Discussion
Discussed this matter with a friend who has built up a small portfolio of properties to provide a rental income, he has talked about the problem with his wife who likes him as little as he likes her. They agree to stay married and will keep the name of each in their wills as beneficiaries.
They have taken advice from a solicitor who wanted £2500 just to read what they had agreed and then £200 per hour or part thereof (even two minutes) for any work done on their behalf. Price goes up substantially if the junior solicitor needs to consult a Partner in the practice, (again even if it is for two minutes)
He is almost 70 and cannot be bothered with it.
They have taken advice from a solicitor who wanted £2500 just to read what they had agreed and then £200 per hour or part thereof (even two minutes) for any work done on their behalf. Price goes up substantially if the junior solicitor needs to consult a Partner in the practice, (again even if it is for two minutes)
He is almost 70 and cannot be bothered with it.
sjc said:
Towards the end when we were nearly done,she called it off unless I paid off her 9 grand credit card bill. When I did the figures, even when I paid that,after her 20 grand lawyer bill she ended up worse off than with my initial offer ( done without lawyers) 3 years earlier.Forty grand of our kids inheritance wasted,three years of our kids stuck in the middle… I’ll never forgive her.
You really don't know the person you married until it comes to divorce, and then the real personality they tried to hide for all those years comes out.I got divorced 11 years ago and she has since got remarried, despite paying child maintenance for the last 11 years I still get the "They need new shoes", "Just paid for this". It's almost comical, if I get a "how are you" message I know I will then get another demand for money as she will never contact me otherwise. I am playing the long game and I still pay half, but they are 16 and 17 now and so there will come a point where this will stop (or more likely I will give the money straight to them).
Looking forward to the day when I can tell her the children are grown up now so the bank has closed it's doors for good. I suspect the money I give her each month is a large percentage of her monthly income so she will be screwed.
sjc said:
wiggy001 said:
Correct but often it is the only way when dealing with an unreasonable entitled ex.
During my divorce, my factory had to be valued as part of the pot. I got a commercial estate in who valued it at circa 225k. She didn’t believe that was accurate so at £750 + vat (that I had to pay half of) she demanded she got a “ professional surveyor in.. who valued it at 215K. So she lost 5 grand along with £375 +vat.Towards the end when we were nearly done,she called it off unless I paid off her 9 grand credit card bill. When I did the figures, even when I paid that,after her 20 grand lawyer bill she ended up worse off than with my initial offer ( done without lawyers) 3 years earlier.Forty grand of our kids inheritance wasted,three years of our kids stuck in the middle… I’ll never forgive her.
Apart from an unreasonable entitled ex, you also face an uphill battle with the legal professionals who has every interest keeping the game alive for long as possible! As my solicitor warned to me in our initial meeting, he expect some "interest" from the other parties due to the size of my assets. He wasn't wrong, as my ex's solicitors used every dirty tricks to induce more senseless work which incurred more unnecessarily legal fees for me. I was dragged into this legal battle I didn't want as I had to respond to counter my ex's stream of lies, and false accusations against me including threat with child order arrangements/C100 form!!! (All in a ploy to increase the child custody --> claim for more maintenance). Usually, I am one for live and forget, but like you, I just can't forgive my ex.
Vasco said:
skyebear said:
Your friend needs to be seen to lose. Concede something the wife perceives as substantial. It'll be cheaper than paying a solicitor and the kids will inherit everything eventually.
Yes, this.Mum is currently still single but what would / should have come back to me there is now being split at least 3 ways with other siblings, which is fine as the other 2 need it more than me. My dad got himself a new bird who is an arse and has manipulated him into funding her lifestyle so he basically has no money left and has made him put 90% of his assets, property etc into her name so her and her kids will get it all.
Their combined legal bill was about £80k too over the couple of years it took.
