Naturally thin?

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Discussion

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Tuesday 22nd August 2017
quotequote all
From what I have read, it seems clear that differences in metabolism are real but normally relatively small. Most people massively over or under-estimate their food intake. I know people who say that they eat a lot but they routinely miss meals! If I miss a meal, I feel like death within an hour but wouldnt say I eat loads (3,000 calories a day, probably).

My personal experience is that I even now can eat as much meat, fish, eggs and vegetables as a like without putting on fat. It is all about the alcohol and simple carbs for me - if I dial those down, I lose fat; if I dial them up, I get fat. But that is probably just because they are very calorific - by cutting out the unhealthy stuff, I am really just reducing my calories quite a lot. It is hard to eat more than about 3,000 calories of meat and vegetables, I guess.

I would always have said that I was "naturally thin", but the reality is that I could easily adjust my diet to hit either 11 stone (skinny for me) or 15 stone (fat as fk) within a year if I had to.


J4CKO

41,279 posts

199 months

Tuesday 22nd August 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
I've never been able to trust my hunger sensations to moderate eating.

When I was younger (teens to early 20s) and very physically active, I had to force down food when I wasn't remotely hungry or I would lose weight. I had to eat until it was slightly painful 4 times a day to stay at around 80kg.

Now I am 34 and relatively sedentary, I am hungry literally all the time. I eat quite a lot but am never full or wholly satiated. If I ate whenever I had an urge to eat, I would get fat fast.
My problem is I eat too quickly, someone else mentioned it, my wife tells me off for it and it is easy to overshoot if scoffing like that.

I think you get into a mindset that you are big chap and needs loads of food, nope, I am mainly just a greedy fat knacker, there is a guy at work who goes on about playing rugby and weight training when younger, he talks like he should be in the circus such is his impressing bulk. He is maybe 19 stone and just eats too much, we need to realise that by and large we arent a special case, we are fat beause we dont do enough and eat too much.








LordGrover

33,531 posts

211 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
I think there are naturally slim builds, as there are stocky and between builds. I have skinny wrists and ankles and relatively narrow shoulders so when I eat properly, and don't drink alcohol, I'm pretty slim.
The amount of excess body fat people carry though, is a different matter. What's changed over the last 50+ years, pretty much since the War, is the explosion of manufactured and processed 'foods'. It's pretty difficult to overeat if you have to prepare your meals from scratch from fresh ingredients with no added oils/fats.
The food industry is to blame, but it's 'our' fault for falling for their marketing hype and buying the stuff.
That and the excessive use of alcohol - I don't know many who don't drink regularly, pretty much every day. So many conflicting 'studies' concluding alcohol is good/bad doesn't help, perhaps tannin and/or antioxidants are beneficial... but regardless of those implications, the excess empty calories drunk must have a detrimental effect.

NorthDave

2,355 posts

231 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
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I'd like to counter some of the above. A few years ago I went to see a nutritionalist as I had lost a decent amount of weight and was struggling to lose the rest. Despite doing lots of exercise (running and biking). We did some tests and it transpired I had an intolerance to dairy - I never used to drink milk but would happily eat cheese and butter. I stopped eating them and the weight fell off.

In around May of this year I was steadily putting weight on - couldn't work it out as I felt I was eating well and exercising a bit. One day making lunch I read the ingredients on a tin of Dhal Makhani and discovered it had cream in. Stopped eating that and the weight started to drop off again.

So it isn't all eating too much and no exercise = fat. I believe different foods agree with different people. Some people are lucky and can eat anything others have to be more careful.

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
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That's not how lactose intolerance works AIUI, I suspect you lost weight simply because you ditched a concentrated source of calories.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
Bill said:
That's not how lactose intolerance works AIUI, I suspect you lost weight simply because you ditched a concentrated source of calories.
That was my reaction, too. Intolerances usually prevent absorption of nutrients so would be more likely to result in weight loss. A bit more complex than that, but the effect on calorie intake of stripping out a food group seems more likely to explain the weight loss. Feeling crap from eating dairy probably also affected energy and activity levels, so reduced the 'calories out' side of the equation.

All very complex, but the basics usually explain most things (according to the stuff I have read).

bobmcgod

405 posts

193 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
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Wobbegong said:
I managed that in Dubai earlier in the year. All you can eat buffets kill my selfcontrol as I demand quantity for money hehe plus I ate two of these to myself, I estimate about 3 000 calories per serving hehe



lick
Where is this?

