Discussion
Halb said:
In the same vein as, Ask Elliot!
Do you still bulk and cut, Pvapour?
Also, by having to type you name, I actually had to look at it properly, instead of hearing pour-va-vour in my head all this time, I now hear pee-vapour.
I'd always thought of it as pouring PVA glue! PVA-Pour.Do you still bulk and cut, Pvapour?
Also, by having to type you name, I actually had to look at it properly, instead of hearing pour-va-vour in my head all this time, I now hear pee-vapour.
I've sat around 15-16% for the last 25 odd years tbh Halb, before those years i dropped a few times to 10% for comps (was never ripped, more the arnie look)
The last 12 months though ive stuck at 12% since i dropped the fat for an obstacle course race last year.
I dont personaly think you need to bulk up to gain muscle mass itself but i do think bulking helps prevent injury while pushing weight limits to gain muscle, i know when i lean out i'm far more prone to injuries.
It is PeeVapour in my head as it was meant to be PetrolVapour, like the iterpratations more though
I used 5:2 fasting to drop fat btw or more accurately 3:1 - 2:1 = 7 days. (3000k deficit on fast days = 1lb fat, but still try for 100g of protein)
The last 12 months though ive stuck at 12% since i dropped the fat for an obstacle course race last year.
I dont personaly think you need to bulk up to gain muscle mass itself but i do think bulking helps prevent injury while pushing weight limits to gain muscle, i know when i lean out i'm far more prone to injuries.
It is PeeVapour in my head as it was meant to be PetrolVapour, like the iterpratations more though
I used 5:2 fasting to drop fat btw or more accurately 3:1 - 2:1 = 7 days. (3000k deficit on fast days = 1lb fat, but still try for 100g of protein)
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 7th January 21:57
Just a question about time and intensity if I wanted to build a bit of muscle
For example, take chest exercises. I really want to grow a little and really get some definition, so aside from dieting what should my gym routine be in terms of number of sets/reps and how long to train for?
I currently seem to restrict myself to 4 sets (10-12 reps) of bench press, some dumbbell press (incline) for 2/3 sets and 3 sets cable crossovers. Is there a benefit from more sets and doing more exercises, as I'm done inside 40 minutes and I've realised I've become a creature of habit.
I haven't lifted more than 70kg on bench or done higher than 30kg dumbells on the incline press, seemed to plateau for while now, so I think I need to really increase the intensity/weight and work on more exercises.
Appreciate any thoughts.
For example, take chest exercises. I really want to grow a little and really get some definition, so aside from dieting what should my gym routine be in terms of number of sets/reps and how long to train for?
I currently seem to restrict myself to 4 sets (10-12 reps) of bench press, some dumbbell press (incline) for 2/3 sets and 3 sets cable crossovers. Is there a benefit from more sets and doing more exercises, as I'm done inside 40 minutes and I've realised I've become a creature of habit.
I haven't lifted more than 70kg on bench or done higher than 30kg dumbells on the incline press, seemed to plateau for while now, so I think I need to really increase the intensity/weight and work on more exercises.
Appreciate any thoughts.
I was going to ask this on the Training thread, (might still do so), but Vape (new name, sorry ) knows his stuff.
Is the Bench Press a superior chest exercise, over say, dumbbell equivalents?
You may recall you advised me on upper chest work, so as not to antagonise rotators, for which I am grateful, and seems to be working well for me.
I'm starting to have a think about adding in light bench press, and see how my shoulders cope, but was wondering whether I may as well just stick to my dumbbell and cable work?
Also I may add in more press ups, possibly at the expense of bench press?
I'm into aesthetics, and definitely don't want to get too big, otherwise from experience, I turn in to a weeble-wobble!
) knows his stuff. Is the Bench Press a superior chest exercise, over say, dumbbell equivalents?
You may recall you advised me on upper chest work, so as not to antagonise rotators, for which I am grateful, and seems to be working well for me.
I'm starting to have a think about adding in light bench press, and see how my shoulders cope, but was wondering whether I may as well just stick to my dumbbell and cable work?
Also I may add in more press ups, possibly at the expense of bench press?
I'm into aesthetics, and definitely don't want to get too big, otherwise from experience, I turn in to a weeble-wobble!
Digger said:
I was going to ask this on the Training thread, (might still do so), but Vape (new name, sorry ) knows his stuff.
Is the Bench Press a superior chest exercise, over say, dumbbell equivalents?
