Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?
Discussion
PositronicRay said:
I'm 63 5`10 and 11.5 stone.
A doctor I hadn't seen before remarked , 'have you always been so slight'?
It's not particularly light. My Dad is probably a similar size in his early 70s.A doctor I hadn't seen before remarked , 'have you always been so slight'?
I suppose it could depend where you weight lies, though.
If you are very lightly muscled, with little fat anywhere other than a promenant round gut/waist area, then they may have a point.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
knk said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
popeyewhite said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think instead of arguing who I am or who I'm not I would prefer you actually.. etc etc
Not really bothered what you'd like, just curious as to your quals as you appear to have advised a client his GP was incorrect. Yet you yourself are not any kind of doctor.Perhaps it's just the way you worded it.
What I didn't say was that his GP wasn't giving him the information to make an informed decision about his health, and we know we should all have the relevant information to give INFORMED CONSENT when taking a drug.
We'll leave it there sorry for seeming argumentative. Statins in particular have been bad for my family historically and ruined the quality of life of someone who still died of a heart attack and were given very little advice on diet (other than to eat more while grains......!).
Cheers.
Edited by TyrannosauRoss Lex on Sunday 26th June 07:19
Anyway, I'm off for a 13 mile run to burn off some of my terribly fatty breakfast of avocado and salmon
So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
jayymannon said:
I wouldn't have even considered talking to a GP about such things as I assumed it wasn't an area in which they had much knowledge.
Almost all my health issues over the last 20 years have been diet related I think… and the GP has never addressed my diet in any meaningful way.My single biggest change was after a York Test… milk. Knocking though out of my diet was like a cascade of improvements.
Anyone going to doctors with chronic issues like heartburn or whatever should just get tested for all these things.
Diagnostics to prevention, rather than nonsensical advice like eat more small meals.
Oh, milk settles your stomach, have a small glass of milk. Yeah… great advice haha.
knk said:
So you are not a Registered Medical Practitioner (be aware, that is the legally protected term and what most people mean when they thinking of a "Medical Doctor").
So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
My guess is he's a physio with a Diploma. While it's not unknown for GPs to make mistakes I don't think it shows professional integrity or is particularly responsible to give advice to a client contradicting what their GP has told them... for a number of reasons.So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
popeyewhite said:
knk said:
So you are not a Registered Medical Practitioner (be aware, that is the legally protected term and what most people mean when they thinking of a "Medical Doctor").
So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
My guess is he's a physio with a Diploma. While it's not unknown for GPs to make mistakes I don't think it shows professional integrity or is particularly responsible to give advice to a client contradicting what their GP has told them... for a number of reasons.So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
Please accept my apologies if I came across as totally anti-medicine and GPs, I am not. Everyone practices a little differently, many are good, some are not. Same with anything in life.
popeyewhite said:
knk said:
So you are not a Registered Medical Practitioner (be aware, that is the legally protected term and what most people mean when they thinking of a "Medical Doctor").
So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
My guess is he's a physio with a Diploma. While it's not unknown for GPs to make mistakes I don't think it shows professional integrity or is particularly responsible to give advice to a client contradicting what their GP has told them... for a number of reasons.So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
Most Physios are proud of being a physio and work well in multidisciplinary teams.
Chiropodist I think. Maybe done some nutrition/ lifestyle medicine courses.
popeyewhite said:
knk said:
So you are not a Registered Medical Practitioner (be aware, that is the legally protected term and what most people mean when they thinking of a "Medical Doctor").
So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
My guess is he's a physio with a Diploma. While it's not unknown for GPs to make mistakes I don't think it shows professional integrity or is particularly responsible to give advice to a client contradicting what their GP has told them... for a number of reasons.So, of the HCPs that are registered, I am sure you would have told us if you were a dietician. I would place money on you being a chiropodist or a podiatrist.
You are very disparaging of doctors.
Making you believe their advice is infallible.
Great until you end up terminally Ill or beyond satisfactory help because of their poor advice.
Multiple doctors have told me to wear sunscreen for vitiligo but when I ask how that’ll impact vitamin D they say I can eat it in my diet.
Or just slap on steroids.
No seeming desire to understand the underlying cause. Just buy ‘medicine’
They’re out of their depth with mild chronic issues until they’re serious problems, at which point it’s too late.
If this is the future of UK/western medicine, letting people slip from mild chronic illness into real medical issues over years, then it’s time to start at least listening to advice from other sources.
dirky dirk said:
Nobody wants to move anymore
Everything gets Delivered
It’s a lifestyle choice and possibly
Surroundings and mindset thing
I read this hoping it was going to rhyme.Everything gets Delivered
It’s a lifestyle choice and possibly
Surroundings and mindset thing
I am disappoint.
So I’ve re written it.
Nobody ain’t movin
It’s all deliveroovin
It’s a lifestyle dem choosin
And a mindset we’re loosin
Thankyou4calling said:
I read this hoping it was going to rhyme.
I am disappoint.
So I’ve re written it.
Nobody ain’t movin
It’s all deliveroovin
It’s a lifestyle dem choosin
And a mindset we’re loosin
Just lazy fat s who need to move more and eat less. Simple. If you are fat/ alcoholic/ druggie I’d refuse you at the nhs door I am disappoint.
