Keto diet - anyone else?
Discussion
didelydoo said:
I’ve never once said you’re doing it wrong, just pointing out that your way isn’t the magic bullet you make it out to be, and it works like all the other diets do. It works, as do other ways. Some ways suit better than others depending on the person.
And if Keto doesn’t need will power, then why is it that long term adherence is incredibly low? All diets need will power, that’s how you get results
I think the differentiator for keto is, it's viable as a long-term/lifestyle choice. And if Keto doesn’t need will power, then why is it that long term adherence is incredibly low? All diets need will power, that’s how you get results
Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
LordGrover said:
I think the differentiator for keto is, it's viable as a long-term/lifestyle choice.
Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
Indeed! No doubt it can be sustained, this thread shows that. But it does appear that most treat it as a quick fix, and not a lifestyle diet. So many people will tell you they tried Keto, and it worked well- but it’s rare that they’ll stay with it- it’s the nature of of things where variety is limited.Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
One of the trends in the long term low carb diet studies was that the participants did not adhere very well, particularly after 6 months to a year.
didelydoo said:
LordGrover said:
I think the differentiator for keto is, it's viable as a long-term/lifestyle choice.
Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
Indeed! No doubt it can be sustained, this thread shows that. But it does appear that most treat it as a quick fix, and not a lifestyle diet. So many people will tell you they tried Keto, and it worked well- but it’s rare that they’ll stay with it- it’s the nature of of things where variety is limited.Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
One of the trends in the long term low carb diet studies was that the participants did not adhere very well, particularly after 6 months to a year.
It's quite possible, and in fact beneficial in my opinion, to revert to a diet including some carbs.
Louis Balfour said:
didelydoo said:
LordGrover said:
I think the differentiator for keto is, it's viable as a long-term/lifestyle choice.
Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
Indeed! No doubt it can be sustained, this thread shows that. But it does appear that most treat it as a quick fix, and not a lifestyle diet. So many people will tell you they tried Keto, and it worked well- but it’s rare that they’ll stay with it- it’s the nature of of things where variety is limited.Most 'diets' are temporary and not sustainable long-term, but for those who are happy to maintain it can do so for life.
One of the trends in the long term low carb diet studies was that the participants did not adhere very well, particularly after 6 months to a year.
It's quite possible, and in fact beneficial in my opinion, to revert to a diet including some carbs.
some bloke said:
I have noticed whenever you see the keto diet on diet shows read read about the latest 'zelebrity' trying it, is that they tend to write it off and not stick to it. I think it's a way of eating you have to discover yourself, read about it and do your own research rather seeing it as the latest fad.
You only have to look at how the advocates of it sell it to see how it has become a fad diet. They sell it as some magic diet. It is also common to lean into this idea that the reason someone is fat is not because they shoveled massive amounts of junk food into their bodies but because they were just misinformed that cake and crisps were healthy. didelydoo said:
I’ve never once said you’re doing it wrong, just pointing out that your way isn’t the magic bullet you make it out to be, and it works like all the other diets do. It works, as do other ways. Some ways suit better than others depending on the person.
And if Keto doesn’t need will power, then why is it that long term adherence is incredibly low? All diets need will power, that’s how you get results
I think a lot of people view "a diet" as a short term thing you "go on". They intend to go back to their old diet, and when they do they get the same old results. That isn't really a failure of the diet. And if Keto doesn’t need will power, then why is it that long term adherence is incredibly low? All diets need will power, that’s how you get results
I mean you don't need the willpower to not eat on keto because often you are not hungry. I usually advise new starts to remember to eat.
Thanks for the links, by the way. I am still open on the theory. My own experience was exactly as predicted, which was quite convincing.
didelydoo said:
DaveGrohl said:
Anyway, we'll agree to differ, makes no difference to me. I would however love to see any references you can post to show that the insulin model of obesity has been debunked (although I'm not quite sure what you mean by the insulin model of obesity other than its crucial role in partitioning blood components).
