Keto diet - anyone else?
Discussion
mfmman said:
If my theory is correct, I'm amazed just how quickly my body has become unused to a large influx of sugar.
Won't make that mistake again!
There could also be a contributory effect of the wheat proteins (gluten/wheat germ agglutinin) if you've been avoiding wheat for some time.Won't make that mistake again!
I'm deeply in ketosis again, being that I'm on an extended water fast - day 11 and 5.5kg down. Now I just need to be careful about eating strictly keto when I break the fast (day 15). Too many carbs just turns me into a ravening carb-monster.
Water, plus black tea and coffee and the occasional slurp of cider vinegar. 
Not particularly tired, in fact some days I definitely have more energy and focus, but I'm also not working at the moment. The mental effects are especially noticeable.
Part of this is weight loss and part is looking for apoptosis and autophagy - getting the damaged cells cleared out and replaced. I have a small wound with a healing issue that I'm hoping this will help. Fingers crossed, it's looking good after 6+ months of not healing. Hence I'm still taking vitamins and superdosing vit C, but the fillers/bulking agents don't seem to bump me out of ketosis.
Muscle loss - I'm not lifting or exercising at the moment so I can't measure performance. There are 2 schools of thought currently - Dr Stephen Phinney is convinced that protein is burned significantly during fasting and has older studies that apparently prove it. Dr Jason Fung has more recent studies that prove that there isn't any significant muscle wastage. His explanation is that the breakdown of fat liberates gycerol from the tryglycerides as they're broken down into ketones, which is converted to glucose. There is some protein breakdown but this is more about clearing out damaged tissue and collagen etc. The elevated levels of growth hormone and associated hormones promote the rebuilding and repair of damaged structures from the amino acids liberated in the breakdown. Lots of stories of improved scarring, loose skin tightening and various ailments improving during extended fasting. I refer you to - The Complete guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung (kidney specialist) and Jimmy Moore.
Jimmy Moore in 2016 (I think) did a 21 day fast and had a DEXA scan before and after which appeared to show about 10lbs iirc of lean mass loss. But a week after he started eating again the value was back up to the original value and, as he said, no way could he put on 10lbs of muscle in a week. The technician explained that sometimes the scan can't tell the difference between lean tissue loss and loss of fat associated with internal organs.
I am effectively under medical supervision as the nurse who is dealing with my wound issues is also my practice diabetic nurse and is aware I'm fasting and supportive of it. She does like me to check in with her every few days just to make sure I've not had any problems. This is my second extended fast, my first lasted 30 days. I could have continued, but the not eating was getting more tedious than anything.
Not particularly tired, in fact some days I definitely have more energy and focus, but I'm also not working at the moment. The mental effects are especially noticeable.
Part of this is weight loss and part is looking for apoptosis and autophagy - getting the damaged cells cleared out and replaced. I have a small wound with a healing issue that I'm hoping this will help. Fingers crossed, it's looking good after 6+ months of not healing. Hence I'm still taking vitamins and superdosing vit C, but the fillers/bulking agents don't seem to bump me out of ketosis.
Muscle loss - I'm not lifting or exercising at the moment so I can't measure performance. There are 2 schools of thought currently - Dr Stephen Phinney is convinced that protein is burned significantly during fasting and has older studies that apparently prove it. Dr Jason Fung has more recent studies that prove that there isn't any significant muscle wastage. His explanation is that the breakdown of fat liberates gycerol from the tryglycerides as they're broken down into ketones, which is converted to glucose. There is some protein breakdown but this is more about clearing out damaged tissue and collagen etc. The elevated levels of growth hormone and associated hormones promote the rebuilding and repair of damaged structures from the amino acids liberated in the breakdown. Lots of stories of improved scarring, loose skin tightening and various ailments improving during extended fasting. I refer you to - The Complete guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung (kidney specialist) and Jimmy Moore.
Jimmy Moore in 2016 (I think) did a 21 day fast and had a DEXA scan before and after which appeared to show about 10lbs iirc of lean mass loss. But a week after he started eating again the value was back up to the original value and, as he said, no way could he put on 10lbs of muscle in a week. The technician explained that sometimes the scan can't tell the difference between lean tissue loss and loss of fat associated with internal organs.
