Discussion
TurboHatchback said:
The genetics argument is somewhat spurious, the question was about the effects of steroids vs no steroids on an individual basis. From what I've seen they absolutely work, people make size and strength gains in 6 to 12 months that would take 3-4 years of solid training to achieve naturally. Easy come easy go though, those that make their gains on roids seem to lose them quicker than those that achieve them naturally. I believe that once you're on them the body compensates for the oversupply of synthetic testosterone by reducing natural testosterone production so when you come off the roids your levels plummet. Also the muscular strength gains can outstrip tendon strength which takes much longer to develop leaving you more prone to injury.
Look at how many strongmen tear thier bicep doing deadlifts. The facts re steroids are that several million people have taken them and they have been widely available since the 60's, in the USA anyway, and by the 70's almost everywhere. If they didn't work people wouldn't take them, simple as. If you google 'bodybuilders then and now' you might see the mr bean characters under the juice. Once they stop they look normal. Wrt genetics, some people may have more androgen receptors than normal hence why they get huge on a stack, but it's such an underground 'sport' it doesn't really matter. Not really a sport more of an experiment on yourself . I've trained in weight training gyms for 16 years and MMA for 10+ during that time I've known a lot of people that have used various steroids and have had varying affects, what I've seen most commonly is young lads fill themselves with as much test and Deca as possible no AI and no PCT, balloon up in size with typically a lot more water retention than muscle and once their cycle finishes they shrink back to normal.
However I've known quite a few people who have done it properly and had well thought out cycles and ancilleries and combined it with good training and diet and the results were phenomenal, miles beyond other guys I've trained with that have been just as committed but steroid free. I've seen more people go to blast & cruise recently which alongside taking regular bloods and taking the appropriate actions to keep things in check has lead to some really significant results.
My only personal experience was 6 months of pharma grade HGH to help fix up some tendon injury I had suffered with in my elbows for years, it definitely did the job but was expensive, it also helped my recovery from training though there was very little visible difference
It does concern me the number of young lads I know f
king up their HPTA by blasting crazy amounts of gear at a young age, they're gonna be fked as spending money on PCT is something they don't seem interested in
However I've known quite a few people who have done it properly and had well thought out cycles and ancilleries and combined it with good training and diet and the results were phenomenal, miles beyond other guys I've trained with that have been just as committed but steroid free. I've seen more people go to blast & cruise recently which alongside taking regular bloods and taking the appropriate actions to keep things in check has lead to some really significant results.
My only personal experience was 6 months of pharma grade HGH to help fix up some tendon injury I had suffered with in my elbows for years, it definitely did the job but was expensive, it also helped my recovery from training though there was very little visible difference
It does concern me the number of young lads I know f
king up their HPTA by blasting crazy amounts of gear at a young age, they're gonna be fked as spending money on PCT is something they don't seem interested inBRR said:
It does concern me the number of young lads I know fking up their HPTA by blasting crazy amounts of gear at a young age, they're gonna be fked as spending money on PCT is something they don't seem interested in
I don't understand why they just can't wait. At their age they have the natural testosterone levels I'd have to cycle to be level with. And when you're that young and full of ... who needs a PCT?king up their HPTA by blasting crazy amounts of gear at a young age, they're gonna be fked as spending money on PCT is something they don't seem interested inpopeyewhite said:
I don't understand why they just can't wait. At their age they have the natural testosterone levels I'd have to cycle to be level with. And when you're that young and full of ... who needs a PCT?
This is what I tell them, if you can't make serious gains from 17-25 without using steroids you're doing something wrong, then if they do want to start later on they will have a great base to work frompopeyewhite said:
I don't understand why they just can't wait. At their age they have the natural testosterone levels I'd have to cycle to be level with. And when you're that young and full of ... who needs a PCT?
It's a reflection of modern society- why wait and work, when you can get it faster. Not thought through, and won't end well.watwenwong said:
popeyewhite said:
I don't understand why they just can't wait. At their age they have the natural testosterone levels I'd have to cycle to be level with. And when you're that young and full of ... who needs a PCT?
It's a reflection of modern society- why wait and work, when you can get it faster. Not thought through, and won't end well.
watwenwong said:
popeyewhite said:
I don't understand why they just can't wait. At their age they have the natural testosterone levels I'd have to cycle to be level with. And when you're that young and full of ... who needs a PCT?
It's a reflection of modern society- why wait and work, when you can get it faster. Not thought through, and won't end well.hes in da club with their tight tee's.They'll go to Marbs or Ibiza to fit in and wear long shorts to hid their scrawny legs
On a related note, is RIch Piana now dead? I think it's ridiculous how much momentum it's gathered today. Checked my IG feed whilst on the bog this morning and saw bradley martin post rest in piece. knowing him it's probably a joke (and he doesnt know anything) but everyones making RIP posts etc..
ambuletz said:
On a related note, is RIch Piana now dead? I think it's ridiculous how much momentum it's gathered today. Checked my IG feed whilst on the bog this morning and saw bradley martin post rest in piece. knowing him it's probably a joke (and he doesnt know anything) but everyones making RIP posts etc..
Big Rich has indeed passed - RIP
Abuse (high doses for long periods) coupled with diuretics will kill you quicker. Wrestlers tend to die from stim/party drug abuse, with steroids being an added factor. Sensible doses with limited durations won't do as much harm as most think.
McCarver apparently choked to death, though had been having breathing issues for a while- he was huge though, and it's not difficult to join the dots.