They both came out of it ok and didn't need to work anymore. I got a damaged business and stuck paying tens of thousands extra on a mortgage that should have been paid off by now and about £450k of what I would have if they had stayed together going to other people.
kingswood said:
generally asking for a friend, my divorce went like clock work so can't really help beyond telling him to try reason with her.
facts: married 30 years. 2 grown up kids - 25/30. £300k house paid off. business each - £50k net profit a year. £10k car.
he left, breakdown in marriage, grown apart etc. renting £700 a month. she's in the house. since sold the car and not given him anything.
now he wants a divorce, she's saying she's signing nothing, giving him nothing etc etc. she's keeping the lot, he left etc etc. 2 kids are trying to reason with her, amicable on both sides with the kids. tbf pretty 'normal' family.
looking online, divorce is £593. he wants to split the assets 50/50, house and cash. keep a business each. she can have all the assets in the house - he'll concede that for an easy life.
but she's still been difficult.
what's his best options please?!
File for divorce online himself - you don't need a solicitor at this point. Once the divorce application is served, she'll have 14 days to respond by sending back the Acknowledgement of Service form to the court. facts: married 30 years. 2 grown up kids - 25/30. £300k house paid off. business each - £50k net profit a year. £10k car.
he left, breakdown in marriage, grown apart etc. renting £700 a month. she's in the house. since sold the car and not given him anything.
now he wants a divorce, she's saying she's signing nothing, giving him nothing etc etc. she's keeping the lot, he left etc etc. 2 kids are trying to reason with her, amicable on both sides with the kids. tbf pretty 'normal' family.
looking online, divorce is £593. he wants to split the assets 50/50, house and cash. keep a business each. she can have all the assets in the house - he'll concede that for an easy life.
but she's still been difficult.
what's his best options please?!
If she wants to dispute the divorce, she'll have 21 days to submit the reply.
If she doesn't reply, your friend can apply for a conditional order after 20 weeks and as long as this is properly served, the divorce can still go through.
Once the initial 14 or 21 days has passed, make an appointment with a divorce solicitor using the free 1/2 - 1 hour service most operate. Make sure all the information needed for the meeting is at hand so it's not an hour of "what can i do?" and more "i believe this is the case, am i correct?"
After that, get a fixed price if possible for finalising the divorce and the financial consent clean break order from the solicitor.
And then - this is the most important bit - he'll need to work out what he's prepared to compromise on to get this situation resolved as quickly and painlessly as possible. She'll have to do the same. Giving up the assets in the home is reasonable offer.
He'll know it's a good settlement when they are both pissed off about it.
From the sounds of the soon to be ex, she'll delay, argue, fight all the way through up to a point and then it'll go through. Always does seemingly.
The hardest bit will be getting her to understand that what's being offered now is most likely the best she'll get. But she'll listen to friends and appoint a solicitor, paying someone to tell her she'll potentially get more. Then she'll come for more and eventually get ground down.
If the kids are amicable with both parents, that might be the key to resolution mind - is arguing over money worth spoiling those relationships?
Other than that, agree i'd never get married again, won't forgive the ex for what she put the kids through and just happy to be on the other side of this equation. And my divorce was relatively pain free!
Good luck to him.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
It's why you have to be crazy to get married. You are effectively signing a contract that has zero benefit to you and gives all the power and benefit to the other person. It's a contract that is just sitting there to massively bite you on the arse at some point, a sword of Damocles hanging over your head.
You are effectively giving the other person the legal power to massively f
k up your life if they decide they don't want to be with you for any reason in the future.
I know, standard Pistonheads response will be "Incel" or "You just married the wrong woman". Yet it still happens to almost 50% of men at some point in their life. Just keep thinking "But that will never happen to me, she loves me"
For most men there's never been any significant long term advantage of getting married. Any benefits are invariably short term.You are effectively giving the other person the legal power to massively f
k up your life if they decide they don't want to be with you for any reason in the future.I know, standard Pistonheads response will be "Incel" or "You just married the wrong woman". Yet it still happens to almost 50% of men at some point in their life. Just keep thinking "But that will never happen to me, she loves me"
.
lenny007 said:
File for divorce online himself - you don't need a solicitor at this point. Once the divorce application is served, she'll have 14 days to respond by sending back the Acknowledgement of Service form to the court.
If she wants to dispute the divorce, she'll have 21 days to submit the reply.
If she doesn't reply, your friend can apply for a conditional order after 20 weeks and as long as this is properly served, the divorce can still go through.
