My Son

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jimnicebutdim

Original Poster:

374 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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Evening guys. I'm looking to see if any of PHs numerous Dads have had a similar experience to mine, and what did they do.

A bit of background first. I have three kids with my ex-wife. Two daughters and a son. My son is the middle child with an older and younger sister. I'm on good terms with my ex, and she now has another baby with her new fella.
My son was diagnosed with Autistic Spectrum Disorder when he was 3. He's now 7, nearly 8. He was moved from mainstream education into a special needs school about 2 years ago.
Today, my ex phoned me to let me know that Michael (my son) had had a bad week so far at school. On Monday he had verbally abused his teacher, saying he was going to rape her (he doesn't know what rape is, and learnt the word from a modified Spongebob video some cretin had put on YouTube). Tuesday, he punched 4 of his classmates on the way out of school. Today, after a tantrum involving him not being allowed to draw pictures of Transformers he was put in the library to calm down. Whilst in there he destroyed a school project that was on the wall, damaging other kids work.
He knows right from wrong, and immediately felt guilty after doing these things (he left the library to find a teacher and apologise for the damage today). When questioned by the staff, his only explanation is that "his brain told him to do it". The only thing I can get from that is that he doesn't know why he flys into these uncontrollable rages, and loses self-control when they happen.
The school want us to approach his GP about increasing his Ritalin dosage, but I want a son not a drugged up zombie. We have tried every approach to calm these outbursts, and although his temper frays at home he removes himself from a situation before it becomes unmanageable. At school he does not, instead lashing out. He's had every possible punishment for his violence, he's had rewards, sticker charts, long talks, structures and routines. All to no avail.
I'm fking petrified that my little boy will never develop into a man. I'm st scared that when he's 15, these outbursts are going to land him in jail. I feel useless, and like I've let him down. What sort of a father would I be, when my son, my boy, cannot have a job, a car, a wife, kids, or any of the things we take for granted in life. My little boy is a handsome, loving, affectionate little computer genius. Unfortunately, he has as much understanding about emotion and empathy as I have about quantum physics. Is he always going to be like that?
Now, I know that accusations are going to start flying about bad parents, made-up disorders, and excuses for poor behaviour; so let me put this into context. My eldest daughter is part of her schools Gifted and Talented program for Science, Math, Literacy, Geography, Music and RE. Prior to the kids moving, she sang in the local church choir, and was an orange belt in karate. My youngest daughter is ahead of the rest of the class in Reading and Writing. She has just started dancing lessons, and hopes to follow her Dad into the ambulance service when she grows up.

I hope to god someone has some advice, because I'm stuck listening to well meaning, but naive advice from friends who have no idea. Anyway, thanks in advance
Jim

Edited by jimnicebutdim on Thursday 26th April 09:17

Agrispeed

988 posts

158 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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I know nearly nothing about this, but I would say that maybe he's at the age where generally kids are less stable... well, from those who I've seen. Also, has anything changed at home or something recently? because it sounds like maybe theirs some stress involved or something, even if he doesn't know it.

A very difficult and heartbreaking situation indeed, and one I don't think anyone would want to be in.

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

197 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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Just asked my OH who is sat next to me and a consultant clin-psychologist. Her first response was to ask whether something has happened to him. Even within the autism spectrum sudden changes of behaviour are atypical and often caused by an external influence - is he being bullied / unhappy about something?

She said don't panic, go and see your GP ASAP and get referred to a child clin-psyc who can help the family get to the root of it. It may be behavioural or it may need meds changing (her opinion for one outburst this is heavy handed), but at least you'll get an objective opinion.

HTH helps.

As someone not in the field, you have my sympathies, must be very hard.

DWS

657 posts

217 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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Jeez mate you have a lot on your hands. I feel for you. I don't have any answers I'm afraid. but good luck. The only thing I can sugest is that there is a school in my town who deal with Autistic kids. PM me if you want any info, though I am about 300 miles from you.
Dick

Carthage

4,261 posts

143 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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Disclaimer - I have no children so may be talking crap. biggrin

A good friend of mine has an autistic child, who worried her as much as your son worries you. My friend spent time with her, teaching her about empathy, teaching he to understand other people.
If there had been an 'incident' at school, for example, my friend would have to sit down and laboriously go through 'and who did that affect?', 'and how do you think they felt?' and 'why do you think they did that/said that?' until the child learned to understand people (in the same way that you might learn quantum physics biggrin).
I can report that it worked - the child is now at university, has a wide circle of friends (and in fact the child's perceived 'quirkiness' seems to be part of the attractant to others) is functioning extremely well, and getting phenomally high marks.
I just wanted to tell you that there are positive outcomes. biggrin
Good luck with your son.