SturdyHSV

10,083 posts

166 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
I'm another naturally thin one here, have always thought I seem to be able to get away with eating a lot and not get fat etc.

I went to the gym for a fair while (about 7 years in a row) and during that time I realised I really actually didn't eat a huge amount, as I was struggling to eat enough calories for any significant weight gain.

Over the last 2 years (I'm 30) I've been going through depression a bit, and I'd say the first 6 months of this year when I was drinking a lot every day was the first time I actually managed to put on 'fat'. I had a bit of a muffin around the top of my trousers basically which was very hard earned hehe

I've stopped the drinking now and that excess has gone, but realistically that's also because I am now quite significantly under eating. I'm not bothering to eat dinner and I don't bother with breakfast. As such, I'm consuming probably about 800-1000 calories a day, probably 80% of which is around midday.

I'd imagine this is only really maintainable because I'm a software developer so sit on my arse all day, and other than walking the dog for 45 - 60 minutes, I'm pretty much just rotting.

So yes, naturally thin, but I'd imagine if larger friends consumed exactly what I'm consuming, they'd be naturally thin as well.

For those concerned I have an eating disorder, I have no issues with delicious food or the consumption there of, it's simply a reflection of not giving a st about myself and thus not bothering to take care of my needs. I can well imagine some people in this state of mind turn to food as comfort, and if my mind worked that way then I imagine I wouldn't be naturally thin any more either.

DuncanM

6,107 posts

278 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
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TameRacingDriver said:
I've always been frustrated by my weight. When I was a youngun, I was very skinny and simply could not put on weight no matter how hard I tried, and believe me, I tried very hard; I had a HUGE appetite, and a very very sweet tooth. I could easily eat more than both my parents put together, and routinely did.

I remember that my mother used to make home-made corned-beef and potato pies (which were lush!) and I could sit and eat a whole pie that was the size of a dinner plate along with mashed potato, gravy and ketchup while they would just eat maybe a slice. I used to get the rest of the pie they didn't eat the following day for my packed lunch.

On the days when I didn't get a packed lunch and instead got money, I used to get a double quarter pound burger with cheese and 2 bakewell tarts for my dinner every day at school from the local cafe. Not to mention I used to call in every morning without fail for a quarter pound of pick'n'mix sweets.

One particular thing was like heroin to me and that was battenburg cake (and it still is like heroin). I would ride to the nearest shop that would sell it and buy a whole brick and eat the lot. My breath would smell strongly of sugar for nearly a week afterwards. If it wasn't that, it was bakewell tarts, angel cakes or my grandmothers home made sponge cakes. I'd be quite happy to wash this down with full fat coke, sprite or lilt (remember that?).

Basically, you get the idea - I had an insatiable appetite and absolutely loved anything sweet. At age 18, at 5'10" I weighed just 10 stone despite this appalling diet of pies and cakes. Yes I did eat some healthy meals at home too but I'd devour those too and come back for my parents leftovers (if there was any). Even the pet dog probably thought I would try and steal its food. biggrin

One thing though I didn't do an awful lot of was drink, but that changed as I entered my 20's and I have been a fairly heavy drinker ever since. This seems to have been the thing that tipped my weight the other way.

Fast forward to today, and I still have a very sweet tooth, but I have reigned it in a lot, and I am still addicted to sweets but I manage to limit myself to say half a dozen maltesers on a night to get rid of the craving. I get an hours exercise minimum every day (at least 8000 steps, usually more and weight training twice a week). My appetite is considerably smaller than it was as a child, but I am now 15.5 stone. I am, I guess, fairly stocky, but I do have a gut, but the big thing is the drink. Despite all of the crap I ate as a child which didn't affect me, it is the drink that I firmly believe has piled on the pounds, but the problem is drinking is so ingrained in my psyche and social life that I am finding it rather difficult to cut down. I am trying (but not always succeeding) not to have it Monday to Thursday and this helps but honestly, I have tried losing weight before and even if I cut down successfully on the drink its just not easy. That being said I'm honestly not bothered about having a 6-pack figure or anything like that, those days are long behind me. I'd settle for having some decently muscled limbs and less gut.

