Racism Hypocrisy
Discussion
Glassman said:
If the 'n' word is unacceptable, it should be unacceptable irrespective of who uses it. Fair?
Example: rap artists; black stand-up comedians. The word is accepted. Somehow I don't think context changes anything; if you are not black, be careful where and how you use the word.
Also, if a person from Pakistan calls someone from Pakistan a shortened version of Pakistani, is that racist in the same way that someone not from Pakistan saying it?
It’s only a problem not to use these terms if want to use these terms. Do you?Example: rap artists; black stand-up comedians. The word is accepted. Somehow I don't think context changes anything; if you are not black, be careful where and how you use the word.
Also, if a person from Pakistan calls someone from Pakistan a shortened version of Pakistani, is that racist in the same way that someone not from Pakistan saying it?
Raccaccoonie said:
gotoPzero said:
I am of Indian descent.
The "P" word is pretty common, in fact I would say very, very common in India.
Its also very common within people from Pakistan, IME.
What ruined it was in the 60s and 70s was d*ck heads who started to use it as an insult.
Its very, very common for people from the "stans" to drop the stan. And replace with "i".
No one says its a problem to call someone from Afghanistan an Afghani.
We dont call it the A word.
We dont have an issue with Uzbeki. There is no "U" word. People from Uzbekistan are not up in arms about it.
Because it wasnt used as an insult. But here we are.
FWIW Indian guys call each other "yaar" which basically means mate, it was never an insult but its basically the Indian version of what the N word is now to young black Americans - which is a term thats generally used between friends.
Weird my brother's wife is Indian and hates the word, as do all her family. It doesn't really help that even in these modern times she has still been called it,(Yes the Irony isn't lost on her) this innocuous word according to PH, quite a few times , I think the most recent was 6 months ago in a park.The "P" word is pretty common, in fact I would say very, very common in India.
Its also very common within people from Pakistan, IME.
What ruined it was in the 60s and 70s was d*ck heads who started to use it as an insult.
Its very, very common for people from the "stans" to drop the stan. And replace with "i".
No one says its a problem to call someone from Afghanistan an Afghani.
We dont call it the A word.
We dont have an issue with Uzbeki. There is no "U" word. People from Uzbekistan are not up in arms about it.
Because it wasnt used as an insult. But here we are.
FWIW Indian guys call each other "yaar" which basically means mate, it was never an insult but its basically the Indian version of what the N word is now to young black Americans - which is a term thats generally used between friends.
I guess the majority on here haven't faced daily insults to understand that a term might destroy the person , but they still smile, but inside broken up. I think that is why some, not everyone, may try to use it as a way to take it's power away.
But like most things in life, complex things can't really be distilled into one sentence answers.
Edited by Raccaccoonie on Thursday 23 March 02:11
As I am sure you will know having Indian family if an Indian person wants to insult you then you will know about it!
Glassman said:
Perhaps the burden lies with you.
I'm mixed race/heritage; half caste, whatever the buzz phrase is these days (I don't care).
One of my grandfathers was Scottish (descendant of the Clan Kerr) and the other was from North India; I have a Bajan stepfather and an Indian stepmother (parents parted ways when I was young).
I have a Polish girlfriend.
My friends and associates are African, Brazilian, Greek, Italian, Jamaican, Turkish, Indian, Polish, Portuguese, Scottish, Welsh... you name it.
You say experience?
Okay.
What did your friends say when you asked them this question?I'm mixed race/heritage; half caste, whatever the buzz phrase is these days (I don't care).
One of my grandfathers was Scottish (descendant of the Clan Kerr) and the other was from North India; I have a Bajan stepfather and an Indian stepmother (parents parted ways when I was young).
I have a Polish girlfriend.
My friends and associates are African, Brazilian, Greek, Italian, Jamaican, Turkish, Indian, Polish, Portuguese, Scottish, Welsh... you name it.
You say experience?
Okay.
My wife's a teacher and it's a genuine problem.
Some teachers have the rule that nobody uses the N word regardless of their ethnic background. Obvs that causes angst when someone who feels they have the right to use it gets told to stop.