Rich Piana has done a lot of silly things, pushing the envelope too far for too long, not just with steroids.
RIP to both, always a shame when someone dies.
Steroids are not healthy however you spin it, but you can minimise the impact of them if you're sensible with regards to doses and off/cruise time. The temptation to keep blasting and gaining is there, but it's never going to end well in the long run. (I'm hoping my early death will just knock off some time in a Nursing home
)
McCarver apparently choked to death, though had been having breathing issues for a while- he was huge though, and it's not difficult to join the dots.
Rich Piana has done a lot of silly things, pushing the envelope too far for too long, not just with steroids.
RIP to both, always a shame when someone dies.
Steroids are not healthy however you spin it, but you can minimise the impact of them if you're sensible with regards to doses and off/cruise time. The temptation to keep blasting and gaining is there, but it's never going to end well in the long run. (I'm hoping my early death will just knock off some time in a Nursing home
)I guess one problem is that, with human nature being what it is, for some, whatever they do it is never enough.
They may start out with all the best intention in the world, promising themselves they'll do steroids by the book. however, the bigger and stronger you get, it is never enough, you want to be even bigger and even stronger - this is probably more acute if you train in an environment where most are also taking stuff.
I have never taken any, but just surmising based on the way I change goals as I progress - I am never happy. I guess steroids unlocks a whole new world of potential - but with a price, even if doing things by the book.
They may start out with all the best intention in the world, promising themselves they'll do steroids by the book. however, the bigger and stronger you get, it is never enough, you want to be even bigger and even stronger - this is probably more acute if you train in an environment where most are also taking stuff.
I have never taken any, but just surmising based on the way I change goals as I progress - I am never happy. I guess steroids unlocks a whole new world of potential - but with a price, even if doing things by the book.
chris watton said:
I guess steroids unlocks a whole new world of potential - but with a price, even if doing things by the book.
Proof does not exist that when taken responsibly steroids are bad for you. The problem is just that steroids bring with them a whole host of other issues. If you're strong you'll be fine, if you have anything other than a completely stable personality and A1 health you might want to not bother.
popeyewhite said:
chris watton said:
I guess steroids unlocks a whole new world of potential - but with a price, even if doing things by the book.
Proof does not exist that when taken responsibly steroids are bad for you. The problem is just that steroids bring with them a whole host of other issues. If you're strong you'll be fine, if you have anything other than a completely stable personality and A1 health you might want to not bother.popeyewhite said:
Proof does not exist that when taken responsibly steroids are bad for you. The problem is just that steroids bring with them a whole host of other issues. If you're strong you'll be fine, if you have anything other than a completely stable personality and A1 health you might want to not bother.
Good post. There are issues such as heart growth, that's pretty unavoidable i'd guess, but concrete links to steroids being the actual cause of major issues (when taken sensibly, as you said) are few and far between.Research thoroughly, be sensible and be prepared- and you'll more than likely be fine. This isn't what you tend to see in the press or on the internet however.
chris watton said:
I guess one problem is that, with human nature being what it is, for some, whatever they do it is never enough.
They may start out with all the best intention in the world, promising themselves they'll do steroids by the book. however, the bigger and stronger you get, it is never enough, you want to be even bigger and even stronger - this is probably more acute if you train in an environment where most are also taking stuff.
I have never taken any, but just surmising based on the way I change goals as I progress - I am never happy. I guess steroids unlocks a whole new world of potential - but with a price, even if doing things by the book.
In th world of wrestling, it's also job competition. The size plus the healing factor and the lack of any safety net was an inducer in the 70s-90s up to the huge steroid scandal of the early 90s, when the main stars pretty much shrank overnight. It slowly climbed back up to pre-1992 levels before the end of the decade.They may start out with all the best intention in the world, promising themselves they'll do steroids by the book. however, the bigger and stronger you get, it is never enough, you want to be even bigger and even stronger - this is probably more acute if you train in an environment where most are also taking stuff.
I have never taken any, but just surmising based on the way I change goals as I progress - I am never happy. I guess steroids unlocks a whole new world of potential - but with a price, even if doing things by the book.
I work with a lad who is pretty into his training.
Not bodybuilding but he was on 'the gear', clean eating etc.
He was in half decent shape, abs, triangular shape top half, tiny waist etc.
He said he's taken both oral/injected steroids & has said the former are horrible.
He also said they're very expensive (few hundred a month) & very addictive, he said addictive mentally, in the fact that he liked what he saw, not that his body craved them.
He also said that as well as his balls shrivelling up, he did get the 'roid rage'.
He lost almost 2 1/2 stone once he came off them & reckons his 1 rep max bench dropped by 20-30KG although he thinks thats partly placebo.
The reason he stopped taking them?
He got really ill with a liver/kidney infection & the Dr in very few words told him he would probably kill himself if he carried on.
Not bodybuilding but he was on 'the gear', clean eating etc.
He was in half decent shape, abs, triangular shape top half, tiny waist etc.
He said he's taken both oral/injected steroids & has said the former are horrible.
He also said they're very expensive (few hundred a month) & very addictive, he said addictive mentally, in the fact that he liked what he saw, not that his body craved them.
He also said that as well as his balls shrivelling up, he did get the 'roid rage'.
He lost almost 2 1/2 stone once he came off them & reckons his 1 rep max bench dropped by 20-30KG although he thinks thats partly placebo.
The reason he stopped taking them?
He got really ill with a liver/kidney infection & the Dr in very few words told him he would probably kill himself if he carried on.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff