no idea what your cousin's fat mass is and the cause.

[PeteinSQ]

Ironically I'm watching a Netflix thing called Fresh, Fried & Crispy which sees a very large american guy eat his way through some very tasty looking food that looks like it contains almost zero nutrients. Deep fried oreo cookies for example.

People see this sort of behaviour as almost normal but really it's all pretty irresponsible.

[Mr Whippy]

Sugar or refined carbs get stored as fat.

So if you have this ‘gene’ just avoid (ie, only as a once or twice a week treat) refined carbs and sugar for a start.


Fat fat fattiesss. They should just eat dust like any good fat fighter

[Otispunkmeyer]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Agreed. Hence my paragraph after the one you quoted!

My dads just had his knee done because he could barely walk anywhere. Was cycling one day and it just froze, he fell off his bike and that was that. He had of course ignored years of pain build up by continuing to cycle and go do squats/leg press at the gym. But hey ho.

He can walk pretty well now. But I was amazed to find out that you basically cannot kneel down ever again on the replacement. His friend did it without thinking once, heard a crunch, then was in agony for a few days. I don’t know if he had to go back to hospital and sort it out.

I have a friend who damaged their ankle playing football. They’ve tried many times to sort it out and now finally have just fused it. But it’s amazing just how much it stops you. Even from doing something like swimming…ankle flexion is pretty key! So they ended up putting on quite a lot of weight, which obviously makes matters worse on the ankles. Through all the time they spent trying to fix it, they’ve basically worn the end of one leg down so one leg is shorter than the other, and trying to shift weight onto the other ankle hasn’t helped that one either. All because of a few smushed little bones.

So I can appreciate your point!

[Greg_D]

'positive body image' has a lot to answer for.

There are far too many people celebrating and normalising obesity by talking about (for example) "real women" as being size 16/18.
This conceit is then reinforced by certain retailers who are ultimately only interested in selling clothes advertising clearly obese women frolicking around the screen looking all joyous.

i wholly accept that the reasons for obesity are multi-faceted and complex, but to positively reinforce a wholly unhealthy situation is irresponsible.

overweight people need support in their journey out of obesity, not a nice comfortable social cushion to sit on.

It's not ok to be fat!

[Four Litre]

30 years ago when I was at school, there was around 2-3 'fat' kids in the school and they very much stood out. Back then they were the point of endless ridicule (As was sadly anyone that stood out for the wrong reasons back then).

Now when I go to my kids schools a lot of the kids are overweight, this is from a very early age. It certainly seems to run in families, however I don't think its really genetic, more habit that is passed on from the parents. Processed fast food, kids stuck staring at screens all day and night, no exercise and more money to waste on sweets and crisps etc. Its a recipe that is never going to end well.

I'm not by any means into shaming people and making people feel bad, however being honest with yourself is a start. I've always gone to the gym, and thought I was fit as I did weights so I could eat what I wanted, I wasn't. A friend that I hadn't seen in a while said "Why have you turned into a fat *unt!" At the time I thought WTF!! But I had a hard look at myself and my diet, and lost 2 stone by cutting out desserts, processed sugar and a lot of crap. I realised that over time I had become accustomed to having 3 courses when going out for dinner (way too much), portion sizes way over what is required and eating sugar without even realising it and made a point of doing half cardio and half weights.

The latest craze of telling fat women they are curvy and sexy is also not helping, fat needs to be called fat and not disguised as a marketing ploy to sell more clothes, you hear plenty of 'dad bod' comments, but I don't recall seeing a 'mum bod' comment. I also think this is making people think "its not my fault" and not taking responsibility and being honest with themselves.

[Thankyou4calling]

This topic bores me now.

It’s Groundhog Day without Ned Ryerson.

It’s not an illness, it’s not a disease.

It’s scoffing too much

[Kyp]

And car manufacturers continue to build bigger and bigger cars to accomodate the hippocrocopigs who then complain about the size of parking bays! I give up.

[Mr Pointy]

As I suspected it would this has just turned into another fat shaming thread (hippocrocopigs?).

I was right in saying we didn't need another one - it can just be merged with the others because there's nothing new in this one.

[Last Visit]

Greg_D said:

'positive body image' has a lot to answer for.

There are far too many people celebrating and normalising obesity by talking about (for example) "real women" as being size 16/18.
This conceit is then reinforced by certain retailers who are ultimately only interested in selling clothes advertising clearly obese women frolicking around the screen looking all joyous.

i wholly accept that the reasons for obesity are multi-faceted and complex, but to positively reinforce a wholly unhealthy situation is irresponsible.

overweight people need support in their journey out of obesity, not a nice comfortable social cushion to sit on.

It's not ok to be fat!

This.

[otolith]

I think fundamentally I tend towards minding my own fking business.

[404 Page not found]

It really annoys me that the government and society are really pushing people to get the 'rona jab...when what society really needs is to get off it's collective fat asses and get fit. Getting fit and not fat will make you generally better equipped to deal with a whole host of other nasty things aside from the Corona virus just queuing up to kill you off, or make you unwell.

Anybody who thinks being fat is anything other than eating more than you burn is either an idiot, or simply in denial.

There is NOTHING worse than a bloke who looks pregnant, or those Women in Asda who flop over the trolly for support as they slowly amble down the isles. Sort yourself out you fat lazy slobs, you look disgusting and you are (or will eventually) cost the NHS a fortune

[Magnum 475]

BBC article suggested that there were genetic issues that can cause this. One leading to a tendency to store fat, and one leading to an almost constant feeling of hunger.

I may have one of these, as I almost always feel hungry. Even after eating a three course meal, I want more.

But, I have this strange thing called, wait for it . . . . self control. I know when I've eaten enough calories and need to stop eating. Yes, it takes some effort. Yes, some days I eat more than I should - so the following day or days I'll force myself to do at 18-hour fast. I've made the 18-hour fast a regular feature, it now happens at least twice a week. It hasn't lessened the feeling of being hungry, but I have a BMI around 23, which ain't bad for 50 years old.

So, is obesity a disease? No. It's a lack of self-control / self-discipline, and using genetics as an excuse. Use of will power and common sense is all that's needed.

[popeyewhite]

Mr Pointy said:

As I suspected it would this has just turned into another fat shaming thread (hippocrocopigs?).

One rude post out of 4 or 5 pages does not represent a complete change in direction in what are basically unanimous replies - unless you're looking for an excuse not to accept them.

Mr Pointy said:

I was right in saying we didn't need another one - it can just be merged with the others because there's nothing new in this one.

Question asked - answers given. i'm afraid there's nothing new because the science can't be changed to suit you.

otolith said:

I think fundamentally I tend towards minding my own fking business.

Doesn't explain your post count.

[IJWS15]

You don't see many fat octogenarians so if folks want to be fat it is fine with me, but they won't be collecting their pensions for long. Are the powers that be trying to address the pension deficits?

Watched Trainspotting 2 last week and during one of the clips of old Edinburgh there is the comment "Look no - one is fat" so it isn't genetic.

[stargazer30]

Just remember inside every fat person, there's a skinny/fit person just trying to get out.

But you can shut the ****er up with Cake!