Once the initial 14 or 21 days has passed, make an appointment with a divorce solicitor using the free 1/2 - 1 hour service most operate. Make sure all the information needed for the meeting is at hand so it's not an hour of "what can i do?" and more "i believe this is the case, am i correct?"
After that, get a fixed price if possible for finalising the divorce and the financial consent clean break order from the solicitor.
And then - this is the most important bit - he'll need to work out what he's prepared to compromise on to get this situation resolved as quickly and painlessly as possible. She'll have to do the same. Giving up the assets in the home is reasonable offer.
He'll know it's a good settlement when they are both pissed off about it.
From the sounds of the soon to be ex, she'll delay, argue, fight all the way through up to a point and then it'll go through. Always does seemingly.
The hardest bit will be getting her to understand that what's being offered now is most likely the best she'll get. But she'll listen to friends and appoint a solicitor, paying someone to tell her she'll potentially get more. Then she'll come for more and eventually get ground down.
If the kids are amicable with both parents, that might be the key to resolution mind - is arguing over money worth spoiling those relationships?
Other than that, agree i'd never get married again, won't forgive the ex for what she put the kids through and just happy to be on the other side of this equation. And my divorce was relatively pain free!
Good luck to him.
Totally agree 100%. I found out my ex wife was seeing someone else (although to this day she denies it) so I moved out. I then applied for a divorce, back then it wasn't online but all I needed was a copy of the marriage certificate, the filled in form and a cheque.If she wants to dispute the divorce, she'll have 21 days to submit the reply.
If she doesn't reply, your friend can apply for a conditional order after 20 weeks and as long as this is properly served, the divorce can still go through.
Once the initial 14 or 21 days has passed, make an appointment with a divorce solicitor using the free 1/2 - 1 hour service most operate. Make sure all the information needed for the meeting is at hand so it's not an hour of "what can i do?" and more "i believe this is the case, am i correct?"
After that, get a fixed price if possible for finalising the divorce and the financial consent clean break order from the solicitor.
And then - this is the most important bit - he'll need to work out what he's prepared to compromise on to get this situation resolved as quickly and painlessly as possible. She'll have to do the same. Giving up the assets in the home is reasonable offer.
He'll know it's a good settlement when they are both pissed off about it.
From the sounds of the soon to be ex, she'll delay, argue, fight all the way through up to a point and then it'll go through. Always does seemingly.
The hardest bit will be getting her to understand that what's being offered now is most likely the best she'll get. But she'll listen to friends and appoint a solicitor, paying someone to tell her she'll potentially get more. Then she'll come for more and eventually get ground down.
If the kids are amicable with both parents, that might be the key to resolution mind - is arguing over money worth spoiling those relationships?
Other than that, agree i'd never get married again, won't forgive the ex for what she put the kids through and just happy to be on the other side of this equation. And my divorce was relatively pain free!
Good luck to him.
It certainly made it all a lot more real for her when the papers arrived, certainly broke the fantasy of her living in the house on her own, me paying for everything and her going away to stay with lover boy at the weekend when I had the children.
As you say, once she gets speaking to the hive her friends will all be encouraging her to "take him for all he's worth", all of them living out their divorce fantasises vicariously through your wife.
When you go for the free initial solicitor consolation, don't do what I do and stay over the allotted time just chatting. I thought nothing of it until I got a bill for £200 because I had gone over time. I soon wised up that you will be charged for everything, they are not your friend and are only there to make money off the back of your misery.
As you say, it seem to go on forever and then one day the decree nisi will arrive and you will know the end is in sight. It really does mess up the children as well, I am sure that is why my eldest has issues now.
But still, I guess it seemed worth it at the time so that one person could have sex with someone new (the main reason most people get divorced) and who initially appeared more exciting. However, the grass is rarely greener.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
It's why you have to be crazy to get married. You are effectively signing a contract that has zero benefit to you and gives all the power and benefit to the other person. It's a contract that is just sitting there to massively bite you on the arse at some point, a sword of Damocles hanging over your head.
