Steroids ?

Author
Discussion

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,274 posts

199 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
Not for one minute at 46 considering them, just interested on folks opinions and experiences ? I find it an interesting area but I dont really know much about it.

How much faster does muscle build compared to without ? twice, three times or more ?

Does it enhance just the building of muscle or does it help your training ?

There was a young guy at the gym I used to go to (Proper bodybuilding Gym in Sale, Manchester), he trained pretty hard but went from skinny lad to borderline monster in just over a year, we made some gains my mate and I, but this guy made astounding progress, we were early twenties, he was a bit younger, genetics, effort or was he "on the gear" ? we did spot him in the car park looking a bit furtive with one of the proper old monsters so may have been a deal happening.

How do people use it, to get started and make a base, see progress then revert or do they just use it on and off permanently ?

Can it be safe ? what are the side effects ? is it as popular now, I was thinking all the reality TV with buff lads may have caused a surge in use ?

What are the side effects ? there seems to be a lot of internet wisdom about "Roid rage" and staff which I guess is probably either nonsense or overstated.

popeyewhite

19,618 posts

119 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Not for one minute at 46 considering them, just interested on folks opinions and experiences ? I find it an interesting area but I dont really know much about it.

How much faster does muscle build compared to without ? twice, three times or more ?

Does it enhance just the building of muscle or does it help your training ?

There was a young guy at the gym I used to go to (Proper bodybuilding Gym in Sale, Manchester), he trained pretty hard but went from skinny lad to borderline monster in just over a year, we made some gains my mate and I, but this guy made astounding progress, we were early twenties, he was a bit younger, genetics, effort or was he "on the gear" ? we did spot him in the car park looking a bit furtive with one of the proper old monsters so may have been a deal happening.

How do people use it, to get started and make a base, see progress then revert or do they just use it on and off permanently ?

Can it be safe ? what are the side effects ? is it as popular now, I was thinking all the reality TV with buff lads may have caused a surge in use ?

What are the side effects ? there seems to be a lot of internet wisdom about "Roid rage" and staff which I guess is probably either nonsense or overstated.
Train hard, eat properly and you're looking at a gain in lean mass after a 10 week cycle of 4/5 lbs. There are many pitfalls, just as there are highs. You'll read some real rubbish on here, best bet is to talk to people who've done them and not been stupid.

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
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Roids shrink your nads, stop your pecker working, and turn you into a slaphead.

TurboHatchback

4,151 posts

152 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
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I've never done them nor do I plan to but from what I understand it's quite dependent on what and how much you take. There is quite a difference between very small doses and taking so much that you grow hoofs and hair on your eyeballs.

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
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Yipper said:
Roids shrink your nads, stop your pecker working, and turn you into a slaphead.
I have all three of those symptoms, and never took a steroid in my life!

Perhaps if I start, the only way is up! hehe

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
Steroids.

I should write a book on them.

I would rather use the term "Performance enhancers" which covers a much wider area of substances you might use to improve performance or physique of which steroids or anabolics are one group.

In my experience they are over rated, there is a massive placebo effect. A guy, usually young and impressionable pays out for his gear and is told it'll make him more aggressive, able to train harder, recover faster and use heavier weights.

So he takes the gear and starts to train harder, never misses a session, pushes to failure. Sure enough he gets stronger so he can lift more and train harder, he works to exhaustion so he rests better, stops partying so he sleeps better. Starts to look better so he eats better and so it goes on.

The single biggest factor in growing muscle is genetics, same as in any sport. It's 90% nature and 10% nurture. No amount of training, steroids, diet etc is going to make you look like a decent bodybuilder or run like Usain Bolt unless you are born with the genetics.

It's a medical fact that they artificially enhance but the mind, the belief plays a massive part.

If you look at top sprinters there are definitely some using and some not using but the margins are minute.

So they make a difference but your average gym user is not gonna be stepping on the Olympia stage.

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Thursday 24th August 14:36

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,274 posts

199 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
Steroids.

I should write a book on them.

I would rather use the term "Performance enhancers" which covers a much wider area of substances you might use to improve performance or physique of which steroids or anabolics are one group.

In my experience they are over rated, there is a massive placebo effect. A guy, usually young and impressionable pays out for his gear and is told it'll make him more aggressive, able to train harder, recover faster and use heavier weights.

So he takes the gear and starts to train harder, never misses a session, pushes to failure. Sure enough he gets stronger so he can lift more and train harder, he works to exhaustion so he rests better, stops partying so he sleeps better. Starts to look better so he eats better and so it goes on.

The single biggest factor in growing muscle is genetics, same as in any sport. It's 90% nature and 10% nurture. No amount of training, steroids, diet etc is going to make you look like a decent bodybuilder or run like Usain Bolt unless you are born with the genetics.

It's a medical fact that they artificially enhance but the mind, the belief plays a massive part.