The insulin model of obesity dictates that insulin, and not excess calories/energy causes obesity.However, trails all show, that when protein is equalised, Keto results in no more fat loss than higher carb diets. Which would not be possible according to the insulin model.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut....
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC55680...
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33479499/
And a round up that saves me quoting a bunch more:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKjkS8dhvJU/?igshid=15...
A little further reading into some of them, and there’s also an explanation of how it was determined subjects were ‘Keto adapted’ so that can also be ruled out as an explanation.
Insulin does play a roll in fat storage off course, that’s not disputed - but it won’t make you gain weight in a calorific deficit. Energy balance trumps that.
I’m neutral when it comes to nutrition- different things work for different people, Keto works great for some, because it puts them in a deficit and they stick to in. Adherence is the #1 reason people fail on their diet, and very very few stick to keto after they’ve lost weight- they go back to normal, eat more, and then think Keto is a magic bullet. Anyway, I like to base what I say on things that have been repeatedly tested in a scientifically valid way.
I hope that’s of use, there’s a lot of reading, but I’m a nerd when it comes to this type of thing
Just FYI my interest in this thread is more to do with health in general wrt to CHD, obesity, diabetes, etc rather than a desire to lose weight on my part. Hence my eating a lower carb higher fat diet than I used to. I've been doing this for over a year now and can honestly say I've never been hungry in over a year, for the first time in my life. I've lost a few pounds without even trying. Also my wife has been trying to lose weight for nearly five years, tried various different diets without much success, flogging herself with gym and running, to no great end. She went keto a few months ago (in spite of me saying just reduce carbs a bit rather than go keto) and she's lost a stone and a half whilst doing a lot less exercise. We aren't a randomised control study granted, but sheesh it's been a doddle for us.
DaveGrohl said:
Thank you for actually posting some links to back up what you're saying didelydoo. I'm not quite sure we're posting about the same thing as each other though to start with. I am not ignoring your response btw, I'm actually having a look at your links as I would like to understand why you have said what you have said. There's quite a lot of reading there so it'll take me a while. I already have quite a few questions about the first three links I've looked at (not the order you placed them in though). Anyway I'll keep looking at them when I get a bit more time and might pm you rather than discussing on here if that's ok? I see where you're coming from which is why you maybe didn't appreciate what I posted, but again I don't think we're arguing about the same thing.
Just FYI my interest in this thread is more to do with health in general wrt to CHD, obesity, diabetes, etc rather than a desire to lose weight on my part. Hence my eating a lower carb higher fat diet than I used to. I've been doing this for over a year now and can honestly say I've never been hungry in over a year, for the first time in my life. I've lost a few pounds without even trying. Also my wife has been trying to lose weight for nearly five years, tried various different diets without much success, flogging herself with gym and running, to no great end. She went keto a few months ago (in spite of me saying just reduce carbs a bit rather than go keto) and she's lost a stone and a half whilst doing a lot less exercise. We aren't a randomised control study granted, but sheesh it's been a doddle for us.
No problem if you’d like to DM if anything comes up! I’m by no means an expert, but I try to get as much info as I can! Just FYI my interest in this thread is more to do with health in general wrt to CHD, obesity, diabetes, etc rather than a desire to lose weight on my part. Hence my eating a lower carb higher fat diet than I used to. I've been doing this for over a year now and can honestly say I've never been hungry in over a year, for the first time in my life. I've lost a few pounds without even trying. Also my wife has been trying to lose weight for nearly five years, tried various different diets without much success, flogging herself with gym and running, to no great end. She went keto a few months ago (in spite of me saying just reduce carbs a bit rather than go keto) and she's lost a stone and a half whilst doing a lot less exercise. We aren't a randomised control study granted, but sheesh it's been a doddle for us.
Regarding Satiety - there was recently an interesting study on low carb vs higher carb, with fat loss coming out the same, but satiety was slightly better on the high carb (which surprised me)- https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/150/4...
