Steroids ?

[PBDirector]

this is one of those topics that will cause people who know very little to argue about minutea and those that have something interesting to say to give up and not bother. It's a shame.

[watwenwong]

Thankyou4calling said:

Sorry.

Despite entering 12 Bodybuilding shows including 2 EFBB Britain finals, owning 5 gyms, being Divisional Director of 34, a training partner of Mr Olympia Dorian Yates, IFBB pros Selwyn Cotterill and Charles Clairmonte and a NABBA judge I'm clueless.

Then you should know Dorian didn't grow through a placebo effect. Genetics play a role, in that the good responders get more out of them. But lets not pretend they are over rated.

You've just got to look at the line up in a natural show vs a non natural show. The ONLY difference there is the drugs- feel free to explain otherwise.

To add, I'm not going to argue the point- just give my experiences.

Also to add- the top rise to the top because they're the best- but none of the Pros would be where they are/were with out Anabolics.

Edited by watwenwong on Thursday 24th August 17:20

[Thankyou4calling]

PBDirector said:

this is one of those topics that will cause people who know very little to argue about minutea and those that have something interesting to say to give up and not bother. It's a shame.

Well i for one am out, can't be bothered.

[watwenwong]

AndStilliRise said:

Thanks man, would love to:

What kind were you using?
What were the side effects?
Did you feel like you were cheating?

Test, Tren, Deca, Mast, Dianabol, Adrol, Superdrol- a few others, too. Not all at once mind.

Test/Tren is my go to though. A lot don't get on with it, but I do.

Sides- Night sweats on tren, bit of insomnia too. Some Acne, but never anything too bad. And TBH, that's pretty much it for me. Some Orals make you feel like death after a few weeks, so tend to avoid them (Superdrol eg)

Never felt like I was cheating- if I was competing against naturals I would, and i'd never do it. But it was never a moral issue for me to take. At a point you reach your natural potential, and the only way past that is to add them in. It takes a very long time to reach it though, and many start far too soon.. And jumping on should not be taken lightly. It's a potentially life altering thing. Some people can be shut down, never to recover after one cycle, though it's very rare.

[watwenwong]

Thankyou4calling said:

Well i for one am out, can't be bothered.

I wasn't doubting you're credentials and didn't mean to offend. I've just seen what they can do, and thought you were downplaying them. Training and diet are vitally important too, more so than drugs. But after a certain point, the best training and diet in the world won't make you grow or get stronger.

[ikarl]

Thankyouforcalling - no need to leave, but I was massively surprised by your first post.

I've trained fairly consistently for 15 years and have seen the changes to otherwise normal guys in the space of a few weeks. Certainly no placebo effect I can assure you of that.

Also, would be interested to find out about typical gains from anyone with direct experience.... 4 to 5 lbs of muscle over a few months?.....I've seen more like 4 or 5 lbs in a couple of weeks!

[Yipper]

Steroids work.

They can triple your muscle gain in ~2 months.

https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/steroids-vs-natura...

The downside is, steroids in light, medium or high doses can harm your reproductive organs, turn you into a baldy, and shorten your lifespan.

[mcelliott]

Thankyou4calling said:

No amount of training, steroids, diet etc is going to make you look like a decent bodybuilder

Absolute rubbish.

[watwenwong]

Lean gains of around 5-10kg are possible in a year, over and above your natural limit. Maybe More if under.

But MASS gains of 5kgcan be seen within 2 weeks given the proper compounds- it's all glycogen and water, but you can look huge very quickly. Stop the compound and it all goes though, and your left with lean gains, likely under a kg over a month.

You can't blast all year round, or shouldn't, so it's gain/maintain/gain/maintain and so on.

Even with steroids, growth is a long process, and you have to eat and train consistently and hard, or it's a waste.

[watwenwong]

mcelliott said:

Thankyou4calling said:

No amount of training, steroids, diet etc is going to make you look like a decent bodybuilder

Absolute rubbish.

Bit of truth in there- if you don't have the correct muscle belly structure, you'll never look the best. And that's down to genetics.