If you look at top sprinters there are definitely some using and some not using but the margins are minute.

So they make a difference but your average gym user is not gonna be stepping on the Olympia stage.

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Thursday 24th August 14:36
That's a really interesting viewpoint and make sense, like it mentally triggers a "I am serious BodyBuilder" switch and that gives more momentum to the training.

Also, the genetic thing, are some people just unable to gain mass and some grow like mad ?



popeyewhite

19,618 posts

119 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
That's a really interesting viewpoint and make sense, like it mentally triggers a "I am serious BodyBuilder" switch and that gives more momentum to the training.

Also, the genetic thing, are some people just unable to gain mass and some grow like mad ?
If you train properly, you'll grow. In fact you'll still build if you don't train properly but really you want to get the muscle growth at its greatest in the correct places for your sport. The genetics view is largely nonsense. As soon as you take anabolics you've extended your genetic level.

Jag_NE

2,949 posts

99 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
If you train properly, you'll grow. In fact you'll still build if you don't train properly but really you want to get the muscle growth at its greatest in the correct places for your sport. The genetics view is largely nonsense. As soon as you take anabolics you've extended your genetic level.
Wow, some big differences in opinion on this thread regarding genetics. I know nothing about bodybuilding but one of my mates at university was relatively "buff" from just playing football, the odd run and lifting some dumbells in his room, he appeared to be quite naturally muscular and many of us who did similarly limited exercise were pretty weedy by comparison. This was a personal example of how I came to believe that genetics does play quite a role in how effectively you can build muscle mass. Obviously I may be incorrect!

RTB

8,273 posts

257 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
Anabolic steroids and hormones such as testosterone and HGH certainly work but only for those who are reaching their maximum in terms of training intensity, recovery and diet. To the average bloke doing a few hours a week they'll do very little to build muscle. In fact taking hormones like testosterone and HGH is more likely to result in increased amounts of adipose tissue rather than muscle.

If you train properly 6 hours a day, have the perfect diet to support muscle growth and have reached your capacity to recover then steroids/hormones would be the next step. If you're a podgy 40 year old doing 5x5 3 times a week they're just going to make your tits bigger smile


HappyMidget

6,788 posts

114 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
RTB said:
Anabolic steroids and hormones such as testosterone and HGH certainly work but only for those who are reaching their maximum in terms of training intensity, recovery and diet. To the average bloke doing a few hours a week they'll do very little to build muscle. In fact taking hormones like testosterone and HGH is more likely to result in increased amounts of adipose tissue rather than muscle.

If you train properly 6 hours a day, have the perfect diet to support muscle growth and have reached your capacity to recover then steroids/hormones would be the next step. If you're a podgy 40 year old doing 5x5 3 times a week they're just going to make your tits bigger smile
All pretty much completely incorrect.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,274 posts

199 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
RTB said:
Anabolic steroids and hormones such as testosterone and HGH certainly work but only for those who are reaching their maximum in terms of training intensity, recovery and diet. To the average bloke doing a few hours a week they'll do very little to build muscle. In fact taking hormones like testosterone and HGH is more likely to result in increased amounts of adipose tissue rather than muscle.

If you train properly 6 hours a day, have the perfect diet to support muscle growth and have reached your capacity to recover then steroids/hormones would be the next step. If you're a podgy 40 year old doing 5x5 3 times a week they're just going to make your tits bigger smile
I am more the latter but just interested, not planning on taking them.

Does anyone train six hours a day, surely that would be counterproductive ?

RTB

8,273 posts

257 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
HappyMidget said:
All pretty much completely incorrect.
I stand corrected.

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
If you train properly, you'll grow. In fact you'll still build if you don't train properly but really you want to get the muscle growth at its greatest in the correct places for your sport. The genetics view is largely nonsense. As soon as you take anabolics you've extended your genetic level.
To say the genetic view is largely nonsense is, i'm afraid not true.

Absolutely every single top sportsperson will have outstanding genetics, a natural propensity for sport. That's why there are teams of people scouring the country for kids of a certain shape, size, speed etc.

To use an analogy "You can't make a racehorse out of a carthorse"

Yes, training will make anyone improve and anabolics improve more and faster but genetics is the single most important factor in these matters.

HappyMidget

6,788 posts

114 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
RTB said:
I stand corrected.
Glad we cleared that up wink

I will go into more detail later when I have the time.

TurboHatchback

4,151 posts

152 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
The genetics argument is somewhat spurious, the question was about the effects of steroids vs no steroids on an individual basis. From what I've seen they absolutely work, people make size and strength gains in 6 to 12 months that would take 3-4 years of solid training to achieve naturally. Easy come easy go though, those that make their gains on roids seem to lose them quicker than those that achieve them naturally. I believe that once you're on them the body compensates for the oversupply of synthetic testosterone by reducing natural testosterone production so when you come off the roids your levels plummet. Also the muscular strength gains can outstrip tendon strength which takes much longer to develop leaving you more prone to injury.

