Depression

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Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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Zwolf said:
What you describe sounds very much like cycles of depression and hypomania - an attenuated form of full blown delusional mania that often includes features psychosis.

These are differentiated as Bipolar I Disorder and Bipolar II Disorder (the Wiki descriptions are very accurate and contain the diagnostic criteria as defined by psychiatrists). Also look up cyclothymia, a lesser heard of depressive disorder - there isn't just one form of depression, clinically speaking.

My father and both my half-siblings are BP I (or "manic-depressive" as we used to call it in the UK), my mother is afflicted by good old unipolar Major Depressive Disorder and I'm BP II (hypomanic-depressive). Around 1 in 4 people are affected by the condition at some stage of their life.

I could elaborate my personal experiences of living with the condition both as a sufferer and as a supporter of a loved one with the condition, but basically I'm a boringly textbook presentation and so is she, our specifics aren't vital to anyone's (who doesn't know us) understanding of the condition.

I've related a few bits in various discussions before and that's as much as I wish to do so publically. I'm quite open to private discussion though if it helps a fellow sufferer of a depressive condition.
I've been doing a bit of reading on BP lately. It has crossed my mind before and after a little more reading BP II fits (up until the point of Hypomania lasting days. My 'happy' only lasts for a matter of hours). Of course I'm wary about going down the route of self diagnosing being a firm believer that If you stare long enough at pieces of a puzzle pieces that don't fit can seem like they do. I’m in two minds whether I should push my GP for a referral to see someone soon or spend a while working off the angle that this is depression and nothing else. Early days yet though, only on a low dose of meds and still have the wonders of cringingly patronizing counselling to come. Yay.

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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Why would you want a diagnosis of bipolar? I ask this as an open question, mainly because I often see the other end of BP... People who are trying their damdest to get away from the labels and the stigma that having a registered mental illness brings. Just curious really.

UpTheIron

3,992 posts

267 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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So... a 20 minute chat with a GP I have never met before results in a prescription for Citalopram. I remain unconvinced that jumping straight onto a happy pill is the answer.

I know full well that the Internet will be full of stories of ineffectiveness (at best) and horrendous side effects (at worst) - I own a TVR after all, and I know the truth of owning a Speed 6 isn't nearly as bad as Google suggests smile

Has anyone been in the same situation? Anything positive to say?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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drivin_me_nuts said:
Why would you want a diagnosis of bipolar? I ask this as an open question, mainly because I often see the other end of BP... People who are trying their damdest to get away from the labels and the stigma that having a registered mental illness brings. Just curious really.
I don't want a diagnosis of anything. I want to live a good, stable, fulfilling, healthy life.

If there is something standing in the way of that I want to know what it is and how to I want to fight it. Why wouldn't I?

Zwolf

25,867 posts

205 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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drivin_me_nuts said:
Why would you want a diagnosis of bipolar? I ask this as an open question, mainly because I often see the other end of BP... People who are trying their damdest to get away from the labels and the stigma that having a registered mental illness brings. Just curious really.
It's not a thing you want any more than you want any other medical diagnosis. Whether you're diagnosed or not, doesn't alter whether you have a condition or not, but if you are it means that your past actions, patterns of behaviour and thought can be understood through a particular framework and treatment can begin to address both symptoms and manage the underlying cause - which is physiological, not purely psychological.

That is why a diagnosis of any medical condition helps, somatic or psychiatric. IMo it's that very attitude you mention that actually perpetuates stigma about mental health issues. Stigma persists because of 19th century thinking and it's ridiculous. We accept every other organ and system of the body gets ill from time to time or doesn't function typically for life in an individual - yet the brain (and consequently the mind) is supposed to be exempt from any ailment or malfunction? Not so.

It's people perpetuating mental health stigma (and sufferers are occasionally some of the worst) that prevents a lot of people seeking help, which is shameful and something that needs to change and for the most part seems to be.

Being diagnosed with a psychiatric condition does not put you on a register for all the world to see, any more than being diagnosed with flu does. You will not be summarily sectioned under the Mental Health Act for being unwell, seeking help and talking about it. That will only occur as a last resort where you are perceived as being a serious risk of harm to yourself or others. You can - and should - talk about any suicidal thoughts or thoughts of other self-harm or self-destructive behaviour.

They can only really fully help if they know the full extent of things, people's inbuilt tendency seems to be to play things down - which prolongs treatment and reduces the potential success. Different approaches work for different folks, between drugs, counselling, psychotherapy, CBT and so on, there will be a balance that makes things bearable day to day. Exercise does help to some extent, as does a good diet and avoiding alcohol as much as possible - it's a depressant after all.


Zwolf

25,867 posts

205 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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UpTheIron said:
So... a 20 minute chat with a GP I have never met before results in a prescription for Citalopram. I remain unconvinced that jumping straight onto a happy pill is the answer.