[chris watton]

I have contemplated taking steroids, but decided against it, too much risk at my age (50). I just have fun seeing just how far I can (muscle and strength-wise)get through hard training and a very protein rich diet..

Plus I hate needles...

[watwenwong]

chris watton said:

I have contemplated taking steroids, but decided against it, too much risk at my age (50). I just have fun seeing just how far I can (muscle and strength-wise)get through hard training and a very protein rich diet..

Plus I hate needles...

Probably wise, taking with no aim seems pointless. Low dose test may be a good thing though, trt is all the rage in the States, though harder to get on prescription over here.

[popeyewhite]

Thankyou4calling said:

popeyewhite said:

If you train properly, you'll grow. In fact you'll still build if you don't train properly but really you want to get the muscle growth at its greatest in the correct places for your sport. The genetics view is largely nonsense. As soon as you take anabolics you've extended your genetic level.

To say the genetic view is largely nonsense is, i'm afraid not true.

Absolutely every single top sportsperson will have outstanding genetics, a natural propensity for sport. That's why there are teams of people scouring the country for kids of a certain shape, size, speed etc.

To use an analogy "You can't make a racehorse out of a carthorse"

Yes, training will make anyone improve and anabolics improve more and faster but genetics is the single most important factor in these matters.

Back to the point. Once you have taken steroids that artificially raise your growth level there is no point talking about genetic limits is there?

[popeyewhite]

HappyMidget said:

RTB said:

Anabolic steroids and hormones such as testosterone and HGH certainly work but only for those who are reaching their maximum in terms of training intensity, recovery and diet. To the average bloke doing a few hours a week they'll do very little to build muscle. In fact taking hormones like testosterone and HGH is more likely to result in increased amounts of adipose tissue rather than muscle.

If you train properly 6 hours a day, have the perfect diet to support muscle growth and have reached your capacity to recover then steroids/hormones would be the next step. If you're a podgy 40 year old doing 5x5 3 times a week they're just going to make your tits bigger

All pretty much completely incorrect.

Yup.

[popeyewhite]

watwenwong said:

Lean gains of around 5-10kg are possible in a year, over and above your natural limit. Maybe More if under.

Current thinking is the gain in lean mass for a beginner is nearer half that.

[watwenwong]

popeyewhite said:

watwenwong said:

Lean gains of around 5-10kg are possible in a year, over and above your natural limit. Maybe More if under.

Current thinking is the gain in lean mass for a beginner is nearer half that.

May well be true- I see some guys adding 20+ lbs in a year, but that's often with insulin in the mix, so maybe not all lean.

Personally I'd say I've gained around 4kg a year of lean muscle, with the law of diminishing returns applying as time passes. I don't run any thing in crazy doses and stay away from insulin though. Diet and training are very consistent too.

[popeyewhite]

watwenwong said:

popeyewhite said:

watwenwong said:

Lean gains of around 5-10kg are possible in a year, over and above your natural limit. Maybe More if under.

Current thinking is the gain in lean mass for a beginner is nearer half that.

May well be true- I see some guys adding 20+ lbs in a year, but that's often with insulin in the mix, so maybe not all lean.

Personally I'd say I've gained around 4kg a year of lean muscle, with the law of diminishing returns applying as time passes. I don't run any thing in crazy doses and stay away from insulin though. Diet and training are very consistent too.

A sensible approach. Liver OK?

[watwenwong]

popeyewhite said:

A sensible approach. Liver OK?

Yeah, I rarely touch orals (purely for health reasons as they take their toll) and live a healthy life. Blood pressure is good, bloods fine.

[J4CKO]

PBDirector said:

this is one of those topics that will cause people who know very little to argue about minutea and those that have something interesting to say to give up and not bother. It's a shame.

Yeah, its the roid rage

[watwenwong]

J4CKO said:

Yeah, its the roid rage

Some folk do get this, but it's more an amplification of a crap personality I think. Never something that's happened to me, but I'm fairly relaxed generally.