Keto diet - anyone else?

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Discussion

ben5575

1,851 posts

162 months

Friday 25th August 2017
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Stu-nph26 said:
Check out Robb Wolf https://robbwolf.com/ he does a paleo/keto approach with low GI carbs cycled around intense training like MMA.
Cheers smile

Calza

1,428 posts

56 months

Friday 25th August 2017
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ben5575 said:
I did a couple of months keto and once the initial pain was over, didn't find it too bad.

I stopped as I struggled training on it. I do MA so more intense, explosive exercise rather than endurance or lifting and it got to the point where I felt so bad afterwards that I stopped the diet.

Any tips/thoughts how to train through it? Is there a modified version of it that people use successfully?
For explosive exercise / intense cardio etc, Keto is simply the wrong choice imo.

It's fine for weight lifting, but you just need to lift within your limits and accept workouts will feel like st ... not a pump in site.

I used a protocol subscribed by a very respected body builder and had no real issues in the gym at all. To be honest even if I was bulking I'd rarely have carbs before a workout.

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Sunday 27th August 2017
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Update after 2 weeks...

My weight passed the "1 stone down" mark today. Only 8 more to go!
Although I'm aware from previous diets that when you weigh as much as this, it's very easy to lose massive amounts of weight at the beginning - it slows down considerably after a while, so I won't hold my breath for losing the next 8 by Christmas!

My cravings for sweets went after only a few days, but my cravings for fruit were pretty strong until just a couple of days ago. I still look at sugary food and think "that would be nice..." but there's zero need/desperation for them as there has been for the last 30 years. Which is nice!

Unfortunately I've still been struggling because my cravings for keto-friendly foods are also non-existent. I'm getting pretty sick of high fat foods, and combined with my dramatically reduced appetite I still sometimes realise at the end of the day that MyFitnessPal only has 500 calories logged for the day, which is worrying. I've been making a conscious effort to eat more, even though I don't feel hungry and don't find the food appealing.
I really hope that changes, because other than that I'm pretty happy.

At the beginning I sometimes felt very weak. Like 20 minutes into walking the dogs my legs would be burning as though I'd walked miles uphill. I saw a few suggestions for taking electrolytes to combat weakness on a keto diet, so I've been taking these (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00L7WXKWU) every day and have noticed a definite improvement.

grumbledoak

24,086 posts

174 months

Sunday 27th August 2017
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AAz01 said:
Unfortunately I've still been struggling because my cravings for keto-friendly foods are also non-existent. I'm getting pretty sick of high fat foods, and combined with my dramatically reduced appetite I still sometimes realise at the end of the day that MyFitnessPal only has 500 calories logged for the day, which is worrying. I've been making a conscious effort to eat more, even though I don't feel hungry and don't find the food appealing.
I really hope that changes, because other than that I'm pretty happy.

At the beginning I sometimes felt very weak. Like 20 minutes into walking the dogs my legs would be burning as though I'd walked miles uphill. I saw a few suggestions for taking electrolytes to combat weakness on a keto diet, so I've been taking these (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00L7WXKWU) every day and have noticed a definite improvement.
The change from being triggered by cravings to being triggered by actual hunger is quite profound. Do try to eat, but I wouldn't worry much about the low calorie intake if you've 8st of fat to burn.

You are noticing the absence of sugar reserves. In exchange you get better at endurance. As with hunger, you get used to it. I drink Berocca daily, but I did anyway.

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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4 week update... 1.5 stone (9.5kg) down.

Weight loss stalled (actually, went up slightly) after week 2. I think the reason for that is that I tried drinking some sugar-free drinks. From what I've read, some people drink gallons without any issues and other people are very sensitive to the sweeteners. Unfortunately it turns out I'm in the latter group, and a couple of glasses of Pepsi Max a day was enough to cause issues weeping.

Real shame, because after weeks of eating nothing sweet it tasted heavenly!

I'm not sure of the science behind it... I still had all the signs of ketosis (keto breath, low appetite, no carb cravings) and was eating well below my maintenance calories, but the weight loss was non existent. Don't know how that works confused
Within 2 days of not drinking sweetened drinks the weight started dropping again.

I'm still struggling to find keto-friendly foods I enjoy, although I'm starting to build a list of meals that I actually do like. Morrisons 'Ribs of Fire' along with fresh veg pots (sugar snap peas, pepper and cherry tomatoes) make a very tasty and convenient lunch lick
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hman

7,232 posts

135 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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yeah yeah - ditch the keto and start using a proper fitness app like myfitnesspal.

Talking of the app - here's what it says about those ribs of fire:-

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/morrison...

I wouldnt touch that with a bargepole as they are high in saturated fat and thats not good if you're looking to lose fat -

fking keto - honestly why make such a simple thing complicated... your body is a simple machine when it comes to weight gain or weight loss.