Anyway- I don’t want to derail the thread, the people who enjoy Keto/low carb usually do great with it, particularly in relation to t2d - I do find the science fascinating though.
Hi all,
I'm half way through a challenge I set myself which is to go a month without (added) sugar, where possible. I think this might be similar to Keto (didn't know there was a label for it to be honest until I read a bit of this post).
Similar to the OP, I love sugar. Mainly chocolate, but also Mr Kiplings and sweets and I eat far too much of them. I also drink too much fizzy pop, mainly Coke. Its the diet variety, but its still too much fizz for what I know to be healthy. Typically, its at least two cans a day, usually three since working from home so much. The cycle of choc and coke relates to stress I think, in that, if I've got a big task to do or get started on, I'll grab a chocolate bar to get into it. That brings on a craving for Coke, which then brings on a craving for some more sugar. I could easily go through 2 bars of chocolate a day, creeping up to three, with other sugary snacks throughout the day too.
I'm a tall guy so don't look particularly overweight, but I definately have the dad-bod belly, and with a bad back which is very painful when it flares up I figured that lowering the mass that my muscles have to cart about must be helpful for this.
Then YouTube recommended a video for me to watch on what happens if you take sugar out of your diet. In amongst car videos and nerdy reviews of toys from the 80s, here was a health video sticking out like a sore thumb. So I watched it. I liked what I saw. It said that typically you lose weight, have more consistent energy balance, and less aches and pains.
I need some of that.
I'm exactly two weeks into my four week stint. The first few days I was motivated so didn't have too much trouble, the next few days were tougher but after that felt pretty good. I noticed my concentration has improved massively at work and I'm far less distracted generally when doing any sort of task (in and out of work). I've also dropped 7lbs in 2 weeks which I'm really happy with, and I'm now 3lbs away from my target weight which has been stubbonly out of reach for several years, having lost a total of 16lbs in the past year.
I don't know if this is 'keto' (and if it isn't my apologies), but whatever it is, I feel much better for doing it.
I'm lucky in that I'm ok with bland foods, having never been a particularly foodie person so the diet is mainly chicken, rice and veg, or salmon and veg, with different food when my wife cooks, but without sauces for me as I don't like them anyway. Breakfast is porridge and I'll have shredded wheat in an evening if I'm still hungry. A small glass of pure orange juice in a morning and dilute blackcurrent juice with lunch and dinner. Dinner is just two slices of bread with some sandwhich meat in the middle. Mixed nuts as snacks and thats pretty much it! It works for me, simple and easy and I've notice that I always feel full with what I eat - something that never really happened with the sugar fix constantly pecking at my head.
My long term goal is to try and get below my target weight in the next two weeks, which should fit in with around when the gyms re-open so I can get back to going there each day and keep the lbs off. My plan is to introduce chocolate only at the weekends as a small treat (like it should be probably, and fizzy drinks only when we have take aways or eating out in the future and hopefully the belly will keep reducing in size, with the gym boosting those Hulk Hogan muscles that I'm sure I must have well hidden somewhere (like a balloon, they just need a lot of inflating).
There is no science or overly complex research behind this, I'm just eating what I think looks and feels healthy and cutting out the stuff that doesn't.
Thanks for reading, I'll post again at the end of the 4 weeks if anyone is interested.
I'm half way through a challenge I set myself which is to go a month without (added) sugar, where possible. I think this might be similar to Keto (didn't know there was a label for it to be honest until I read a bit of this post).
Similar to the OP, I love sugar. Mainly chocolate, but also Mr Kiplings and sweets and I eat far too much of them. I also drink too much fizzy pop, mainly Coke. Its the diet variety, but its still too much fizz for what I know to be healthy. Typically, its at least two cans a day, usually three since working from home so much. The cycle of choc and coke relates to stress I think, in that, if I've got a big task to do or get started on, I'll grab a chocolate bar to get into it. That brings on a craving for Coke, which then brings on a craving for some more sugar. I could easily go through 2 bars of chocolate a day, creeping up to three, with other sugary snacks throughout the day too.