I am effectively under medical supervision as the nurse who is dealing with my wound issues is also my practice diabetic nurse and is aware I'm fasting and supportive of it. She does like me to check in with her every few days just to make sure I've not had any problems. This is my second extended fast, my first lasted 30 days. I could have continued, but the not eating was getting more tedious than anything.
bit of an aside to this whole topic, but has anyone else noticed their dishwasher needing properly cleaned out more frequently since switching to LCHF? It seems that it just can't cope with the higher quantity of fat that it's having to deal with and after a week or so is starting to leave a greasy film on stuff (most notably plastics for some reason)
I don't have a dishwasher, but after 20 months LF vegan it's noticeable how much more detergent I need to use.
carl926J said:
Water, plus black tea and coffee and the occasional slurp of cider vinegar.
Not particularly tired, in fact some days I definitely have more energy and focus, but I'm also not working at the moment. The mental effects are especially noticeable.
Part of this is weight loss and part is looking for apoptosis and autophagy - getting the damaged cells cleared out and replaced. I have a small wound with a healing issue that I'm hoping this will help. Fingers crossed, it's looking good after 6+ months of not healing. Hence I'm still taking vitamins and superdosing vit C, but the fillers/bulking agents don't seem to bump me out of ketosis.
Muscle loss - I'm not lifting or exercising at the moment so I can't measure performance. There are 2 schools of thought currently - Dr Stephen Phinney is convinced that protein is burned significantly during fasting and has older studies that apparently prove it. Dr Jason Fung has more recent studies that prove that there isn't any significant muscle wastage. His explanation is that the breakdown of fat liberates gycerol from the tryglycerides as they're broken down into ketones, which is converted to glucose. There is some protein breakdown but this is more about clearing out damaged tissue and collagen etc. The elevated levels of growth hormone and associated hormones promote the rebuilding and repair of damaged structures from the amino acids liberated in the breakdown. Lots of stories of improved scarring, loose skin tightening and various ailments improving during extended fasting. I refer you to - The Complete guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung (kidney specialist) and Jimmy Moore.
Jimmy Moore in 2016 (I think) did a 21 day fast and had a DEXA scan before and after which appeared to show about 10lbs iirc of lean mass loss. But a week after he started eating again the value was back up to the original value and, as he said, no way could he put on 10lbs of muscle in a week. The technician explained that sometimes the scan can't tell the difference between lean tissue loss and loss of fat associated with internal organs.
I am effectively under medical supervision as the nurse who is dealing with my wound issues is also my practice diabetic nurse and is aware I'm fasting and supportive of it. She does like me to check in with her every few days just to make sure I've not had any problems. This is my second extended fast, my first lasted 30 days. I could have continued, but the not eating was getting more tedious than anything.
A most interesting post. I've watched a few FUng videos recently. LOngest fast I did was 3 days end of last year, I did get into the habit of a weekly 30 hr one,but that stopped a while back. Lean mass is important to me and I never noticed any difference on that score.Not particularly tired, in fact some days I definitely have more energy and focus, but I'm also not working at the moment. The mental effects are especially noticeable.
Part of this is weight loss and part is looking for apoptosis and autophagy - getting the damaged cells cleared out and replaced. I have a small wound with a healing issue that I'm hoping this will help. Fingers crossed, it's looking good after 6+ months of not healing. Hence I'm still taking vitamins and superdosing vit C, but the fillers/bulking agents don't seem to bump me out of ketosis.
Muscle loss - I'm not lifting or exercising at the moment so I can't measure performance. There are 2 schools of thought currently - Dr Stephen Phinney is convinced that protein is burned significantly during fasting and has older studies that apparently prove it. Dr Jason Fung has more recent studies that prove that there isn't any significant muscle wastage. His explanation is that the breakdown of fat liberates gycerol from the tryglycerides as they're broken down into ketones, which is converted to glucose. There is some protein breakdown but this is more about clearing out damaged tissue and collagen etc. The elevated levels of growth hormone and associated hormones promote the rebuilding and repair of damaged structures from the amino acids liberated in the breakdown. Lots of stories of improved scarring, loose skin tightening and various ailments improving during extended fasting. I refer you to - The Complete guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung (kidney specialist) and Jimmy Moore.
