Racism Hypocrisy

Author
Discussion

sinbaddio

2,357 posts

175 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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cobra kid said:
Sixsixtysix said:
NSFW (but a funny scene in a brilliant film)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1WzR0eke_8
I watched that scene just this morning actually!
I watched the whole film, again last night!

Anyhow, I'm mixed Indian and English heritage and have been called everything over the years with & without malice.

However, the worst ever for me was my first born son (Sam) whose grandfather insisted on calling him Sambo (my FIL). He said there was no harm or malice in it and it was an often used term when 'he was a lad'.

Mr Magooagain

9,909 posts

169 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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I've mentioned it before in past that I was called Irish at school. 'Oi Irish' you playing football or not?
Not so much called paddy though.

If I'm in Ireland or with Irish pals anywhere in the world we often call each other paddy,depending on what it's about.

'Look at that digger on the side of the road'
Don't worry Magoo,Paddy will have his eye on that now!

All very silly really.

StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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Glassman said:
My (late) father was from India. He was racist towards his own people but on closer analysis, I think he was intolerant of certain cultures in India which are governed by caste, religion and social standing. If he called a brown person an xyz - in other words, something a white person wouldn't get away with - would he be deemed a racist?
I've been to India a few times and in my experience, is one of the most racist nations on earth related to the very things you refer to.

Your question is not a straightforward one to answer. Through the eyes of the White/West, you'd have to say yes. But from the perspective of Indian eyes, probably not.


hammo19

4,898 posts

195 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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We all know that certain words are likely to cause offence to some people. So it's quite simple don't use them.

Resolutionary

1,253 posts

170 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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As a 15 year old I was beaten by up by two adults who turned left illegally while I was crossing the road with some mates after school. I shouted at them, they looped back and found us walking down the road. They got out of the car, shouted a load of P-word stuff, and proceeded to break my nose and jaw. One of my (Caucasian) mates copped a couple of black eyes for trying to intervene.

I've always experienced racism of some form even as recently as Christmas Eve last year. The memory above was the one that really solidified for me that, even if I was to 'own' the words levelled at me by championing them myself (which I haven't, and won't), there'd always be people who spout them for their most vicious intention.

As an aside, the N-word is now quite colloquially and liberally used by admittedly younger black, Hispanic, and indeed 'white' folks across America. Your average Worldstar video will demonstrate this, not that I encourage anyone to watch such trash.

There are also entire movements within hip-hop in which artists aim to empower themselves and others by actively avoiding using any terms deemed 'slaver language'. Some even call out others.

As with most things, nuance, context and historical / regional understanding is very important.

Have a listen and watch of The Story of O.J. by Jay-Z, if you wish. It's pretty interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM7lw0Ovzq0&ab...




Edited to add; I'm not Pakistani, even or Indian, so many of my past experiences are doubly weird.

Edited by Resolutionary on Thursday 23 March 15:41

Bob_Defly

3,642 posts

230 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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Glassman said:
My (late) father was from India. He was racist towards his own people but on closer analysis, I think he was intolerant of certain cultures... If he called a brown person an xyz - in other words, something a white person wouldn't get away with - would he be deemed a racist?
If it's because of their race, yes

Glassman said:
A few year back on holiday in Cuba, I got talking to a chap from Canada.At the bar we were having a bit of a laugh and he seemed to think I was cockney, and I picked up on his almost unique accent and detected a slight Glaswegian twang to it on certain words. I told him my grandad was a sweaty and he took exception to the term... This guy got put right off and found it difficult to recover.
So you met a friendly guy at a bar and insulted him, and wondered why he found you offensive..?

Also, many Scottish and Irish people had to put up with stereotypical nicknames at work, they had no choice, racism was rampant and HR wasn't even a thing.

StevieBee said:
N can be traced back to the early 1600s when Africans were considered beasts of burden alongside Cows, Horses, Donkeys, etc; a commodity to be traded, used and discarded when they're done. N was used by slave traders and slave owners as a collective noun in the same way one might use the term Cattle for Cows. Black people began to claim 'N' as their own word, owning their own agenda and over time, became common parlance amongst black communities around the world. The key word here is community; black people have taken control of a word used to describe them previously in a context that is abhorrent through the lens of today. In simple terms, Black People have earned the right to use the word. White people long lost the right to use it (and never had the right in the first place).
Great post StevieBee. Glassman, why is the above so difficult for you to understand? Nuance and context are everything. You (a non-black person) can't use the n word unless you're a racist, (or teaching historical context). What are you going to choose to be?

Raccaccoonie

2,797 posts

18 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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I hate the word racist etc, because it is based on the lie and unproven theory that there are different human races.

We are all genetically very similar, the genes for skin colour are a very small difference not even close to a distinguishing a different race.

This old pseudo science still exists today, I guess people don't want to believe they are no different genetically from an African person or Asian if they are European. Cultures, yes we are all different, maybe a culturist would be more apt.

andyeds1234

2,277 posts

169 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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If an alien landed on earth, and asked me to explain Pistonheads NP+E or Lounge forum, I would just ask them to read this thread.
I’m not sure how some people manage to dress themselves in the morning, given they find the need to ask questions like this.

Edited by andyeds1234 on Thursday 23 March 17:45

vulture1

12,126 posts

178 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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Might have been answered before but N word used by a black person to a black person means brother or fellow struggler. From a white person it's derogatory. That's how I seen it described once.