TLDR - I honestly believe it IS more difficult for some people to lose weight than others, and its not always for the reasons we may think. Some people are dishonest with themselves, but not everyone.
Cor blimey! The first part of that post had me salivating! lick

It's a very similar story to mine, including weight and all.

Alcohol. It really is the one thing that has made me pile on the pounds over the last 10 years.


otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
From what I have read, it seems clear that differences in metabolism are real but normally relatively small. Most people massively over or under-estimate their food intake. I know people who say that they eat a lot but they routinely miss meals! If I miss a meal, I feel like death within an hour but wouldnt say I eat loads (3,000 calories a day, probably).
I thought the case of the ex- Biggest Loser contestants with ridiculously low maintenance calories was interesting. What I wanted to know was whether it was the original cause of their obesity or an effect of gaining and then losing enormous amounts of weight.

NorthDave

2,355 posts

231 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
Bill said:
That's not how lactose intolerance works AIUI, I suspect you lost weight simply because you ditched a concentrated source of calories.
That was my reaction, too. Intolerances usually prevent absorption of nutrients so would be more likely to result in weight loss. A bit more complex than that, but the effect on calorie intake of stripping out a food group seems more likely to explain the weight loss. Feeling crap from eating dairy probably also affected energy and activity levels, so reduced the 'calories out' side of the equation.

All very complex, but the basics usually explain most things (according to the stuff I have read).
I'm not sure I agree - I dont fully understand the science though. The weight gain was relatively large and the amount of dairy in those cans was tiny (from a calories point of view). It is entirely possible the weight gain was water based or something rather than actual fat loss. In fact the gains and loss were so quick I very much doubt it was fat disappearing.

I do know I can eat a lot of other stuff without it affecting me too much or as quickly.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
otolith said:
ORD said:
From what I have read, it seems clear that differences in metabolism are real but normally relatively small. Most people massively over or under-estimate their food intake. I know people who say that they eat a lot but they routinely miss meals! If I miss a meal, I feel like death within an hour but wouldnt say I eat loads (3,000 calories a day, probably).
I thought the case of the ex- Biggest Loser contestants with ridiculously low maintenance calories was interesting. What I wanted to know was whether it was the original cause of their obesity or an effect of gaining and then losing enormous amounts of weight.
Could well be a bit of both, but getting really fat does all sorts of metabolic damage. And being massively fat and then dieting hard also probably reduced lean mass a lot, reducing the maintenance calories. Lose a few kgs of muscle and you need a lot less food.

Otispunkmeyer

12,554 posts

154 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
Bill said:
That's not how lactose intolerance works AIUI, I suspect you lost weight simply because you ditched a concentrated source of calories.
That was my reaction, too. Intolerances usually prevent absorption of nutrients so would be more likely to result in weight loss. A bit more complex than that, but the effect on calorie intake of stripping out a food group seems more likely to explain the weight loss. Feeling crap from eating dairy probably also affected energy and activity levels, so reduced the 'calories out' side of the equation.

All very complex, but the basics usually explain most things (according to the stuff I have read).
A friend of mine was telling me the other night about A1 and A2 milk? The basic difference is that the proteins are different. A2 is more expensive because less cows produce it in suitable amounts. But he was saying that for a lot of people, what they pin on lactose intolerance is actually just their bodies not liking the type of protein. Change to A2 milk and the problems go away. His wife (or maybe it was his daughter, I forget), was having a disagreeable time with normal milk, but on A2 milk she's right as rain again. I'm sure he said genuine lactose intolerance isn't that common (for westerners that is).


A woman at my OH's place of work, small Japanese lady, is almost constantly eating/grazing if the tales my OH tells are to be believed. Yet she's liable to blow away in a stiff breeze she's so slight. She either has worms, or food comes out the other end barely any different from the way it went in!

NorthDave

2,355 posts

231 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
Otispunkmeyer said:
A friend of mine was telling me the other night about A1 and A2 milk? The basic difference is that the proteins are different. A2 is more expensive because less cows produce it in suitable amounts. But he was saying that for a lot of people, what they pin on lactose intolerance is actually just their bodies not liking the type of protein. Change to A2 milk and the problems go away. His wife (or maybe it was his daughter, I forget), was having a disagreeable time with normal milk, but on A2 milk she's right as rain again. I'm sure he said genuine lactose intolerance isn't that common (for westerners that is).