I know full well that the Internet will be full of stories of ineffectiveness (at best) and horrendous side effects (at worst) - I own a TVR after all, and I know the truth of owning a Speed 6 isn't nearly as bad as Google suggests smile

Has anyone been in the same situation? Anything positive to say?
You're right about the best and worst, but it does work for some - it mostly does for me and has done in various doses (sometimes off completely) and occasionally in combination with other things for years now.

No drug is without potential undesirable side-effects. I've found it mostly just gives me Delhi belly for the first day or two of going back on it after a break or upping dose and again when it clears my system. I can live with that for what it does in between.

It takes ten days-2 weeks or so to begin working effectively. Any change prior to that is due to the power of the placebo effect - whilst it's not a placebo, just the act of taking a pill every day starts you thinking you're getting better. In me though I do now know that there will be a downswing induced as it begins to work. That usually passes over 3-4 days, then things are good for as long as I keep taking it.

My GP first put me on fluoxetine. I'd never been properly suicidal before that, so that side-effect was particularly unwelcome. Drugs can help, but they are not the be all and end all. Your own mental input counts for a lot too. So long as you actively want to get better and take the necessary steps to achieve that, think of the drugs as just taking the edge off enough to let you concentrate sufficiently to do so.

One thing ADs are not, is happy pills.

Insanity Magnet

616 posts

152 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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UpTheIron said:
So... a 20 minute chat with a GP I have never met before results in a prescription for Citalopram. I remain unconvinced that jumping straight onto a happy pill is the answer.

I know full well that the Internet will be full of stories of ineffectiveness (at best) and horrendous side effects (at worst) - I own a TVR after all, and I know the truth of owning a Speed 6 isn't nearly as bad as Google suggests smile

Has anyone been in the same situation? Anything positive to say?
I'm not in the position to comment on your particular situation (not a doctor). Just a word to suggest that if you do start on the tabs, keep an eye out for increased (frequency or strength) mood cycling. Most people seem to be fine on SSRIs (eg Citalopram) but some people (like me) react badly to them.

Personally, if you are able, I would look at getting out for some regular, strenuous exercise and seeing if that makes a difference before resorting to meds. I used to be able to keep a handle on my moods by running a lot, but fell apart after periods when I was unable to exercise due to work commitments.

As usual, your mileage may vary...

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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Thanks for your reply Zwolf. I wholeheartedly agree that negative attitudes perpetuate the huge negativities and sadly you are right in that some if thise who are diagnosed are the most critical if each other.

I do hope attitudes change soon. Having watched the attempted destruction of someone close to me diagnosed with BP by her employers and some of the medical profession itself, I think BP and depression are desperately overdue for a change in attitude. It's interesting also that those I know also talk about organisations such as mind, moving away from psychiatric diagnosis. We live in interesting times mental health wise. Times of change I sincerely hope..

Zwolf

25,867 posts

205 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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Completely agree DMN.

Diagnosis is a useful tool, both in terms of facilitating treatment and improving outcomes, also for furthering our knowledge and understanding of mental illnesses to aid future cases.

There are positive signs of change around and that is encouraging and I try to uphold my pledge to Mind to improve understanding and end stigma where its possible to do so. That's why I'm relatively happy to be open about my condition - it's not a badge of honour (nor is it one of shame or a definition of a person) and like most, I'd rather have a neurotypical mind. Only through knowledge and education will people slowly alter their preconceptions.

However, some of the more Victorian attitudes do persist. Attitudes shifted toward me at a job I'd successfully held when I disclosed my diagnosis (as it occurred, I hadn't kept it hidden previously) to my boss as it was relevant to our insurers. The weird thing was that despite me still being the same person, doing the same job, perceptions did shift. Some were sympathetic, some interested, some concerned and some hostile, so I know a "label" can have negative connotations as much as positive - it doesn't define you though, but people are sometimes content to let it once they know - even if they've known you for years.

"Coming out" to my best friends however was wonderful. They simply said they've always known I was definitely not "normal", but it's just the way they've always known me and nothing for them to fear. That was really reassuring and when progress started to really get made. Support is more important than anything a doctor can say or give you. I'm always mindful that either strangers or new colleagues may just hear the "b word" and make their assumptions accordingly, but most these days are at least halfway aware of the condition and that perfectly productive and successful people presently and through history are affected by mental health conditions too and have been for as long as there have been people.

Ruskie

Original Poster:

3,982 posts

199 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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Glad to see this topic is helping lots of people get advice and help. Good to see. Personally I am having a good spell and the 'fog' has been around for a couple of weeks. Thanks for all the advice.

Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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OP, I get that sometimes, you get up and would simply prefer tio stay in bed. Don't, you'll only feel likke a tt later, having not achieved anything during the day. Set your alarm early, get up, and go do something daft - like cycle to a mates gaff 35 miles away for 9 am on a saturday, or go see a sight you've always meant to, fix the fencem, whatever.