Simplified Example

2000 Kcal intake - 1500 Kcal required for the day = 500 Kcal's worth of weight gain

2000 Kcal intake - 2500 Kcal required for the day = 500 Kcal's worth of weight loss

Then add in factors of eating high in saturated fat foods into your weight gain or weight loss and you will see that it makes you gain weight faster and lose weight slower.

Dont eat rubbish, lower your intake or increase your activity level (or both!) and you will lose weight.

Every living human being is proof of this.

(I've lost 10% of my body weight using the app in around 8 weeks, not upped my activity level - just been careful to eat better and log it on the app)

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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hman said:
Dont eat rubbish
I haven't eaten rubbish (carbs) for 4 weeks smile. Average of 15g carbs per day in that time. Previously I averaged 300g per day.

I do use the MyFitnessPal app. It's handy although the subscription to unlock full features is a bit costly. I haven't found anything better, though.

Keto has a very specific purpose for me, which you would see if you'd read the thread (obvious you haven't). I have always been addicted to sugary foods. I've managed to stay off them for months at a time before, but with constant cravings during those months that explode into further months of binge eating after a single moment of weakness.
I accept that it's a mental thing and if I eat less I'll weigh less, but after 30+ years of not managing to keep a healthy weight I have also accepted that "trying harder" wasn't working.

The keto diet has removed my cravings for sweets 99%, and my cravings for other sugary foods like fruit 80%.
When I have a bad/stressful day now, I lose my appetite - which is not like me at all and is quite refreshing! Before I was on the keto diet, a bad day would result in a sugar binge.

And I've lost 1.5 stone in 4 weeks... The results speak for themselves. My appetite is greatly reduced thanks to eating higher fat foods so it's easy to stay below maintenance calories. In fact I find it hard to reach them now, even if I try.

The question of whether saturated fats or carbs are less bad for you is pointless in my case. Being 8 stone overweight is without a doubt my biggest health risk. The weight needs to go... Afterwards, I'll probably consider a more moderate low-carb diet because keto is very restrictive and I often have to eat separate meals from my wife which is difficult.

TartanPaint

1,277 posts

80 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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Ignore hman. censored.


Good job, keep it up, and keep the updates coming.

I can't do sugar-free drinks either. I don't know why, as I stick to ones that have 0 GI sweeteners, but it just doesn't work for me.

ETA

Play nicely now!

Edited by Big Al. on Monday 18th September 15:25

Calza

1,428 posts

56 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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Weight loss isn't linear. You won't keep losing weight every day.

Just do things right and keep doing them right. You might go 2 or 3 weeks with nothing to show, then suddenly you've lost 3 kilos!


Hoofy

68,565 posts

223 months

Monday 11th September 2017
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Good luck. I did try eating low calories inc low carb for about 8 months. I did lose weight but the aesthetic result wasn't good and I felt knackered all the time.

The quicker you can get back to eating properly and focus most of your attention on weight lifting with a little bit of cardio, the better.

Pica-Pica said:
Any sugar in coffee, and you are drinking sugar - not coffee. I gave up sugar in tea and coffee decades ago, it will open up the whole range of various teas and coffees available.
smile My coffee must have sugar but I'll happily have the other teas you hint at without any sugar! Who knows why.

feef

4,253 posts

124 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
hman said:
yeah yeah - ditch the keto and start using a proper fitness app like myfitnesspal.

Talking of the app - here's what it says about those ribs of fire:-

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/morrison...

I wouldnt touch that with a bargepole as they are high in saturated fat and thats not good if you're looking to lose fat -

fking keto - honestly why make such a simple thing complicated... your body is a simple machine when it comes to weight gain or weight loss.

Simplified Example

2000 Kcal intake - 1500 Kcal required for the day = 500 Kcal's worth of weight gain

2000 Kcal intake - 2500 Kcal required for the day = 500 Kcal's worth of weight loss

Then add in factors of eating high in saturated fat foods into your weight gain or weight loss and you will see that it makes you gain weight faster and lose weight slower.

Dont eat rubbish, lower your intake or increase your activity level (or both!) and you will lose weight.

Every living human being is proof of this.

(I've lost 10% of my body weight using the app in around 8 weeks, not upped my activity level - just been careful to eat better and log it on the app)
it's not that simple,.

It depends how and when that 2000kcal is delivered.
If you take in more energy than you need as carbs, and are not taking part in exercise to burn it off, then you'll see an increase in insulin and that will convert the unused glycogen to fat for storage. If carb sources are your primary 'fuel' then your body will crave more carbs and glycogen rich foods when you need more energy rather than reverting to the stored energy in the fat from earlier, so it won't get burned off as efficiently as it could be.

If you are keto and fat adapted, then the fat stores become your primary energy source; eating fat does not automatically create fat in your body like the insulin and glycogen process does.

I've lost over half a stone in a month since becoming fat adapted, and my average min/km when running has improved too. I'm running the same distances, frequency and intensity (as in % aerobic/threshold/tempo/anaerobic) as I was before I made an effort to become fat adapted.