You are effectively giving the other person the legal power to massively fk up your life if they decide they don't want to be with you for any reason in the future.
I know, standard Pistonheads response will be "Incel" or "You just married the wrong woman". Yet it still happens to almost 50% of men at some point in their life. Just keep thinking "But that will never happen to me, she loves me"
Using these stats, there's as many men in happy, long term, un-divorced relationships as not. This contract 'from hell' that you describe is a two-way street, don't forget.You are effectively giving the other person the legal power to massively f
k up your life if they decide they don't want to be with you for any reason in the future.I know, standard Pistonheads response will be "Incel" or "You just married the wrong woman". Yet it still happens to almost 50% of men at some point in their life. Just keep thinking "But that will never happen to me, she loves me"
Inter-twining your life with someone else in a marriage is always something complex to undo, the longer you've been married the worse that is.
But I think some men expect that because they've been earning the lion's share of the money, they should keep it all when they divorce. Objectively, that's not the right outlook.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Totally agree 100%. I found out my ex wife was seeing someone else (although to this day she denies it) so I moved out. I then applied for a divorce, back then it wasn't online but all I needed was a copy of the marriage certificate, the filled in form and a cheque.
It certainly made it all a lot more real for her when the papers arrived, certainly broke the fantasy of her living in the house on her own, me paying for everything and her going away to stay with lover boy at the weekend when I had the children.
As you say, once she gets speaking to the hive her friends will all be encouraging her to "take him for all he's worth", all of them living out their divorce fantasises vicariously through your wife.
When you go for the free initial solicitor consolation, don't do what I do and stay over the allotted time just chatting. I thought nothing of it until I got a bill for £200 because I had gone over time. I soon wised up that you will be charged for everything, they are not your friend and are only there to make money off the back of your misery.
As you say, it seem to go on forever and then one day the decree nisi will arrive and you will know the end is in sight. It really does mess up the children as well, I am sure that is why my eldest has issues now.
But still, I guess it seemed worth it at the time so that one person could have sex with someone new (the main reason most people get divorced) and who initially appeared more exciting. However, the grass is rarely greener.
Para 1 - as my divorce only i refused to move out to be there for my kids. She ended up being away 3-4 days a week at his and then into her own place literally weeks before she moved out fully. Still don't understand that one. Then again, she married him 6 months later and still don't live together so perhaps i'm not the issue in that situation. It certainly made it all a lot more real for her when the papers arrived, certainly broke the fantasy of her living in the house on her own, me paying for everything and her going away to stay with lover boy at the weekend when I had the children.
As you say, once she gets speaking to the hive her friends will all be encouraging her to "take him for all he's worth", all of them living out their divorce fantasises vicariously through your wife.
When you go for the free initial solicitor consolation, don't do what I do and stay over the allotted time just chatting. I thought nothing of it until I got a bill for £200 because I had gone over time. I soon wised up that you will be charged for everything, they are not your friend and are only there to make money off the back of your misery.
As you say, it seem to go on forever and then one day the decree nisi will arrive and you will know the end is in sight. It really does mess up the children as well, I am sure that is why my eldest has issues now.
But still, I guess it seemed worth it at the time so that one person could have sex with someone new (the main reason most people get divorced) and who initially appeared more exciting. However, the grass is rarely greener.
Para 2 - yup
Para 3 - yup
Para 4 - my solicitor was an actual superstar. Calls of an evening, emails at weekends, the lot. Then when the invoice came in i chased them for the rest of the bill as i was expecting £5K plus. All in, including me applying for the divorce cost about £1200. Still can't believe that now.
Para 5 - the date i could finalise my divorce, i clicked on the emailed link, filled in the confirmation and clicked yes. Reached for a drink of coffee and had an email instantly saying it was over. 8 months of work and stress and worry and it was done and dusted in about 5 seconds.
Para 6 - totally. Even though they are married and soon to be moving in together (which i'm not meant to know but i have done for months), i can see that the life she had isn't going to be reappearing with her new Husband. Still, not my circus, not my monkeys.