A woman at my OH's place of work, small Japanese lady, is almost constantly eating/grazing if the tales my OH tells are to be believed. Yet she's liable to blow away in a stiff breeze she's so slight. She either has worms, or food comes out the other end barely any different from the way it went in!
I'm not Lactose intolerant. The food test identified that Casein was a protein in dairy which doesn't agree with me. This might well be similar to the protein you mention above.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
otolith said:
ORD said:
From what I have read, it seems clear that differences in metabolism are real but normally relatively small. Most people massively over or under-estimate their food intake. I know people who say that they eat a lot but they routinely miss meals! If I miss a meal, I feel like death within an hour but wouldnt say I eat loads (3,000 calories a day, probably).
I thought the case of the ex- Biggest Loser contestants with ridiculously low maintenance calories was interesting. What I wanted to know was whether it was the original cause of their obesity or an effect of gaining and then losing enormous amounts of weight.
Could well be a bit of both, but getting really fat does all sorts of metabolic damage. And being massively fat and then dieting hard also probably reduced lean mass a lot, reducing the maintenance calories. Lose a few kgs of muscle and you need a lot less food.
There is that. They did a lot of resistance training to minimise the effect, as I recall, but the analysis here suggests that they would have lost a significant amount of lean mass;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC36604...



TartanPaint

2,981 posts

138 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
From what I have read, it seems clear that differences in metabolism are real but normally relatively small. Most people massively over or under-estimate their food intake. I know people who say that they eat a lot but they routinely miss meals! If I miss a meal, I feel like death within an hour but wouldnt say I eat loads (3,000 calories a day, probably).

My personal experience is that I even now can eat as much meat, fish, eggs and vegetables as a like without putting on fat. It is all about the alcohol and simple carbs for me - if I dial those down, I lose fat; if I dial them up, I get fat. But that is probably just because they are very calorific - by cutting out the unhealthy stuff, I am really just reducing my calories quite a lot. It is hard to eat more than about 3,000 calories of meat and vegetables, I guess.

I would always have said that I was "naturally thin", but the reality is that I could easily adjust my diet to hit either 11 stone (skinny for me) or 15 stone (fat as fk) within a year if I had to.
No, it's not just the calories, it's the glycemic index. You're spiking your insulin when you eat sugar/carbs, and insulin is what regulates fat storage. Sugary/starchy things make you fat. Simples.

I think a lot of "naturally skinny/fat" stuff (ignoring exceptional things like thyroid issues) can be boiled down to insulin resistance. Somebody who is fat and inuslin resistant, maybe even pre-diabetic might lose a ton of weight, but because of their insulin resistance they'll put weight back on faster than somebody who has low and stable insulin levels, even if they eat exactly the same things.

J4CKO

41,279 posts

199 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
TartanPaint said:
ORD said:
From what I have read, it seems clear that differences in metabolism are real but normally relatively small. Most people massively over or under-estimate their food intake. I know people who say that they eat a lot but they routinely miss meals! If I miss a meal, I feel like death within an hour but wouldnt say I eat loads (3,000 calories a day, probably).

My personal experience is that I even now can eat as much meat, fish, eggs and vegetables as a like without putting on fat. It is all about the alcohol and simple carbs for me - if I dial those down, I lose fat; if I dial them up, I get fat. But that is probably just because they are very calorific - by cutting out the unhealthy stuff, I am really just reducing my calories quite a lot. It is hard to eat more than about 3,000 calories of meat and vegetables, I guess.

I would always have said that I was "naturally thin", but the reality is that I could easily adjust my diet to hit either 11 stone (skinny for me) or 15 stone (fat as fk) within a year if I had to.
No, it's not just the calories, it's the glycemic index. You're spiking your insulin when you eat sugar/carbs, and insulin is what regulates fat storage. Sugary/starchy things make you fat. Simples.

I think a lot of "naturally skinny/fat" stuff (ignoring exceptional things like thyroid issues) can be boiled down to insulin resistance. Somebody who is fat and inuslin resistant, maybe even pre-diabetic might lose a ton of weight, but because of their insulin resistance they'll put weight back on faster than somebody who has low and stable insulin levels, even if they eat exactly the same things.
Yeah, but it is a chicken/egg situation, I get the impression if you exist on sugar, you give your pancreas a kicking and wear it out at the same time as becoming more resistant. Seesm the further you go down that avenue, the harder it is to come back, so just dont go down there.