SpunkyGlory

2,321 posts

164 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
Steroids.

I should write a book on them.

In my experience they are over rated, there is a massive placebo effect.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Thursday 24th August 14:36
Please don't write that book if that's what you believe.

There's some utter rubbish posted in here, but much of it is the same things you will read in the media.

Steroids, for the most part, are not dangerous if taken in a controlled manner, although as with anything they can be abused and do have potential side effects. They make a huge difference to performance provided other factors are also properly managed i.e. training and perhaps most importantly, nutrition. Yes, it's correct that genetics play a big part and that your average man off the street isn't going to make it to Mr Olympia, but if that average man trains hard with the use of AAS and eats correctly, he will make better gains then someone who doesn't take AAS.

Bear in mind that there are a vast amount of steroids that will have different effects depending on what you're trying to achieve. Test E will give different results to Trenbolone, which will give different results to Anavar or Dianabol. It's common for people to stack different steroids as well, and you'd have a different stack if you're bulking compared to if you're cutting.

Someone can run a basic 10 week Test E cycle and lose all their gains at the end if they don't have a correct Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) in place, not to mention it will play havoc with their testosterone and estrogen levels. But all of these things can be managed to a certain degree to ensure a steroid cycle can be as safe as possible and give great results.

watwenwong

80 posts

131 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
Steroids are massively demonised- and looking through the above, most, but not all, are f*cking clueless about them.

They are not healthy, but they'll not kill you. However, years of abuse will lead to other issues that will very likely be detrimental to your life expectancy. Oral steroids, can be nasty depending on the type, with some particularly strong ones leading to liver damage. However, short runs and sensible doses will not do this. And if they do, it's very much reversible.

Those saying the are mostly a placebo are clueless- they can make huge changes to your body, in a short amount of time. Strength and size will boost to way above what is achievable naturally.

For the record, I use, and have done for a while. I try to keep it sensible, with health in the back of my mind. But, over the long run, it's not a healthy thing to do.

There are many things you can take, each having differing impacts- not only on how it works, but how it effect a particular individual. Some get terrible sides on small doses, some don't. I don't, other than some smaller annoyances on certain compounds.

Any questions, ask, and i'll do my best to answer.

AndStilliRise

2,295 posts

115 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
watwenwong said:
Steroids are massively demonised- and looking through the above, most, but not all, are f*cking clueless about them.

They are not healthy, but they'll not kill you. However, years of abuse will lead to other issues that will very likely be detrimental to your life expectancy. Oral steroids, can be nasty depending on the type, with some particularly strong ones leading to liver damage. However, short runs and sensible doses will not do this. And if they do, it's very much reversible.

Those saying the are mostly a placebo are clueless- they can make huge changes to your body, in a short amount of time. Strength and size will boost to way above what is achievable naturally.

For the record, I use, and have done for a while. I try to keep it sensible, with health in the back of my mind. But, over the long run, it's not a healthy thing to do.

There are many things you can take, each having differing impacts- not only on how it works, but how it effect a particular individual. Some get terrible sides on small doses, some don't. I don't, other than some smaller annoyances on certain compounds.

Any questions, ask, and i'll do my best to answer.
Thanks man, would love to:

What kind were you using?
What were the side effects?
Did you feel like you were cheating?

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Thursday 24th August 2017
quotequote all
watwenwong said:
Steroids are massively demonised- and looking through the above, most, but not all, are f*cking clueless about them.

They are not healthy, but they'll not kill you. However, years of abuse will lead to other issues that will very likely be detrimental to your life expectancy. Oral steroids, can be nasty depending on the type, with some particularly strong ones leading to liver damage. However, short runs and sensible doses will not do this. And if they do, it's very much reversible.

Those saying the are mostly a placebo are clueless- they can make huge changes to your body, in a short amount of time. Strength and size will boost to way above what is achievable naturally.

For the record, I use, and have done for a while. I try to keep it sensible, with health in the back of my mind. But, over the long run, it's not a healthy thing to do.

There are many things you can take, each having differing impacts- not only on how it works, but how it effect a particular individual. Some get terrible sides on small doses, some don't. I don't, other than some smaller annoyances on certain compounds.

Any questions, ask, and i'll do my best to answer.
Sorry.

Despite entering 12 Bodybuilding shows including 2 EFBB Britain finals, owning 5 gyms, being Divisional Director of 34, a training partner of Mr Olympia Dorian Yates, IFBB pros Selwyn Cotterill and Charles Clairmonte, promoting Tom Platz's seminar tour of the UK and being a NABBA judge I'm clueless.


Edited by Thankyou4calling on Thursday 24th August 17:17