LordGrover

30,483 posts

153 months

Monday 18th September 2017
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So much pseudo-science, claptrap and b*llocks from all sides.


Calza

1,428 posts

56 months

Monday 18th September 2017
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What's fat adapted?

AAz01

Original Poster:

99 posts

91 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Calza said:
What's fat adapted?
The main theory behind a keto diet is that your body can either burn carbohydrate or fat for energy. If you eat below a certain threshold of carbs per day then it'll burn fat for energy instead. This is ketosis, or being "fat adapted".

That doesn't mean you can eat 4,000 calories per day and still lose weight, though. You'll only burn your stored fat if you eat a deficit of calories.

The main benefit (for me, at least) is that you no longer get cravings for carbs, as your body doesn't look for them.
I can confirm that in my case this is 100% true and after being addicted to sugar for 30+ years I can now watch other people eating sweets and not feel the slightest inclination to join in.

Edited by AAz01 on Monday 18th September 14:43

Calza

1,428 posts

56 months

Monday 18th September 2017
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Sooo... 'fat adapted' is a word someone has made up for 'in ketosis' ?

MURRAY007

530 posts

136 months

Monday 18th September 2017
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I have a good Friend in America who has been doing Keto for 2 years, (Youtube Goodybeats)
and while he has done both normal diets and now keto, he prefers ketos, due to the way it makes him feel.

I have tried most diets or healthy eating in a calorie deficit, but it was until keto did I discover certain things about my body.

Carbs and this is any type of carbs, bloat me and make me feel sluggish,. also ocassinaly suffer with piles, and carbs have a impact on me with that, high fats don't.

I have more energy with high fats, and seem to concentrate longer (desk job work)

my skin seems to improve, not saying it was bad, but wasn't so greasy.

I grew more facial hair quickly, strange one that. lol

One thing I can say is when I left keto and went back to normal eating, everytime I had carb food, I would fart non stop for hours.

People think it's a simple of eating right and burning calories, well guess f*&*king what, if it was everyone would be doing it, But we are all different and react to different foods differently, that's why there are so many diets on the market, its not one size fits all.

with regards how many calories for keto, there are many calculators, (I would strongly avoid myfitnesspal) for working that out, only use it for tracking them.

im 6'1, 220lbs, I have 1942kcal 154 Fat, 25 carbs, 115 Protein

your body will use the highest amount of nutrients you give it to use as energy. if that's Carbs Fats or Protein,

Good Luck I hope you stay with it, I agree the Food choices in the UK for higher fats is difficult, that's why I end up spending 1hour 30mins food shopping checking out the labels. lol

Oh and haver you had Keto coffee yet, ?????
Uk version. is.
cup black coffee,
14g un salted butter,
14g coconut oil or MCT oil (doesn't matter if you use it hard or liquid form)
14g Single cream
any sweetner
BLEND

enjoy or throw up. lol drink quick or else the FATS will form a layer at the top.

didelydoo

4,880 posts

151 months

Monday 18th September 2017
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On the flip side- I eat a st load of carbs, and pretty low fat. And I can lose weight on that no problem.

I can also lose weight on Keto, and even more effectively on protein sparing diets (low/zero fat & carb, high protien).

Generally, there's simply no need to cut a food group out completely, unless you are dieting to the extreme, or simply lack the mental fortitude to control yourself around food ( joke wink )

feef

4,253 posts

124 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Calza said:
Sooo... 'fat adapted' is a word someone has made up for 'in ketosis' ?
It's quite common and used in research papers and by experts.

e.g. :

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S... "FASTER : Fat Adapted Substrate use in Trained Elite Runners"
http://www.thenoakesfoundation.org/nutrition-netwo...

But the terms are interchangeable

Jimbo NW

823 posts

118 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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mcelliott said:
Did it a few years ago........it got me super shredded, left me feeling weak, and just wasn't sustainable for my needs.
How much fat were you consuming? I felt shocking at first when I did it a few years back, but when I properly upped my Fats the energy came right back.

Shinobi

3,614 posts

131 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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Keto convert here since Feb. With a couple of breaks for holidays and big events but always very keen to get off the carbs.

I'm not doing it for weight loss I was interested to see the other benefits and I must say I'd never go back. The mental clarity and the things I have achieved both fitness and work wise since not having energy spikes and crashes have been enough to cement the Keto diet into my life.

The wife is also doing it but for weight loss and has had great success. The food is great, eat when your hungry if your not hungry then the diet is working and you are probably running off your fat.

Electrolytes are key because cutting carbs you will be ingesting a lot less salt.

I would recommend joining some of the Keto groups on reddit, Keto seems to be a red rag to a bull for a lot of people a bit like Apple smart phones. People in work are obsessed with what I eat, can't be healthy blah blah blah.
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