Keto diet - anyone else?

[mcelliott]

When I did it, it absolutely destroyed my endurance and power (I came from quite a high level). 72kg and shredded weakling or an 80kg ball of muscle - know which one I'd rather be.

[Shinobi]

mcelliott said:

When I did it, it absolutely destroyed my endurance and power (I came from quite a high level). 72kg and shredded weakling or an 80kg ball of muscle - know which one I'd rather be.

I experienced that also, it can take up to 6 months for your body to truly adapt. Not sure how long you tried it for, another way this can happen is not consuming enough electrolytes. I was surprised how much salt I consumed before without even realising it.

If I'm doing a particularly heavy session I switch onto the Targeted Ketogenic approach which is 30g of simple carbs before a workout. Not great for fat loss if that's the goal as you burn the carbs first but for weights it's great and can help push through plateaus. It's surprising when you are "fat adapted" how much energy you have by adding a few carbs before a workout.

Is definitely not a diet for everyone, more of a lifestyle choice for us now.

[Richyboy]

Doesn’t fat cause insulin resistance, not carbs?

[TartanPaint]

Richyboy said:

Doesn’t fat cause insulin resistance, not carbs?

Source?

[oldbanger]

There aren't a great wealth of research papers but it does specifically appear that high omega 6 oil intake (which is high in sunflower and many other seed oils) is correlated with insulin resistance e.g. http://www.centreepic.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/...

Omega 6 fats increase cell inflammation which is strongly correlated with insulin resistance in it's own right. I'd also read one text which put forward the theory that n-6 altered the shape of insulin receptors in the cell wall, though I don't know it that's been tested or not.

There's again not a lot of research linking total carb consumption with insulin resistance but here's one example where total Glycemic load is correlated with IR - http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/2/538....

However there is strong evidence for a correlation between IR and fructose intake: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26738...
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/54/7/...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC55233...

Also, low carbing appears to very quickly improve insulin sensitivity
e.g. see http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.137...

Edited by oldbanger on Tuesday 3rd October 12:25

[AAz01]

7 week update...

Weight still going the right way - 14.4kg (2.27st) down so far.

Did my first cheat day last week for baby's first birthday party, and it was an interesting experience...
There was a big fresh fruit salad, and literally enough sweets and cake to feed a medium-sized city for a year (or me pre-keto for two meals).
I had some of the sweets and a bit of cake, my first in nearly 2 months, and honestly - I'm not just saying this - they were bland and flavourless. Sweet yes, but not especially tasty or enjoyable.

But the fruit salad.... dear god that was good! Giving up fruit has definitely been the hardest thing for me.

I was really worried that doing a cheat day would bring back the carb cravings and make me go through the adjustment into keto again from the start... But nope. I maybe had a slightly increased appetite for a few hours the next morning but no cravings and no noticeable changes. Very happy with how it went, and it gives me the confidence that I can do the occasional cheat days for special occasions without lasting effects.

[TartanPaint]

Excellent progress, well done!!! I had a cheat weekend too, for daughter's 2nd birthday, but didn't get off so lightly. +2kg and feeling pretty bloated and tired.

Glad you got away with it.

[oldbanger]

From the Lancet

Associations of fats and carbohydrate intake with cardiovascular disease and mortality in 18 countries from five continents (PURE): a prospective cohort study
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/P...

High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.

[grumbledoak]

oldbanger said:

High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.

Good. It is long overdue that the high carb, low fat diet was consigned to the history books. It has been disastrous. Ancel Keys' entry in the history books needs a revisit, and Dr Aktins deserves an apology.

[Richyboy]

TartanPaint said:

Source?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1394223/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC50738...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23122836

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10334314

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10027589

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460913

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedic...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/0010480616

[TartanPaint]

Thanks. Bedtime reading.

[Crumpet]

Has anyone found that Keto isn’t as effective for women as it is for men? All the men I know who try it just seem to shed pounds without really trying but all the women are struggling with only losing a couple of pounds - probably water weight as well.