Siko

1,976 posts

241 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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Good luck mate, you sound like you love your son and I guess that's all that matters. Having kids is the single hardest experience of my life this far and mine are relatively little trouble, it must be very tough for you guys as parents. I hope it all works out for you all :-)


R300will

3,799 posts

150 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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The problem with these autistic spectrum type disorders is that it leaves the sufferer very sensitive to social situations. Maybe someone in the class is winding him up? (perhaps without even realising it, you know how banter is at school etc.)

schmalex

13,616 posts

205 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
My lad is 8. A couple of years ago, he started flying into rages about things & got into a trouble with his teacher. My wife & I met with the head of the lower school to discuss it with her, as apart from his temper, he wasa delight. After talking around the subject for an hour or so, we agreed a couple of key initiatives, namely:

1: School would increase his lunchtime food portion (he is considerably taller than his contemporaries)
2: we gave him a tress ball that, whenever he felt his temper coming, he would squeeze as hard as possible and count to 10

Within 2 weeks, he was totally transformed and was able to control his temper very easily. Since putting these interventions in place, he hasn't had a single outburst.

Fortunately, he isn't medicated for anything, but if he were, I, like you, would be very reluctant to increase dosages.

Lotus Notes

1,197 posts

190 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
jimnicebutdim said:
He knows right from wrong, and immediately felt guilty after doing these things (he left the library to find a teacher and apologise for the damage today). When questioned by the staff, his only explanation is that "his brain told him to do it". The only thing I can get from that is that he doesn't know why he flys into these uncontrollable rages, and loses self-control when they happen.
From what you say here, all is not lost. So he's had a bad week at school? There must be times when he is an absolute treasure? On a lighter note, I know some relatively 'normal kids' who create more havoc.

If not already, get in contact with a local support group. Sharing experiences can help manage some of the issues and feelings (his and yours)..

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

197 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
schmalex said:
My lad is 8. A couple of years ago, he started flying into rages about things & got into a trouble with his teacher. My wife & I met with the head of the lower school to discuss it with her, as apart from his temper, he wasa delight. After talking around the subject for an hour or so, we agreed a couple of key initiatives, namely:

1: School would increase his lunchtime food portion (he is considerably taller than his contemporaries)
2: we gave him a tress ball that, whenever he felt his temper coming, he would squeeze as hard as possible and count to 10

Within 2 weeks, he was totally transformed and was able to control his temper very easily. Since putting these interventions in place, he hasn't had a single outburst.

Fortunately, he isn't medicated for anything, but if he were, I, like you, would be very reluctant to increase dosages.
That's a good point actually as one question I would ask - from a physiological point of view - is whether the lad is drinking enough fluids throughout the day. Dehydration does increase irritability.

Odie

4,187 posts

181 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
Sounds like pretty normal behavior for an 8yo boy to me. At that age where they push boundaries and stuff.

I have an ASD and get overloads, I find that music helps, headphones in and head down at work.

Is it possible that he overloaded and didn't know how to deal with it?


ETA - Look into getting him off the Ritalin, ASD is neurological.

Edited by Odie on Wednesday 25th April 23:08

Mx5guy

22,079 posts

200 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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I guess this is a more general point than this situation perhaps, and I understand the wanting to avoid a lot of drugs, but if they are they right ones it can be a good thing. People seem to think it's fine to have a wheelchair or crutchs if you need them, but not drugs. If the body is not producing the right kind or balance then it is just as much a problem as a physical illness, so it doesn't mean they are bad.

But if it's a short term thing then try other stuff first, and it's great to have some suggestions from others previously.

jimnicebutdim

Original Poster:

374 posts

154 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice so far guys.
The Ritalin is for ADHD not Autism, but I'm loathe to even think about increasing the dosage.
The advice about clinical psychologists is good. Thanks.

You can always rely on the kindness of strangers lol smile

ShawCrossShark

4,264 posts

233 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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Nothing I can add but best wishes I'm afraid.