I'm a tall guy so don't look particularly overweight, but I definately have the dad-bod belly, and with a bad back which is very painful when it flares up I figured that lowering the mass that my muscles have to cart about must be helpful for this.
Then YouTube recommended a video for me to watch on what happens if you take sugar out of your diet. In amongst car videos and nerdy reviews of toys from the 80s, here was a health video sticking out like a sore thumb. So I watched it. I liked what I saw. It said that typically you lose weight, have more consistent energy balance, and less aches and pains.
I need some of that.
I'm exactly two weeks into my four week stint. The first few days I was motivated so didn't have too much trouble, the next few days were tougher but after that felt pretty good. I noticed my concentration has improved massively at work and I'm far less distracted generally when doing any sort of task (in and out of work). I've also dropped 7lbs in 2 weeks which I'm really happy with, and I'm now 3lbs away from my target weight which has been stubbonly out of reach for several years, having lost a total of 16lbs in the past year.
I don't know if this is 'keto' (and if it isn't my apologies), but whatever it is, I feel much better for doing it.
I'm lucky in that I'm ok with bland foods, having never been a particularly foodie person so the diet is mainly chicken, rice and veg, or salmon and veg, with different food when my wife cooks, but without sauces for me as I don't like them anyway. Breakfast is porridge and I'll have shredded wheat in an evening if I'm still hungry. A small glass of pure orange juice in a morning and dilute blackcurrent juice with lunch and dinner. Dinner is just two slices of bread with some sandwhich meat in the middle. Mixed nuts as snacks and thats pretty much it! It works for me, simple and easy and I've notice that I always feel full with what I eat - something that never really happened with the sugar fix constantly pecking at my head.
My long term goal is to try and get below my target weight in the next two weeks, which should fit in with around when the gyms re-open so I can get back to going there each day and keep the lbs off. My plan is to introduce chocolate only at the weekends as a small treat (like it should be probably, and fizzy drinks only when we have take aways or eating out in the future and hopefully the belly will keep reducing in size, with the gym boosting those Hulk Hogan muscles that I'm sure I must have well hidden somewhere (like a balloon, they just need a lot of inflating).
There is no science or overly complex research behind this, I'm just eating what I think looks and feels healthy and cutting out the stuff that doesn't.
Thanks for reading, I'll post again at the end of the 4 weeks if anyone is interested.
Edited by Cloudy147 on Thursday 1st April 11:43
Cloudy147 said:
...
I'm lucky in that I'm ok with bland foods, having never been a particularly foodie person so the diet is mainly chicken, rice and veg, or salmon and veg, with different food when my wife cooks, but without sauces for me as I don't like them anyway. Breakfast is porridge and I'll have shredded wheat in an evening if I'm still hungry. A small glass of pure orange juice in a morning and dilute blackcurrent juice with lunch and dinner. Dinner is just two slices of bread with some sandwhich meat in the middle. Mixed nuts as snacks and thats pretty much it! It works for me, simple and easy and I've notice that I always feel full with what I eat - something that never really happened with the sugar fix constantly pecking at my head.
...
Not sure why you mention bland foods - you can use any and every herb and spice you want.I'm lucky in that I'm ok with bland foods, having never been a particularly foodie person so the diet is mainly chicken, rice and veg, or salmon and veg, with different food when my wife cooks, but without sauces for me as I don't like them anyway. Breakfast is porridge and I'll have shredded wheat in an evening if I'm still hungry. A small glass of pure orange juice in a morning and dilute blackcurrent juice with lunch and dinner. Dinner is just two slices of bread with some sandwhich meat in the middle. Mixed nuts as snacks and thats pretty much it! It works for me, simple and easy and I've notice that I always feel full with what I eat - something that never really happened with the sugar fix constantly pecking at my head.
...
I would sack off the orange juice too. Eating an orange instead would actually be healthy, but fruit juice is just more sugar.