I am on Thyroid drugs as I am Hypothyroid, I was fat but mainly it was down to being a pig, cant imagine that having a wonky Thyroid helped matters, but it is a convenient excuse, you may gain some weight but the excess calories need to be there, Hypothyroidism slows your bodily processes down, it really isnt nice but it isnt going to turn you into someone who can get fat on 500 calories a day, it will reduce your desire to engage in exercise and you will burn less calories in maintaining bodily functions, but it wont half, its a few percent, which could be enough to cause a small weight gain, which may compound over time, but for me anyway, it was mainly about eating too much and drinking beer to often, in too bigger quantity.

I know someone with medical issues, largely immobile and they have reached 16 stone, she is only just over 5 ft, she claims it is her disability but when she comes here, she gets a drink of fruit juice, a pint of it, a pint of milk and then puts on Facebook about eating a full tub of Ben and Jerrys, some 1200 calories, not a good idea when you only need maybe 1800 a day to maintain given low activity, low muscle and a lot of excess fat, self fulfilling prophecy being probably nearly double what you should be, you have to lift your weight plus as much again, on weak muscles, its just such a shame as its a pleasure most people still have despite so many things, can still eat and enjoy food.




hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
bobmcgod said:
Wobbegong said:
I managed that in Dubai earlier in the year. All you can eat buffets kill my selfcontrol as I demand quantity for money hehe plus I ate two of these to myself, I estimate about 3 000 calories per serving hehe



lick
Where is this?
When you find out, can you let them know that they should put branding on their plates so people can workout the location from photos.


anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exercise is good for fitness, but it burns relatively low amount of calories- would take best part of an hour just to burn off a mars bar for example.

Reducing what you eat is the key to weight loss, and sleeping well is also important. Informed people exercise to get fit, not as the primary means to lose weight.

The gym industry is worth so much, they like as few people as possible to know the truth.

Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 23 August 16:05

Otispunkmeyer

12,554 posts

154 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
NorthDave said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
A friend of mine was telling me the other night about A1 and A2 milk? The basic difference is that the proteins are different. A2 is more expensive because less cows produce it in suitable amounts. But he was saying that for a lot of people, what they pin on lactose intolerance is actually just their bodies not liking the type of protein. Change to A2 milk and the problems go away. His wife (or maybe it was his daughter, I forget), was having a disagreeable time with normal milk, but on A2 milk she's right as rain again. I'm sure he said genuine lactose intolerance isn't that common (for westerners that is).


A woman at my OH's place of work, small Japanese lady, is almost constantly eating/grazing if the tales my OH tells are to be believed. Yet she's liable to blow away in a stiff breeze she's so slight. She either has worms, or food comes out the other end barely any different from the way it went in!
I'm not Lactose intolerant. The food test identified that Casein was a protein in dairy which doesn't agree with me. This might well be similar to the protein you mention above.
Thats the stuff. Casein. He said some people will find the A2 type much more agreeable with their bowels.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 23rd August 2017
quotequote all
Otispunkmeyer said:
NorthDave said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
A friend of mine was telling me the other night about A1 and A2 milk? The basic difference is that the proteins are different. A2 is more expensive because less cows produce it in suitable amounts. But he was saying that for a lot of people, what they pin on lactose intolerance is actually just their bodies not liking the type of protein. Change to A2 milk and the problems go away. His wife (or maybe it was his daughter, I forget), was having a disagreeable time with normal milk, but on A2 milk she's right as rain again. I'm sure he said genuine lactose intolerance isn't that common (for westerners that is).


A woman at my OH's place of work, small Japanese lady, is almost constantly eating/grazing if the tales my OH tells are to be believed. Yet she's liable to blow away in a stiff breeze she's so slight. She either has worms, or food comes out the other end barely any different from the way it went in!
I'm not Lactose intolerant. The food test identified that Casein was a protein in dairy which doesn't agree with me. This might well be similar to the protein you mention above.
Thats the stuff. Casein. He said some people will find the A2 type much more agreeable with their bowels.
A1 and A2 are both types of casein.

If they werent, A2 milk would be very much worse when it comes to using milk as a source of protein for GainZ .