So I’ve re written it.
Nobody ain’t movin
It’s all deliveroovin
It’s a lifestyle dem choosin
And a mindset we’re loosin
Thankyou4calling said:
dirky dirk said:
Nobody wants to move anymore
Everything gets Delivered
It’s a lifestyle choice and possibly
Surroundings and mindset thing
I read this hoping it was going to rhyme.Everything gets Delivered
It’s a lifestyle choice and possibly
Surroundings and mindset thing
I am disappoint.
So I’ve re written it.
Nobody ain’t movin
It’s all deliveroovin
It’s a lifestyle dem choosin
And a mindset we’re loosin
Yours is definitely better though
Neuroscientists identified a specific aspect of the notion of freedom (the conscious control of the start of the action) and researched it: the experimental results seemed to indicate that there is no such conscious control, hence the conclusion that free will does not exist.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC48874...
Given that free will is an illusion, I’d argue that obesity is neither a choice nor an illness. It’s a result of cheap, nutritionally bankrupt food which high in fat, salt and refined carbohydrates, along with the neurosis of the modern human.
If you are fat, it’s bad luck. Similarly, if you are a physical specimen, it’s good luck. Choice has very little to do with it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC48874...
Given that free will is an illusion, I’d argue that obesity is neither a choice nor an illness. It’s a result of cheap, nutritionally bankrupt food which high in fat, salt and refined carbohydrates, along with the neurosis of the modern human.
If you are fat, it’s bad luck. Similarly, if you are a physical specimen, it’s good luck. Choice has very little to do with it.
BorkBorkBork said:
Given that free will is an illusion,.
It's not. The paper is based on the fact the author thinks free will can be quantitively measured through incredibly unreliable psychometric tests that attempt to evaluate three qualitative philosophical concepts associated with free will: choice, reasoning and veto (I think). It's all a bit of a mess, unsurprisingly. I didn't read the whole lot, the conclusion was enough. You could come back when you have a globally agreed definition of 'free will'?popeyewhite said:
BorkBorkBork said:
Given that free will is an illusion,.
It's not. The paper is based on the fact the author thinks free will can be quantitively measured through incredibly unreliable psychometric tests that attempt to evaluate three qualitative philosophical concepts associated with free will: choice, reasoning and veto (I think). It's all a bit of a mess, unsurprisingly. I didn't read the whole lot, the conclusion was enough. You could come back when you have a globally agreed definition of 'free will'?Humans aren’t born, or exist, in a vacuum. We’re all a result of decisions and events that came before us, going all the way back to the Big Bang.
Our intuition around agency is a quirk of human psychology. No doubt an evolutionary feature to help us deal with the absurd nature of existence.
keo said:
Just lazy fat s who need to move more and eat less. Simple. If you are fat/ alcoholic/ druggie I’d refuse you at the nhs door
Absolutely but what about all the runners damaging their knees running? Walking gives the same exercise value without the strain on the knees. So let’s refuse runners access to the nhs.
BorkBorkBork said:
Neuroscientists identified a specific aspect of the notion of freedom (the conscious control of the start of the action) and researched it: the experimental results seemed to indicate that there is no such conscious control, hence the conclusion that free will does not exist.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC48874...
Given that free will is an illusion, I’d argue that obesity is neither a choice nor an illness. It’s a result of cheap, nutritionally bankrupt food which high in fat, salt and refined carbohydrates, along with the neurosis of the modern human.
If you are fat, it’s bad luck. Similarly, if you are a physical specimen, it’s good luck. Choice has very little to do with it.
So, what you're saying, that obese people are absolutely forced to walk down the sweets isle at the supermarket and HAVE to buy stuff? How does that work when an obese person has the free will to decide they want to lose weight, and then do so? Do they develop free will at that point? Ridiculous, of course they have a choice whether to buy bad food or not, nobody's holding a gun to their head.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC48874...
Given that free will is an illusion, I’d argue that obesity is neither a choice nor an illness. It’s a result of cheap, nutritionally bankrupt food which high in fat, salt and refined carbohydrates, along with the neurosis of the modern human.
If you are fat, it’s bad luck. Similarly, if you are a physical specimen, it’s good luck. Choice has very little to do with it.
lrdisco said:
Absolutely but what about all the runners damaging their knees running? Walking gives the same exercise value without the strain on the knees.
So let’s refuse runners access to the nhs.
Running has many positives to health though (it also actually strengthens knees)So let’s refuse runners access to the nhs.
What positives does being fat bring?
keo said:
Running has many positives to health though (it also actually strengthens knees)
What positives does being fat bring?
Fat people drive the profits for the producers of junk food, slimming products, gyms, personal trainers, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies. What positives does being fat bring?
They are a little economic powerhouse.
lrdisco said:
keo said:
Just lazy fat s who need to move more and eat less. Simple. If you are fat/ alcoholic/ druggie I’d refuse you at the nhs door
[Absolutely but what about all the runners damaging their knees running? Walking gives the same exercise value without the strain on the knees. So let’s refuse runners access to the nhs.
Walking doesn't give the same exercise value as running, and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant. HTH.
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