I fancy trying low carb. I eat too much bread and suspect it's making me ill, for example I had a Dominos pizza on Thursday night and awoke at 3am with agonising heartburn, and eating too much bread nearly always results in bloating and a sore stomach and quite often the s
ts. I'm also 3 stone overweight, so maybe it can help with that as I've always found it really hard to shift the weight.
However, I am not very imaginative when it comes to food, so can anyone give me any suggestions or point me towards a meal plan? I had a BBQ today and rather than eating everything in breadbuns I just ate the meat and feel better for having done so. I even had a bunless cheeseburger and it tasted fine without the bun, albeit a little strange having it without the breadbun.
Not saying I will completely give up carbs, but I would like to cut down on them a lot, but I just need some ideas what to have for breakfasts and lunches when I'm used to eating stuff like weetabix, porridge, and sandwiches. I did a stint eating salads many years ago and lost a lot of weight but I got bored with it.
ts. I'm also 3 stone overweight, so maybe it can help with that as I've always found it really hard to shift the weight.However, I am not very imaginative when it comes to food, so can anyone give me any suggestions or point me towards a meal plan? I had a BBQ today and rather than eating everything in breadbuns I just ate the meat and feel better for having done so. I even had a bunless cheeseburger and it tasted fine without the bun, albeit a little strange having it without the breadbun.
Not saying I will completely give up carbs, but I would like to cut down on them a lot, but I just need some ideas what to have for breakfasts and lunches when I'm used to eating stuff like weetabix, porridge, and sandwiches. I did a stint eating salads many years ago and lost a lot of weight but I got bored with it.
TameRacingDriver said:
I fancy trying low carb. I eat too much bread and suspect it's making me ill, for example I had a Dominos pizza on Thursday night and awoke at 3am with agonising heartburn, and eating too much bread nearly always results in bloating and a sore stomach and quite often the sts. I'm also 3 stone overweight, so maybe it can help with that as I've always found it really hard to shift the weight.
However, I am not very imaginative when it comes to food, so can anyone give me any suggestions or point me towards a meal plan? I had a BBQ today and rather than eating everything in breadbuns I just ate the meat and feel better for having done so. I even had a bunless cheeseburger and it tasted fine without the bun, albeit a little strange having it without the breadbun.
Not saying I will completely give up carbs, but I would like to cut down on them a lot, but I just need some ideas what to have for breakfasts and lunches when I'm used to eating stuff like weetabix, porridge, and sandwiches. I did a stint eating salads many years ago and lost a lot of weight but I got bored with it.
Nutritionally, eggs are just about the best food you can eat. Try them for breakfast.ts. I'm also 3 stone overweight, so maybe it can help with that as I've always found it really hard to shift the weight.However, I am not very imaginative when it comes to food, so can anyone give me any suggestions or point me towards a meal plan? I had a BBQ today and rather than eating everything in breadbuns I just ate the meat and feel better for having done so. I even had a bunless cheeseburger and it tasted fine without the bun, albeit a little strange having it without the breadbun.
Not saying I will completely give up carbs, but I would like to cut down on them a lot, but I just need some ideas what to have for breakfasts and lunches when I'm used to eating stuff like weetabix, porridge, and sandwiches. I did a stint eating salads many years ago and lost a lot of weight but I got bored with it.
For other meals just ditching the carbs and adding extra meat and extra green vegetables works well.
Otherwise there are lots of low carb recipe ideas here
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes/meals
grumbledoak said:
Nutritionally, eggs are just about the best food you can eat. Try them for breakfast.
For other meals just ditching the carbs and adding extra meat and extra green vegetables works well.
Otherwise there are lots of low carb recipe ideas here
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes/meals
So a staple of mine is either boiled egg and soldiers, or fried egg on a slice of toast. What do you have yours with? I tried eating a boiled egg without soldiers the other day and did not enjoy it.For other meals just ditching the carbs and adding extra meat and extra green vegetables works well.