Jimmy Moore in 2016 (I think) did a 21 day fast and had a DEXA scan before and after which appeared to show about 10lbs iirc of lean mass loss. But a week after he started eating again the value was back up to the original value and, as he said, no way could he put on 10lbs of muscle in a week. The technician explained that sometimes the scan can't tell the difference between lean tissue loss and loss of fat associated with internal organs.
I am effectively under medical supervision as the nurse who is dealing with my wound issues is also my practice diabetic nurse and is aware I'm fasting and supportive of it. She does like me to check in with her every few days just to make sure I've not had any problems. This is my second extended fast, my first lasted 30 days. I could have continued, but the not eating was getting more tedious than anything.
I would like to do a long one, say as close to a week as I could.
the apple cider does not affect the fast?
Kenny Powers said:
Fair play to you sir. And imagine how good that glorious clean fat is going to taste when you start eating again 
I was going to chime in and mention that slow healing wounds are symptomatic of diabetes, but then got the bit where it became clear you’re diabetic
Overweight, not diabetic. Just so happens that the nurse I see regularly is also the diabetic nurse and is supportive of both LCHF and fasting. The wound is just a very small section of a longer incision from elective surgery that stubbornly refused to heal - though, fingers crossed, it's looking really good at the moment. It's in a really awkward place both to access and to place dressings. I was going to chime in and mention that slow healing wounds are symptomatic of diabetes, but then got the bit where it became clear you’re diabetic
Yup, bone broth on the go for refeed on Tuesday.
Kenny Powers said:
Yeah the extra fat being put into the drains is a factor, for sure. Lick those plates clean!
If there's any fat left over on my plate (rare) or cooking dishes, I wipe it off with kitchen towel to go in the kitchen waste for composting. I don't have a dishwasher, but am very aware of what I'm putting down the drains. Halb said:
A most interesting post. I've watched a few FUng videos recently. LOngest fast I did was 3 days end of last year, I did get into the habit of a weekly 30 hr one,but that stopped a while back. Lean mass is important to me and I never noticed any difference on that score.
I would like to do a long one, say as close to a week as I could.
the apple cider does not affect the fast?
I only have a small amount - a shot glass, but no, it doesn't seem to. I'm sure that cider would I would like to do a long one, say as close to a week as I could.
the apple cider does not affect the fast?
but cider vinegar, no. The bottom line with extended fasting is that hunger is not cumulative, it comes in waves, then goes. Overall, I'm no more hungry now than I was on day one. It really helps already being in ketosis though as the switch from dietary fat to body fat is a lot easier.
carl926J said:
Overweight, not diabetic. Just so happens that the nurse I see regularly is also the diabetic nurse and is supportive of both LCHF and fasting. The wound is just a very small section of a longer incision from elective surgery that stubbornly refused to heal - though, fingers crossed, it's looking really good at the moment. It's in a really awkward place both to access and to place dressings.
Yup, bone broth on the go for refeed on Tuesday.
Ah ok, good good Yup, bone broth on the go for refeed on Tuesday.
Keto it seems is gaining traction in the healthcare system. I was dreading having to stick my fingers in my ears and cry “la la la I’m not listening” when revealing to my diabetic nurse and GP that I’m in nutritional ketosis, but both didn’t bat an eyelid, and were fully supportive. My blood work speaks for itself anyway. Degenerative chronic condition my arse!
Edited by Kenny Powers on Saturday 28th July 06:38
carl926J said:
I only have a small amount - a shot glass, but no, it doesn't seem to. I'm sure that cider would but cider vinegar, no.
The bottom line with extended fasting is that hunger is not cumulative, it comes in waves, then goes. Overall, I'm no more hungry now than I was on day one. It really helps already being in ketosis though as the switch from dietary fat to body fat is a lot easier.
Good. I vaguely recall the waves (like through a day when one's stomach expects food), a big wave on the third/forth day ended mine, but as you said, boredom is a factor, just a taste in the mouth, so toothpaste/mouthwash helps. but cider vinegar, no. The bottom line with extended fasting is that hunger is not cumulative, it comes in waves, then goes. Overall, I'm no more hungry now than I was on day one. It really helps already being in ketosis though as the switch from dietary fat to body fat is a lot easier.
Next big fast I try I'll try Delaiers apple cider thing
Do you break your fast with bone broth?
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