Al Gorithum

3,663 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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I grew up during the 70's in London, and am embarassed by the language that was normal back then. Black and brown people were fairly new to my world but that's no excuse.

I do feel that language is nuanced. Specific words can be offensive or not, depending on the context and intentions of the speaker, but we should be more mindful IMO.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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Raccaccoonie said:
I hate the word racist etc, because it is based on the lie and unproven theory that there are different human races.
I always thought there were different races, Caucasian, Negroid, etc. Of course genetically there's hardly any difference, but there's hardly any difference between humans and chimps. I think we share well over half our DNA with bananas. After all, all life on Earth is from a shared ancestor if you go back far enough. Of course, we're closer relatives of the chimp than we are of the banana, but we are still related to the banana.

Dingu

3,684 posts

29 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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OP can’t be genuinely this tone deaf. Must be a slow week for windscreens.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
I always thought there were different races, Caucasian, Negroid, etc. Of course genetically there's hardly any difference, but there's hardly any difference between humans and chimps. I think we share well over half our DNA with bananas. After all, all life on Earth is from a shared ancestor if you go back far enough. Of course, we're closer relatives of the chimp than we are of the banana, but we are still related to the banana.
There is no objective merit to the classifications. They're basically meaningless and arbitrary categories.

Glassman

Original Poster:

22,501 posts

214 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
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TimmyMallett said:
Wrong tint.

QJumper

2,709 posts

25 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I always thought there were different races, Caucasian, Negroid, etc. Of course genetically there's hardly any difference, but there's hardly any difference between humans and chimps. I think we share well over half our DNA with bananas. After all, all life on Earth is from a shared ancestor if you go back far enough. Of course, we're closer relatives of the chimp than we are of the banana, but we are still related to the banana.
Oh dear, I've just been a cannibal.

Raccaccoonie

2,797 posts

18 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I always thought there were different races, Caucasian, Negroid, etc. Of course genetically there's hardly any difference, but there's hardly any difference between humans and chimps. I think we share well over half our DNA with bananas. After all, all life on Earth is from a shared ancestor if you go back far enough. Of course, we're closer relatives of the chimp than we are of the banana, but we are still related to the banana.
this is why genetics is complex and misunderstood.

There are about 25k genes in the human genome, 10 of those genes decide skin colour.

Those genes will be made up of ones that are across all humans. Pretty straight forward stuff, but we as humans tend to focus on what we see over the actual details. The different tribes i guess is a legacy from evolution, the fear of others was probably a trait inbred. As hunter gatherers you would be fearful of others, the reason the humanity is a war culture.

The pale skin genetic dominance is very recent, maybe 4k years ago. Humans been around 500k years.

African as a continent has the widest variations in skin colours, even red heads. Again humans tend to simplify things to make thinking easier.



Look how recent humans have taken over all other hominoids, taking on their traits, adding the mixing of genetics we all now have.

Edited by Raccaccoonie on Thursday 23 March 19:53

QJumper

2,709 posts

25 months

Friday 24th March 2023
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Raccaccoonie said:
There are about 25k genes in the human genome, 10 of those genes decide skin colour.
So how does it work with other differences, as clearly there are physical differences between black, white and asian people that go beyond skin colour?

Are they due to evolutionary changes within homo sapiens, or cross breeding between different hominid types?

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 24th March 2023
quotequote all
QJumper said:
Raccaccoonie said:
There are about 25k genes in the human genome, 10 of those genes decide skin colour.
So how does it work with other differences, as clearly there are physical differences between black, white and asian people that go beyond skin colour?

Are they due to evolutionary changes within homo sapiens, or cross breeding between different hominid types?
The point is that the groupings are meaningless. The human population of Africa is the most genetically diverse on the planet, but you're going to lump them all into one bucket?


DodgyGeezer

40,152 posts

189 months

Friday 24th March 2023
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QJumper said:
So how does it work with other differences, as clearly there are physical differences between black, white and asian people that go beyond skin colour?
interesting question...

Asian people tend to be shorter
When was the last time the 100m world record was held by a white person (IIRC it was Armin Harry in 1960) or an Asian (IIRC, never!)?

this would tend to say that there are differences...

Raccaccoonie

2,797 posts

18 months

Friday 24th March 2023
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QJumper said:


Are they due to evolutionary changes within homo sapiens, or cross breeding between different hominid types?
We are all a mixture of hominoids, there will be variance, but the thing is trying to use colour as an identifier is meaningless.

The example being you will be (most likely) more genetically similar to an Asian person than your next door neighbour. We are all diverse.**

The problem is people see an Asian person and then let human bias take over (the two mind theory). The fact skin colour has no traits associated with it, means it evolved independently and provides no significant advantage and no ability to say one skin colours such and such.

Race is a social construct, but the problem is it is ingrained in human thinking and changing engrained thinking is very difficult.

The simple fact is education over ignorance, but if you are ignorant and believe something, why would you want to educate yourself?

The truth is people don't want to debate talk about it, because it makes their thoughts easier if they see other colours as different.

  • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/
''“two Caucasians are more similar to each other genetically than a Caucasian and an Asian.” However, in a reanalysis of data from 377 microsatellite loci typed in 1056 individuals, Europeans proved to be more similar to Asians than to other Europeans 38% of the time (Bamshad et al. 2004; population definitions and data from Rosenberg et al. 2002).''



Edited by Raccaccoonie on Friday 24th March 21:39