Otherwise there are lots of low carb recipe ideas here
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes/meals
I eat a lot of sandwiches, chicken mainly, but I like a cheese and cucumber sandwich. I need to try and find alternatives. To be honest, I'm quite happy just to each chicken legs or wings for dinner and a bit of cucumber / carrot / whatever on the side. However interested to see if I can make it more interesting somehow.
TameRacingDriver said:
So a staple of mine is either boiled egg and soldiers, or fried egg on a slice of toast. What do you have yours with? I tried eating a boiled egg without soldiers the other day and did not enjoy it.
I eat a lot of sandwiches, chicken mainly, but I like a cheese and cucumber sandwich. I need to try and find alternatives. To be honest, I'm quite happy just to each chicken legs or wings for dinner and a bit of cucumber / carrot / whatever on the side. However interested to see if I can make it more interesting somehow.
I skip breakfast these days. Going longer without food means more time burning your own fat. It's easy to do if you can get off the 2 hour carb cycle.I eat a lot of sandwiches, chicken mainly, but I like a cheese and cucumber sandwich. I need to try and find alternatives. To be honest, I'm quite happy just to each chicken legs or wings for dinner and a bit of cucumber / carrot / whatever on the side. However interested to see if I can make it more interesting somehow.
If I do just eat eggs as a meal - usually lunch - it is usually 6 eggs scrambled with some grated cheese for a bit of flavour.
Keto meals would just be and meat with green veg. All herbs and spices are "in", so are creamy sauces, so there is no need for it to boring.
grumbledoak said:
I skip breakfast these days. Going longer without food means more time burning your own fat. It's easy to do if you can get off the 2 hour carb cycle.
If I do just eat eggs as a meal - usually lunch - it is usually 6 eggs scrambled with some grated cheese for a bit of flavour.
Keto meals would just be and meat with green veg. All herbs and spices are "in", so are creamy sauces, so there is no need for it to boring.
Sometimes I am not hungry on a morning, but I sometimes I am and unfortunately if my stomach gets too empty I suffer discomfort or pain. I am sure this might pass with time, I suspect I might have gastritis due to the heartburn etc, and I've always since my teenage years have suffered with gut problems, gastritis is apparently what it was back then after I had the camera down the throat. I could just have a protein shake I suppose.If I do just eat eggs as a meal - usually lunch - it is usually 6 eggs scrambled with some grated cheese for a bit of flavour.
Keto meals would just be and meat with green veg. All herbs and spices are "in", so are creamy sauces, so there is no need for it to boring.
6 eggs in one sitting sounds like quite a lot to me!
I could probably do the meat and veg thing no bother, however I am going to have to find alternatives to some of my meals (i.e. bangers and mash).
From a diabetic (T2) point of view going "keto" has helped me a lot. My three monthly blood check has me lower than the average person and whilst still vastly overweight at 19st now I was near enough 25st in September last year.
I have listened to two books on audible while driving at work. The diabetes code
by Dr Jason Fung and Life without diabetes by Prof Roy Taylor. Cant recommend these enough.
Wish I'd started this years ago.
I have listened to two books on audible while driving at work. The diabetes code
by Dr Jason Fung and Life without diabetes by Prof Roy Taylor. Cant recommend these enough.
Wish I'd started this years ago.
TameRacingDriver said:
6 eggs in one sitting sounds like quite a lot to me!
I could probably do the meat and veg thing no bother, however I am going to have to find alternatives to some of my meals (i.e. bangers and mash).
If you were eating eggs on toast you would have been getting most of your calories from the toast. Take that away and six eggs isn't so much.I could probably do the meat and veg thing no bother, however I am going to have to find alternatives to some of my meals (i.e. bangers and mash).
You can try cauliflower mash in place of mashed spuds
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/low-carb-caulif...
There are alternatives for most foods you miss, even pizza
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/fat-head-pizza
I found that over time I didn't miss them as much. Worse still has been trying old favourites like pasta carbonara after a long time keto - they just made me feel ill! I don't bother any more.
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