Out of interest, people have mentioned outside circumstances. How old is the new baby that your ex has? Just wondering if attention at home could be a factor

I fully understand your misgivings about drugs and, as a parent, empathise and hope that things improve

jimnicebutdim

Original Poster:

374 posts

154 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
ShawCrossShark said:
Nothing I can add but best wishes I'm afraid.

Out of interest, people have mentioned outside circumstances. How old is the new baby that your ex has? Just wondering if attention at home could be a factor

I fully understand your misgivings about drugs and, as a parent, empathise and hope that things improve
The new baby is now 8mths old, so I don't think she is much of an influence. However, he has fallen out with his best (and only) friend. They used to be close, but the other lad has taken to picking on him. The thing is, these rages have always happened, just never to the extent or severity of these recent outbursts. It was his original rages that prompted his mainstream school to recommend his removal to a special needs school.

wolf1

3,081 posts

249 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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OP I'm in a similar situation to yourself as my son is autistic. He is still in mainstream schooling as I constantly pushed for him to stay in it and also never liked the idea of drugs to help etc. We have had problems initially with the school painting a rosy picture about everything and then only when something more serious happened did they finally admit there have been problems with him in the past. The good that has come out of this is that his latest teacher has experience of autistic kids so is better at dealing/understanding him.

The flare ups or rages are frustration not anger (sorry not trying to teach you how to suck eggs etc) which manifests itself within a very short space of time if a routine is broken, a task he was focused on doing gets postponed, denied or interrupted, or a constant annoyance gets the better of him. My son gave the same responce about his head telling him to do it or sometimes he calls them his black moments. He knows what's right and wrong but in those moments the frustration gets the better of him. We have tried to teach him that when he thinks or feels that it's about to happen to either remove himself from that situation or close his eyes and think about something he likes (he doesn't like the count to ten etc method). It's not been all plain sailing as we had an incident with bullying from another child (plus the gaggle of hangers on that bullies tend to have) which although my son is strong enough to (mentally) ignore on a day to day basis, it was the fact that it was relentless name calling and physicall bullying etc that finally flipped his switch to the point that he chinned the bully during a lesson. Now the upshot is that the bullying has ceased and this was also the catalyst that finally made us aware that the school were painting a picture of things that were a tad too rose tinted. We now get the facts, warts an all which means we can deal with problems as they arrise.

From as soon as my son could understand/comprehend general facts etc we have made him aware that he is autistic, however it is not and will not ever be an excuse for any bad behaviour, and he will be punished if he is out of order etc. Some were shocked with that decision but it has worked for us as it has allowed us to help explain to him why he has some problems with social interaction or why he sees the world differently to most others. We explained to him that everyone on the planet has a problem be it big ears or some other thing so he is no different than anyone else as they all have their own cross to bear.

Structure and routine tend to be the byword for autistics but we have also broken with that on occasion purely to get him used to how to behave when something he thinks he's about to do or is in the middle of are interrupted/postponed.

He's 11 now and we are about to embark on the next roller coaster of puberty and the lovable mood swings etc associated with that.

Good luck OP there are no hard and fast rules but he'll turn out ok, he just needs to be shown things that the rest take for granted but in the end he'll make you proud.

wolf1

3,081 posts

249 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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jimnicebutdim said:
However, he has fallen out with his best (and only) friend. They used to be close, but the other lad has taken to picking on him.
Don't panic this happens with all kids as they grow up. Eldest son has had the same thing so we knew it wasn't because of the younger ones autism.

jimnicebutdim

Original Poster:

374 posts

154 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
Thanks very much Wolf.
I understood why he flared up to such extremes, and when he's at home we can deal with it easily by either restoring the routine or removing him from the source. At school it's a whole different matter though. I'm at a complete loss at how to educate the school about him.
It's good to hear that I'm not the only one on here who has experienced this. Thanks very much mate

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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I`ve nothing to add except a show of support. My lad is severely autistic and displays very similar behaviour and aggression. I`ve a thread running on here but if you haven`t seen it beware, it ain`t good.

Good luck OP.

ApexJimi

24,860 posts

242 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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You can say you like about PH, but such is the broad spectrum of members, it really does come into it's own in threads like these.

I don't have any children, and much less have any experience of autism etc, so all I can offer are my sympathies and my opinion that your parenting ability, from what I can see, is absolutely not in question.

Best wishes smile