You may recall you advised me on upper chest work, so as not to antagonise rotators, for which I am grateful, and seems to be working well for me.
I'm starting to have a think about adding in light bench press, and see how my shoulders cope, but was wondering whether I may as well just stick to my dumbbell and cable work?
Also I may add in more press ups, possibly at the expense of bench press?
I'm into aesthetics, and definitely don't want to get too big, otherwise from experience, I turn in to a weeble-wobble!
I think it depends how you bench, elbows flaired out or tucked. Regardless, I prefer dumbbells for pec development, though possibly bench for strength gains. ) knows his stuff. Is the Bench Press a superior chest exercise, over say, dumbbell equivalents?
You may recall you advised me on upper chest work, so as not to antagonise rotators, for which I am grateful, and seems to be working well for me.
I'm starting to have a think about adding in light bench press, and see how my shoulders cope, but was wondering whether I may as well just stick to my dumbbell and cable work?
Also I may add in more press ups, possibly at the expense of bench press?
I'm into aesthetics, and definitely don't want to get too big, otherwise from experience, I turn in to a weeble-wobble!
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Just a question about time and intensity if I wanted to build a bit of muscle
For example, take chest exercises
I currently seem to restrict myself to 4 sets (10-12 reps) of bench press, some dumbbell press (incline) for 2/3 sets and 3 sets cable crossovers. Is there a benefit from more sets and doing more exercises, as I'm done inside 40 minutes and I've realised I've become a creature of habit.
I haven't lifted more than 70kg on bench or done higher than 30kg dumbells on the incline press, seemed to plateau for while now, so I think I need to really increase the intensity/weight and work on more exercises.
Appreciate any thoughts.
Chest (or any muscle group) development will respond to more volume full stop, that volume can consist of an increase in any one or all of the following: reps, weight, sets or reduced rest periods (the latter only if cv is beyond muscle capability)For example, take chest exercises
I currently seem to restrict myself to 4 sets (10-12 reps) of bench press, some dumbbell press (incline) for 2/3 sets and 3 sets cable crossovers. Is there a benefit from more sets and doing more exercises, as I'm done inside 40 minutes and I've realised I've become a creature of habit.
I haven't lifted more than 70kg on bench or done higher than 30kg dumbells on the incline press, seemed to plateau for while now, so I think I need to really increase the intensity/weight and work on more exercises.
Appreciate any thoughts.
I beleive that the people who have the ability to create a habits easily are in fact the ones who can go at training long and hard for a life time, I have spoken to many age 60+ trainers who've been doing it all their lives (always been my fascination) and without exception they all had a habit forming personality so in no way think of this trait as negative, quite the contrary!
Having said that, this trait also leads to long length of times at plateau as we tend to be more content with ticking along without gains, great when youve made the gains and want to maintain but not so good at the begining when you looking to make growth gains.
Using some goals is a good idea, difficult if (from your description) yours is a visual thing, best thing to do is look at the weight numbers you're pushing for chest and set a quarterly realistic goal, you seem fixated on your chest so that shouldnt be too hard to achieve, why chest predominantly? Are you unbalanced in this area?. No probs if thats the case, balancing up your physique before pushing on isnt a bad idea but other body parts should be trained to so as not to get support injury issues.
But to answer directly your chest gain want:
Sets are fine but change your lower some of your reps for a formation like this - (work up to 16 sets over the quarterly goal period) pyramid (old terminology) the reps for each exercise, so 1st excercise 20,16, 12, 8, 4. 2nd 10, 8, 6, 8. 3rd (normaly a more isolated excercise) 12, 16, 20 , 20.
In terms of barbell v dumbell, you need both tbh, best to alternate these as your first excercise for each gym session over the quarter; incline or flat barbell (wide grip and shoulder width grip another variation but elbow flare kept in check like DD says) dumbell flyes and press, incline, flat and decline (dont go to low with flyes just enough to stretch pecs) weighted dips,
If you can achieve a 10% weight increase over a quarter (possible at start) you're going well, if you can drop fat at the same time then you'll definitely notice the difference for spring
Digger said:
I was going to ask this on the Training thread, (might still do so), but Vape (new name, sorry ) knows his stuff.
Is the Bench Press a superior chest exercise, over say, dumbbell equivalents?
You may recall you advised me on upper chest work, so as not to antagonise rotators, for which I am grateful, and seems to be working well for me.
I'm starting to have a think about adding in light bench press, and see how my shoulders cope, but was wondering whether I may as well just stick to my dumbbell and cable work?