Guaranteed to cheer you up, and its the old school fix from before they invented the happy pills - the terms "cheer yourself up" and "stop feeling sorry for yourself, there's nowt wrong with you" are now socially unacceptable, but to be fair they still work =)

ETA - had an ex on the happy pills, after a short diagnosis. Some days she just couldn't be doing with anthing. 2 years later, she was rediagnosed as diabetic, and was less prone to mood swings.

Edited by Some Gump on Thursday 29th December 20:08

UpTheIron

3,992 posts

267 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
quotequote all
Thanks Zwolf, and apologies for the off the cuff "happy pills" comment... I know full well they are not.
Insanity Magnet said:
Personally, if you are able, I would look at getting out for some regular, strenuous exercise and seeing if that makes a difference before resorting to meds. I used to be able to keep a handle on my moods by running a lot, but fell apart after periods when I was unable to exercise due to work commitments.

As usual, your mileage may vary...
Mileage is usually about 50 - 70 per week (running :-))... although that has dipped until recently due to injury... so where I find myself now is perhaps no coincidence!

Insanity Magnet

616 posts

152 months

Thursday 29th December 2011
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UpTheIron said:
ileage is usually about 50 - 70 per week (running :-))... although that has dipped until recently due to injury... so where I find myself now is perhaps no coincidence!
Those were the days! Now reduced to a slightly brisk walk by clomipramine...

Ruskie

Original Poster:

3,982 posts

199 months

Thursday 9th August 2012
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Having a bad time so decided to re read this thread.

I am in a down period, my relationship is on the brink and yet I carry on as if everything is normal. I am constantly thinking about different scenarios and different paths my life can take. I am fully functioning on the outside but inside I am all over the place. My OH has lost patience with me and now won't talk as I reflect everything back to her. I feel like I need a release of some sort.

Thom987

3,185 posts

165 months

Friday 10th August 2012
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How have things been over the last 8 months? What meds are you on, if any and have you had any counselling?
If your OH is your only outlet then that will put a lot of strain on the relationship.

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Friday 10th August 2012
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Ruskie said:
Having a bad time so decided to re read this thread.

I am in a down period, my relationship is on the brink and yet I carry on as if everything is normal. I am constantly thinking about different scenarios and different paths my life can take. I am fully functioning on the outside but inside I am all over the place. My OH has lost patience with me and now won't talk as I reflect everything back to her. I feel like I need a release of some sort.
Is it that you won't talk or that you feel that you cannot express your thoughts?

Thinking of different paths is both a very 'normal' activity, but also a sign of a mind looking at all the different paths of escape. Are your sentences a subtext for a scenario or path with a less favourable outcome.

antspants

2,401 posts

174 months

Friday 10th August 2012
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Have you admitted to your OH that you know something is wrong with you, or do you just get into conversations about your moods or arguments, and end up getting defensive?

I ask as I've been going through the same recently, to the point where my wife became very frustrated with my moods, I'd started to become very angry with little provocation, and was very defensive when any of this was pointed out.

The turning point came around the time I posted on here a month or so ago, where I literally broke down to her and said I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me, but I knew it was all me.

She has been much more patient since as she can see I'm trying to do something about it, such as exercise, we've just taken a holiday, I've told my boss I'm taking on too much work and responsibility and need help etc.

I don't claim that we're going through the same, I think I'm just suffering from stress tbh, but all of the advice I've had has told me to talk to somebody about it, so I'd urge you to do the same if you haven't already.

Your OH sounded like she was very sympathetic and understanding in your OP, you need to make sure you don't push her away wink


cra1gy1989

293 posts

143 months

Friday 10th August 2012
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Hi, my mum has had serious depression twice now due to a bad childhood and ended up in the priory in quite a mess... one thing she was adement about was not talking to anyone about it because she felt embarrassed about what had happened in the past even though it wasn't her fault. I didn't find out about anything till last year and I am now 23, she was good at hiding her problems, so everyone around would think she was fine! But then ending up in the priory, my dad told me the situation, which my mum found out, so she told me her side of the story, and eventually she came out ok, now she has decided whenever she feels low, don't hold it in and let it build up, talk to someone it makes a world of a difference, go to the gp, she now takes anti-depressants and sleeping tablets and her world has changed.
talk to someone, tell them how you feel.

Good luck

wollowizard

15,137 posts

199 months

Friday 10th August 2012
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I was recomended this website http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome by my GP a few years back and I found it very helpful. It has since been updated and improved and it is free.

It is worth a try before drugs as it helps you understand some of your own thinking.

Ruskie

Original Poster:

3,982 posts

199 months

Friday 10th August 2012
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Drug therapy and counselling are both things I have little time for and I am quite cynical about probably related to my job. Looking back I have probably been suppressing things for years and now it's only just coming out. I feel like I need to write everything down and see what I am left with. I am very defensive but through my rose tinted glasses I'm not the problem and won't take the blame. I feel that the OH has reached the end and unless I go to the GP she's not interested.