[LotusMartin]

Just embarking on this journey myself, I'm T2D and 17st so figured it was worth a try. Thought I'd kick it off with a 5 day water-only fast, which I'm just at the end of and has been an experience! BS down to a steady 4 and lost nearly a stone so all is good so far (although mainly water I'm guessing). Wife has also bought in to the Low Carb diet and seems to be enjoying it this week. Plenty of recipes on dietdoctor, but I'm not sure how I'm going to cope with no bread, potatoes or pasta

[Halb]

5 days, that's good going, I did 40 hours earlier in the week and a three day one last month.

https://youtu.be/9idhb2aAfns
Intermittent Fasting: Top 5 Mistakes- Thomas DeLauer

Apple Cider Vinegar Drink Recipe for Fasting: Thomas DeLauer
https://youtu.be/E-uKeFbzpCs

[Crumpet]

LotusMartin said:

I'm not sure how I'm going to cope with no bread, potatoes or pasta

I used to live on bread and potatoes and it was difficult to begin with, although the thing I missed most was fruit - mango in particular!

Now I have absolutely no interest in bread, none whatsoever. The only things I crave now are fruit (I get my fix with raspberries and strawberries), beer (I’m happy enough with a glass of red) and desserts (you can make a great Keto cheesecake with a butter and chopped pecan nut base).

I find the diet incredibly easy but I’d happily live on cheese, nuts and ribeye steak if I had to. I’ve always eaten the fatty foods so it’s simply been a case of dropping the carbs and reducing my meat intake. I do occasionally cheat with bbq sauce on my ribs if I’m in the States, but we’re only talking 15-20g of net carbs each time.

Good luck anyway! It took 3-4 weeks for me to get my energy levels back to a pre-Keto state, so do stick with it.

[oldbanger]

Crumpet said:

Has anyone found that Keto isn’t as effective for women as it is for men? All the men I know who try it just seem to shed pounds without really trying but all the women are struggling with only losing a couple of pounds - probably water weight as well.

Keto is the only thing which works for me, but I also have to watch protein like a hawk and be careful not to go overboard with overall calories, though I don't need a calorie deficit. Add in intermittent fasting and it gets a lot easier.

I've tried calorie restriction and low fat diets many times (I was even vegan at one point in my teens, at my parent's instance) - they don't work well for me.

Women who struggle with their weight frequently have PCOS and therefore insulin resistance as an underlying condition, but it does then muck up oestrogen levels too and make weight loss more difficult. I personally also struggle with high cortisol, which is a bugger for slowing weight loss.

[TartanPaint]

LotusMartin said:

Just embarking on this journey myself, I'm T2D and 17st so figured it was worth a try. Thought I'd kick it off with a 5 day water-only fast, which I'm just at the end of and has been an experience! BS down to a steady 4 and lost nearly a stone so all is good so far (although mainly water I'm guessing). Wife has also bought in to the Low Carb diet and seems to be enjoying it this week. Plenty of recipes on dietdoctor, but I'm not sure how I'm going to cope with no bread, potatoes or pasta

You won't struggle after a while. It gets less tempting with time, not more tempting. You might slip up, and when you do you'll realise you feel bloated and terrible again and you'll soon stop even being tempted by stodge.

Get the 30 day trial from DietDoctor and Save/Print all the extra recipes before it runs out. (Naughty, I know.)

Enjoy!

[grumbledoak]

TartanPaint said:

You might slip up, and when you do you'll realise you feel bloated and terrible again and you'll soon stop even being tempted by stodge.

That has been my experience. I think I miss pasta carbonara, but I regret it if I eat it. Normal chocolate is pretty horrible to me now.

Peanut butter comes in buckets though...

[TartanPaint]

grumbledoak said:

That has been my experience. I think I miss pasta carbonara, but I regret it if I eat it. Normal chocolate is pretty horrible to me now.

Peanut butter comes in buckets though...

Oh duuuuuude, have I got a treat for you!!

Buy a spiraliser, and make carbonara with courgette spaghetti (google it). Spiralise the courgette, microwave for just a couple of minutes until warm but not soft, then squeeze the water out and add it to your other ingredients, just like you'd do with the cooked pasta. The more water you can get out first, and the quicker you can get it stirred together and on the plate, the better (less runny) it will be.

I swear, I prefer it to "real" carbonara.

I call it "Onara". Carbonara without the carb.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3-Blade-Vegetable-Spirali...

[grumbledoak]

TartanPaint said:

I call it "Onara". Carbonara without the carb.

Thanks for that. I shall try it.