Funnily enough, reading this thread reminded me of something she said when she received the application for divorce. I had to list a number of reasons why the marriage had broken down and that i wanted a divorce due to unreasonable behaviour. Her reply was that she thought she should be able to respond to the claims as she thought they were "unfair" and that she'd been behaving reasonably.
It was only when i pointed out people usually didn't get divorced due to reasonable behaviour that the penny dropped.
Muzzer79 said:
Using these stats, there's as many men in happy, long term, un-divorced relationships as not. This contract 'from hell' that you describe is a two-way street, don't forget.
If we assume 50% of marriages end in divorce then I guarantee that the remaining 50% of marriages are not happy. You only have to go on Reddit and look at deadbedrooms to realise how many men are in sexless marriages and are basically resigned to this being their lot in life.70% of divorces are instigated by women, the reason for this is that they have everything to gain and little to lose.
I remember showing one of my married friends Tinder and the women I had been seeing. Despite me having zero money, living at my parents and clearly having a stressful time of it he replied "I envy you". Marriage has to be pretty bad if you say that! He is still married and I occasionally see his photos on Facebook, I suspect he hasn't had sex since his second child was conceived about 15 years ago.
lenny007 said:
Funnily enough, reading this thread reminded me of something she said when she received the application for divorce. I had to list a number of reasons why the marriage had broken down and that i wanted a divorce due to unreasonable behaviour. Her reply was that she thought she should be able to respond to the claims as she thought they were "unfair" and that she'd been behaving reasonably.
It was only when i pointed out people usually didn't get divorced due to reasonable behaviour that the penny dropped.
I assume this is standard female divorce behaviour as mine was exactly the same. She phoned me as soon as the divorce documents came through the door, as if this was all some sort of shock.It was only when i pointed out people usually didn't get divorced due to reasonable behaviour that the penny dropped.
I would love to know what she told all her friends when this happened, I am certain she would have told everyone that it was all my fault.
Muzzer79 said:
But I think some men expect that because they've been earning the lion's share of the money, they should keep it all when they divorce. Objectively, that's not the right outlook.
Most that I know of, like myself, expected to share our marital assets and the custody of our children 50/50 despite earning the lion's share and paying for the ex to stay at home when she could/should have been working.The ex expected, in my case, full custody and 100% of our marital assets.
It was her that had unreasonable expectations, as confirmed by several judges. We now share custody of our girls equally and she got 50% of my pension and 60% of the equity in the home.
She was driven by greed. And a greedy fake solicitor (McKenzie Friend [sic] that thought he was better than he was). This needs to change.
Muzzer79 said:
milesgiles said:
Muzzer79 said:
milesgiles said:
Help78 said:
milesgiles said:
Muzzer79 said:
An ex-colleague of mine got divorced in his late 40s
Paid off house (c. £400k)
Pension (c. £500k)
Cash in the bank (c. £250k)
And they had two kids, both in early teens.
He struck a deal where all the assets, including the above, were split 50/50.
What really annoyed his now-ex-wife was that he also moved for (and demonstrated it was practical to have) 50/50 custody of the kids, so he didn't have to pay child maintenance (she assumed that she'd get it regardless)
OK, he was annoyed about writing a cheque for the thick end of half a million quid for her 50% share, but it was objectively the right thing to do and he got a clean break.
Good legal representation is key to getting a decent settlement, if you have to go legal.
Doesn’t sound right. Why wouldn’t she get child support ?Paid off house (c. £400k)
Pension (c. £500k)
Cash in the bank (c. £250k)
And they had two kids, both in early teens.
He struck a deal where all the assets, including the above, were split 50/50.
What really annoyed his now-ex-wife was that he also moved for (and demonstrated it was practical to have) 50/50 custody of the kids, so he didn't have to pay child maintenance (she assumed that she'd get it regardless)
OK, he was annoyed about writing a cheque for the thick end of half a million quid for her 50% share, but it was objectively the right thing to do and he got a clean break.
Good legal representation is key to getting a decent settlement, if you have to go legal.
Obviously there are extremes - if you've installed your kids in private school and your wife has been a stay-at-home all their lives, you've got problems if you divorce.
But in a more regular situation, like my ex-colleague, where both parents work (the children were, as mentioned, early teens) then the father is by no means obligated to shoulder the lion's share of cost for the children.