Also I may add in more press ups, possibly at the expense of bench press?
I'm into aesthetics, and definitely don't want to get too big, otherwise from experience, I turn in to a weeble-wobble!
If it's working digger then keep going till I you feel boredom or plateau coming, some great physiques have been built with no benching ever having been done, some excercises even if performed perfectly give no results to some and can injure constantly (squats for me,) I love and always have had, flyes and yet they're are somewhat frowned on these days, they give a lovely sweep to the pec muscle in my mind (just don't b tempted to go to low) ) knows his stuff. Is the Bench Press a superior chest exercise, over say, dumbbell equivalents?
You may recall you advised me on upper chest work, so as not to antagonise rotators, for which I am grateful, and seems to be working well for me.
I'm starting to have a think about adding in light bench press, and see how my shoulders cope, but was wondering whether I may as well just stick to my dumbbell and cable work?
Also I may add in more press ups, possibly at the expense of bench press?
I'm into aesthetics, and definitely don't want to get too big, otherwise from experience, I turn in to a weeble-wobble!
Nice to hear you got a benefit
Pvapour - Would you post a picture of yourself so we can see what is possible without artificial enhancement?
I was heavily into bodybuilding/powerlifting in my late teens/early twenties but unfortunately, injuries meant I never got where I wanted and I just try and maintain a healthy shape and lifestyle now - though I haven't had an injury for years which is my main objective.
With hindsight I am glad I had the injuries to stop me taking it further but it was difficult at the time and I still admire the dedication and results others achieve.
It would be interesting to see how far it can be taken naturally.
I was heavily into bodybuilding/powerlifting in my late teens/early twenties but unfortunately, injuries meant I never got where I wanted and I just try and maintain a healthy shape and lifestyle now - though I haven't had an injury for years which is my main objective.
With hindsight I am glad I had the injuries to stop me taking it further but it was difficult at the time and I still admire the dedication and results others achieve.
It would be interesting to see how far it can be taken naturally.
Pvapour said:
Jefferson Steelflex said:
A ramble
Interesting and valuable stuffAppreciate the input, I'll increase the sets and try and get more weight across al exercises. Just coming back from a dislocated shoulder so taking it easy on the overhead stuff but I'm almost back to full strength.
Tbh i'm uncomfortable displaying my physique on forums as I do what I do only to please myself (and my wife 
)
I did record some stuff on instagram when I dropped to 11-12% about 6 months ago as wanted to record the milestone in my life, I've not changed since, those pics are public (I think)
A great natural bodybuilder though is tom venuto who is the author of 'feed the muscle' brilliant read of all you'll ever need to know around nutrition http://instagram.com/tomvenuto
I honestly don't believe you can achieve beyond a certain size naturally as the body is clever enough to know what is 'not' healthy for it and will therefore halt any further progress. Some of the ways the human body react in an attempt at self preservation is simply amazing!
)I did record some stuff on instagram when I dropped to 11-12% about 6 months ago as wanted to record the milestone in my life, I've not changed since, those pics are public (I think)
A great natural bodybuilder though is tom venuto who is the author of 'feed the muscle' brilliant read of all you'll ever need to know around nutrition http://instagram.com/tomvenuto
I honestly don't believe you can achieve beyond a certain size naturally as the body is clever enough to know what is 'not' healthy for it and will therefore halt any further progress. Some of the ways the human body react in an attempt at self preservation is simply amazing!
Pvapour said:
Tbh i'm uncomfortable displaying my physique on forums as I do what I do only to please myself (and my wife )
I did record some stuff on instagram when I dropped to 11-12% about 6 months ago as wanted to record the milestone in my life, I've not changed since, those pics are public (I think)
A great natural bodybuilder though is tom venuto who is the author of 'feed the muscle' brilliant read of all you'll ever need to know around nutrition http://instagram.com/tomvenuto
I honestly don't believe you can achieve beyond a certain size naturally as the body is clever enough to know what is 'not' healthy for it and will therefore halt any further progress. Some of the ways the human body react in an attempt at self preservation is simply amazing!
No worries.)I did record some stuff on instagram when I dropped to 11-12% about 6 months ago as wanted to record the milestone in my life, I've not changed since, those pics are public (I think)
A great natural bodybuilder though is tom venuto who is the author of 'feed the muscle' brilliant read of all you'll ever need to know around nutrition http://instagram.com/tomvenuto
I honestly don't believe you can achieve beyond a certain size naturally as the body is clever enough to know what is 'not' healthy for it and will therefore halt any further progress. Some of the ways the human body react in an attempt at self preservation is simply amazing!