Other teachers take the alternative view and let some of the kids use the N word which allow the kids to complain about use of the word.
Kids are b
ds, they exploit it both ways.
Some teachers have the rule that nobody uses the N word regardless of their ethnic background. Obvs that causes angst when someone who feels they have the right to use it gets told to stop.
Other teachers take the alternative view and let some of the kids use the N word which allow the kids to complain about use of the word.
Kids are b
ds, they exploit it both ways.I am going to attempt to answer the question in good faith.
Language and communication is all about nuance and the meaning of words is all about context.
The context is utterly different when a pejorative is used by a member of an 'in group' to refer to an 'out group', versus members of a group referring to each other.
Context is also different between cultures and countries, which is why it might possibly be forgivable (but still deplorable) when an American uses the P-word, but it never is when used by a white Brit.
Language and communication is all about nuance and the meaning of words is all about context.
The context is utterly different when a pejorative is used by a member of an 'in group' to refer to an 'out group', versus members of a group referring to each other.
Context is also different between cultures and countries, which is why it might possibly be forgivable (but still deplorable) when an American uses the P-word, but it never is when used by a white Brit.
Try living in a country where racial slurs from your homeland are a word used to describe a fine/sunny day. And there's a car licence plate with the same word.
Whilst I'm grown up enough to know the difference, it was strange when I first moved to NZ.
If you're bored, go to Google maps and have a look at street names in Urenui in New Zealand.
Whilst I'm grown up enough to know the difference, it was strange when I first moved to NZ.
If you're bored, go to Google maps and have a look at street names in Urenui in New Zealand.
I must be naïve or maybe it's because I live in Ireland but I didn't know the abbreviation of Pakistani was considered offensive. I though it was more like calling me a "Paddy". Admittedly I have only one Pakistani friend but you'd think he would have told me. I must have really offended him over the years. He's probably just waiting for me to offend the wrong person.
While we are on the subject, can I nominate "Paddy" for the banned word list? It actually doesn't offend me but I would like a reason to get up on my high-horse and talk about how I've been offended and my human rights have been violated. Perhaps I could get my picture in the Daily Mail. Maybe South Park will do a satirical episode. That's when you know you've made it.
While we are on the subject, can I nominate "Paddy" for the banned word list? It actually doesn't offend me but I would like a reason to get up on my high-horse and talk about how I've been offended and my human rights have been violated. Perhaps I could get my picture in the Daily Mail. Maybe South Park will do a satirical episode. That's when you know you've made it.
Glassman said:
durbster said:
What did your friends say when you asked them this question?
A positive response, and all in agreement because it's a matter of double standards. Not how a bunch of PHers here are reading it. PH: "Sorry mate, looks like you could be, but here's how not to be."
OP: "My mates tell me I'm not, so PH you are wrong. Wrong!"
minimalist said:
I must be naïve or maybe it's because I live in Ireland but I didn't know the abbreviation of Pakistani was considered offensive. I though it was more like calling me a "Paddy". Admittedly I have only one Pakistani friend but you'd think he would have told me. I must have really offended him over the years. He's probably just waiting for me to offend the wrong person.
While we are on the subject, can I nominate "Paddy" for the banned word list? It actually doesn't offend me but I would like a reason to get up on my high-horse and talk about how I've been offended and my human rights have been violated. Perhaps I could get my picture in the Daily Mail. Maybe South Park will do a satirical episode. That's when you know you've made it.
Daft argument is daft. While we are on the subject, can I nominate "Paddy" for the banned word list? It actually doesn't offend me but I would like a reason to get up on my high-horse and talk about how I've been offended and my human rights have been violated. Perhaps I could get my picture in the Daily Mail. Maybe South Park will do a satirical episode. That's when you know you've made it.
How many people are actually called Paddy or Patrick and abbreviated in Ireland, or elsewhere?
How many people are called and registered as P- word or N-word on their birth certificates?
I call my mates by the C-word as a term of endearment occasionally. I don’t think it would end too well if I wandered round calling strangers or acquaintances the same word.