My colleague simply said, via his lawyer, that if his ex didn't like the 50/50 arrangement with no maintenance either way, then he was more than willing to have the children live with him full time.
Obviously, you need to be able to follow through with that - demonstrably so - but he could so he got his deal. His ex was apoplectic......
I’m doubtful
Seems more likely he is making out he got a better deal than he really did to his friends. Plenty of blokes egos can’t handle a divorce rape
Edited by milesgiles on Tuesday 4th March 00:21
But hey, you go ahead and die on that hill.
Here's an idea. This is what I would do.
I'd make a list of everything jointly owned and ask my grown up kids to make a suggestion of a settlement which they think fair for both of us.
I think it would be easier for them if we didn't state our case about what we wanted the settlement to look like..
I know that both my kids (27 and 31) have over the last few years have been quite the diplomats. And neither take any st like emotional blackmail.
I'd make a list of everything jointly owned and ask my grown up kids to make a suggestion of a settlement which they think fair for both of us.
I think it would be easier for them if we didn't state our case about what we wanted the settlement to look like..
I know that both my kids (27 and 31) have over the last few years have been quite the diplomats. And neither take any s
t like emotional blackmail. ThingsBehindTheSun said:
It's why you have to be crazy to get married. You are effectively signing a contract that has zero benefit to you and gives all the power and benefit to the other person. It's a contract that is just sitting there to massively bite you on the arse at some point, a sword of Damocles hanging over your head.
You are effectively giving the other person the legal power to massively fk up your life if they decide they don't want to be with you for any reason in the future.
I've been in a long-term relationship without marriage and having seen the ugly side of divorce as a kid, I prefer to stay in my relationship because I 'want to' rather than have to. The OH is very well-cared for either way.You are effectively giving the other person the legal power to massively f
k up your life if they decide they don't want to be with you for any reason in the future.I've got several long-term married male friends who I can tell live with some level of constant underlying fear their wives will leave them and implode their lives, and threads like this only serve as a reminder of this.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
I remember showing one of my married friends Tinder and the women I had been seeing. Despite me having zero money, living at my parents and clearly having a stressful time of it he replied "I envy you". Marriage has to be pretty bad if you say that! He is still married and I occasionally see his photos on Facebook, I suspect he hasn't had sex since his second child was conceived about 15 years ago.
Sounds more likely he was taking pity on you and trying to make you feel better about your situation.From a friend's experience I echo the notion that solicitors are the ones who make the whole situation much more acrimonious and ensure it goes on as long as possible, for obvious reasons.
milesgiles said:
Muzzer79 said:
milesgiles said:
Muzzer79 said:
An ex-colleague of mine got divorced in his late 40s
Paid off house (c. £400k)
Pension (c. £500k)
Cash in the bank (c. £250k)
And they had two kids, both in early teens.
He struck a deal where all the assets, including the above, were split 50/50.
What really annoyed his now-ex-wife was that he also moved for (and demonstrated it was practical to have) 50/50 custody of the kids, so he didn't have to pay child maintenance (she assumed that she'd get it regardless)
OK, he was annoyed about writing a cheque for the thick end of half a million quid for her 50% share, but it was objectively the right thing to do and he got a clean break.
Good legal representation is key to getting a decent settlement, if you have to go legal.
I’m doubtful Paid off house (c. £400k)
Pension (c. £500k)
Cash in the bank (c. £250k)
And they had two kids, both in early teens.
He struck a deal where all the assets, including the above, were split 50/50.
What really annoyed his now-ex-wife was that he also moved for (and demonstrated it was practical to have) 50/50 custody of the kids, so he didn't have to pay child maintenance (she assumed that she'd get it regardless)
OK, he was annoyed about writing a cheque for the thick end of half a million quid for her 50% share, but it was objectively the right thing to do and he got a clean break.
Good legal representation is key to getting a decent settlement, if you have to go legal.
Seems more likely he is making out he got a better deal than he really did to his friends. Plenty of blokes egos can’t handle a divorce rape
But hey, you go ahead and die on that hill.
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