I checked out Tom Venuto (I had ever heard of him before so thanks) and he looks so much better than a lot of the steroid enhanced monsters which I used to aspire to (I didn't realize they were at this stage). It just shows how good Steve Reeves and John Grimek were all those years ago.
Steve Reeves to me now is the perfect physique and if I could start over again that is what I would have strived for rather than the modern day pharmacists but alas, I was young and naive.
InductionRoar said:
Steve Reeves to me now is the perfect physique and if I could start over again that is what I would have strived for...
It's the perfect physiqque if you're a bodybuilder.But you like your clothes and shoes, don't you. Having a bodybuider's physique and dressing nicely are at odds with each other. One tends to look like a doorman on a night off.
13m said:
InductionRoar said:
Steve Reeves to me now is the perfect physique and if I could start over again that is what I would have strived for...
It's the perfect physiqque if you're a bodybuilder.But you like your clothes and shoes, don't you. Having a bodybuider's physique and dressing nicely are at odds with each other. One tends to look like a doorman on a night off.
Of recent times Tom Hardy and Jason Statham have achieved this balance better than most in my opinion (it doesn't hurt that they are both rather handsome chaps either) and their sort of physique is a lot more healthy and attainable to the natural gym goer.
InductionRoar said:
Pvapour said:
Tbh i'm uncomfortable displaying my physique on forums as I do what I do only to please myself (and my wife )
I did record some stuff on instagram when I dropped to 11-12% about 6 months ago as wanted to record the milestone in my life, I've not changed since, those pics are public (I think)
A great natural bodybuilder though is tom venuto who is the author of 'feed the muscle' brilliant read of all you'll ever need to know around nutrition http://instagram.com/tomvenuto
I honestly don't believe you can achieve beyond a certain size naturally as the body is clever enough to know what is 'not' healthy for it and will therefore halt any further progress. Some of the ways the human body react in an attempt at self preservation is simply amazing!
No worries.)I did record some stuff on instagram when I dropped to 11-12% about 6 months ago as wanted to record the milestone in my life, I've not changed since, those pics are public (I think)
A great natural bodybuilder though is tom venuto who is the author of 'feed the muscle' brilliant read of all you'll ever need to know around nutrition http://instagram.com/tomvenuto
I honestly don't believe you can achieve beyond a certain size naturally as the body is clever enough to know what is 'not' healthy for it and will therefore halt any further progress. Some of the ways the human body react in an attempt at self preservation is simply amazing!
I checked out Tom Venuto (I had ever heard of him before so thanks) and he looks so much better than a lot of the steroid enhanced monsters which I used to aspire to (I didn't realize they were at this stage). It just shows how good Steve Reeves and John Grimek were all those years ago.
Steve Reeves to me now is the perfect physique and if I could start over again that is what I would have strived for rather than the modern day pharmacists but alas, I was young and naive.
He does know what he's doing and is a top chap to boot!
InductionRoar said:
13m said:
InductionRoar said:
Steve Reeves to me now is the perfect physique and if I could start over again that is what I would have strived for...
It's the perfect physiqque if you're a bodybuilder.But you like your clothes and shoes, don't you. Having a bodybuider's physique and dressing nicely are at odds with each other. One tends to look like a doorman on a night off.
Of recent times Tom Hardy and Jason Statham have achieved this balance better than most in my opinion (it doesn't hurt that they are both rather handsome chaps either) and their sort of physique is a lot more healthy and attainable to the natural gym goer.
You look different but not cumbersome, you move freer at lower BF to, my measurement dont change much when at 16% & yet i feel far more restricted in clothes and move about more like a 'doorman' if you know what i mean
Wolverine and the like are very different, most of what you see and admire in films and photos is very good lighting and photography, you'd be very surprised how normal they look in person size wise and condition, fit, but nothing you'd take a 2nd look at and say bloody hell, he works out.
Jay cutler and the like are a completely different thing, they look soooo uncomfortable and inhuman, jaw dropping, i remember meeting a guy called celwyn cotteral back in the late 80s as he was guest posing at a comp i was entered, i decided that day that i never wanted to look like that, people were scared when he stood close, it was ridiculous!
Ronnie coleman made Jay Cutler look like a little boy! Dont think they'll ever be another freak of nature like that, absurd.
Edited by Pvapour on Sunday 8th January 19:17
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