LF5335 said:
minimalist said:
I must be naïve or maybe it's because I live in Ireland but I didn't know the abbreviation of Pakistani was considered offensive. I though it was more like calling me a "Paddy". Admittedly I have only one Pakistani friend but you'd think he would have told me. I must have really offended him over the years. He's probably just waiting for me to offend the wrong person.
While we are on the subject, can I nominate "Paddy" for the banned word list? It actually doesn't offend me but I would like a reason to get up on my high-horse and talk about how I've been offended and my human rights have been violated. Perhaps I could get my picture in the Daily Mail. Maybe South Park will do a satirical episode. That's when you know you've made it.
Daft argument is daft. While we are on the subject, can I nominate "Paddy" for the banned word list? It actually doesn't offend me but I would like a reason to get up on my high-horse and talk about how I've been offended and my human rights have been violated. Perhaps I could get my picture in the Daily Mail. Maybe South Park will do a satirical episode. That's when you know you've made it.
How many people are actually called Paddy or Patrick and abbreviated in Ireland, or elsewhere?
How many people are called and registered as P- word or N-word on their birth certificates?
I call my mates by the C-word as a term of endearment occasionally. I don’t think it would end too well if I wandered round calling strangers or acquaintances the same word.
Glassman said:
If the 'n' word is unacceptable, it should be unacceptable irrespective of who uses it. Fair?
Understanding these things requires a little historical enquiry. N can be traced back to the early 1600s when Africans were considered beasts of burden alongside Cows, Horses, Donkeys, etc; a commodity to be traded, used and discarded when they're done. N was used by slave traders and slave owners as a collective noun in the same way one might use the term Cattle for Cows. Black people began to claim 'N' as their own word, owning their own agenda and over time, became common parlance amongst black communities around the world. The key word here is community; black people have taken control of a word used to describe them previously in a context that is abhorrent through the lens of today. In simple terms, Black People have earned the right to use the word. White people long lost the right to use it (and never had the right in the first place).
An analogy (a weak one, granted, but).....
Assuming you are White, Anglo Saxon, British, a curiosity of this group is the greeting of peers by means of abuse. If I'm walking through town and someone I know might greet me with something along the lines of "Hey, Stevie, you fat
!, How you doing?". Because they are part of my peer group, this is peculiarly acceptable. Funny, almost. But if someone outside of my peer group greeted me in the same way, my reaction would be entirely different because the context is different...... and I'm not (that) fat!plenty said:
Glassman said:
durbster said:
What did your friends say when you asked them this question?
A positive response, and all in agreement because it's a matter of double standards. Not how a bunch of PHers here are reading it. PH: "Sorry mate, looks like you could be, but here's how not to be."
OP: "My mates tell me I'm not, so PH you are wrong. Wrong!"
Glassman said:
LF5335 said:
It’s exactly the sort of question a 10 year old would ask. Adults should be more aware of the world as they gain experience. The fact you’ve chosen this topic to discuss shows what sort of experience you’ve gained.
Perhaps the burden lies with you. I'm mixed race/heritage; half caste, whatever the buzz phrase is these days (I don't care).
One of my grandfathers was Scottish (descendant of the Clan Kerr) and the other was from North India; I have a Bajan stepfather and an Indian stepmother (parents parted ways when I was young).
I have a Polish girlfriend.
My friends and associates are African, Brazilian, Greek, Italian, Jamaican, Turkish, Indian, Polish, Portuguese, Scottish, Welsh... you name it.
You say experience?
Okay.
In any case, what benefit would being able to use the word bring you? Is it really that much of a hardship to not use it?
plenty said:
Same to you. 'Paddy' was in fact considered pejorative for decades. The fact it is no longer used widely is because the Irish are no longer considered an out group overseas. Something which you seem to wish to deny other groups seeking the same status.
What status am I wishing to deny anyone? The right to decide to be offended by a word? BTW, "Paddy" is still considered and used as a pejorative term in some places. Its just that we have thick skin and don't cry about it.
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