Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
Discussion
C Lee Farquar said:
I'm struggling to see why the NHS isn't promoting LC diets?
It's worked wonders for me and I'm clearly not the only one. I can't say it's been that difficult either.
Influence and lobbying permeates every level. It’s really the only explanation. There’s so much evidence (and has been for several decades), that it seems impossible that the NHS collectively doesn’t know that low carb is the absolute best intervention for T2DM. It's worked wonders for me and I'm clearly not the only one. I can't say it's been that difficult either.
All the more sickening when their ridiculous advice of a diet based on a majority of starchy carbs is costing people limbs and eyes, while they witter on about the astronomical cost of treating them. It actually makes me angry
Fat clogs your arteries is my favourite. Firstly all fat is liquid at 37c. Secondly it doesn’t clog the smaller veins or tiny capillaries, only the massive drainpipe arteries close to the heart. Total myth.
It’s up there with five-a-day and everything in moderation. Everything in moderation? Really? Literally? Hey Kenny, fancy a pint of diesel? Oh go on then, one won’t hurt, but make it a half. What a load of s
t, along with 90% of all health and nutrition advice 
How some of this stuff still permeates society would be a mystery if I didn’t already know it’s all about the money. The cost of diabetes medications has risen by 300% in recent years as the epidemic has exploded. Supply and demand.
It’s up there with five-a-day and everything in moderation. Everything in moderation? Really? Literally? Hey Kenny, fancy a pint of diesel? Oh go on then, one won’t hurt, but make it a half. What a load of s
t, along with 90% of all health and nutrition advice How some of this stuff still permeates society would be a mystery if I didn’t already know it’s all about the money. The cost of diabetes medications has risen by 300% in recent years as the epidemic has exploded. Supply and demand.
Years ago we had carb based diets though, with much lower instances of type 2 diabetes.
As a nation we've become a bunch of overeating, under exercising fat bds & I can't help thinking this has more impact on our health than our continued consumption of carbohydrates.
Has our carb intake really gone up over the years as a % of our diets, or are we simply overeating?
As a nation we've become a bunch of overeating, under exercising fat b
ds & I can't help thinking this has more impact on our health than our continued consumption of carbohydrates.Has our carb intake really gone up over the years as a % of our diets, or are we simply overeating?
zygalski said:
Years ago we had carb based diets though, with much lower instances of type 2 diabetes.
As a nation we've become a bunch of overeating, under exercising fat bds & I can't help thinking this has more impact on our health than our continued consumption of carbohydrates.
Has our carb intake really gone up over the years as a % of our diets, or are we simply overeating?
I don't know the answer to that, other than losing weight and generally cutting out sugar rich foods and reducing carbs is making me feel better, though still not managed to speak to anyone and get numbers from GP yet. As a nation we've become a bunch of overeating, under exercising fat b
ds & I can't help thinking this has more impact on our health than our continued consumption of carbohydrates.Has our carb intake really gone up over the years as a % of our diets, or are we simply overeating?
Going to get flamed for this no doubt but that analogy above against eating everything in moderation by citing the example of drinking a pint of diesel is one of the most stupid and hyperbolic analogies used on PH ever. Beating even some of the s
te on the Brexit threads.FiF said:
Going to get flamed for this no doubt but that analogy above against eating everything in moderation by citing the example of drinking a pint of diesel is one of the most stupid and hyperbolic analogies used on PH ever. Beating even some of the ste on the Brexit threads.
te on the Brexit threads.
That was exactly my point. It’s not everything in moderation at all. It’s a meaningless statement that simply means eat whatever your personally decide is acceptable in moderation. It’s an empty assertion that serves no purpose. Seed oils are toxic proinflammatory junk, yet we’re encouraged to consume them in moderation. The diesel analogy perhaps wasn’t so far from being reasonable
Edited by Kenny Powers on Sunday 11th November 10:43
Kenny Powers said:
FiF said:
Going to get flamed for this no doubt but that analogy above against eating everything in moderation by citing the example of drinking a pint of diesel is one of the most stupid and hyperbolic analogies used on PH ever. Beating even some of the ste on the Brexit threads.
te on the Brexit threads.That was exactly my point. It’s not everything in moderation at all. It’s a meaningless statement that simply means eat whatever your personally decide is acceptable in moderation. It’s an empty assertion that serves no purpose. Seed oils are toxic proinflammatory junk, yet we’re encouraged to consume them in moderation. The diesel analogy perhaps wasn’t so far from being reasonable
Edited by Kenny Powers on Sunday 11th November 10:43
Blabbing on about a pint of diesel just makes the reader think, "Big pinch of salt needed here."
Yeah. Oh well, it was only an analogy. In my opinion it’s not that far off the mark. Everything in moderation is just an excuse to eat anything you want. And that’s fine, but not necessarily healthy. We should be eating more good things and less bad things, not a little bit of everything. It’s an empty statement that enables you to drink diesel if taken literally
More importantly, if you’re trying to reverse diabetes, as per the discussion, everything in moderation is most definitely not the way to go about it. But we’re adults so I’m sure we can disagree amicably
More importantly, if you’re trying to reverse diabetes, as per the discussion, everything in moderation is most definitely not the way to go about it. But we’re adults so I’m sure we can disagree amicably
Hasn’t farming been occurring for approx 10,000 years? I don’t think that humans are not enabled to eat carb. crops (wheat etc) as you state. We would have evolved by now in order to be able to eat the foods we do. We’re not cavemen, we have changed (one reason I think those silly fad diets cavemen diet are ridiculous). I’m not doubting your zero carb does enable you to reverse diabetes but I certainly don’t think eating carbs causes diabetes. Perhaps it does in some small amount of population with genetic differences that have not evolved, and without modern medicine / techniques to stay alive eventually they would have been killed off.
Just musing about evolution I don’t have a hat in the ring.
Just musing about evolution I don’t have a hat in the ring.
CoolHands said:
Hasn’t farming been occurring for approx 10,000 years? I don’t think that humans are not enabled to eat carb. crops (wheat etc) as you state. We would have evolved by now in order to be able to eat the foods we do. We’re not cavemen, we have changed (one reason I think those silly fad diets cavemen diet are ridiculous). I’m not doubting your zero carb does enable you to reverse diabetes but I certainly don’t think eating carbs causes diabetes. Perhaps it does in some small amount of population with genetic differences that have not evolved, and without modern medicine / techniques to stay alive eventually they would have been killed off.
Just musing about evolution I don’t have a hat in the ring.
Oh, we have "evolved" since the introduction of farming - Paleolithic man was taller than us, stronger than us, and he had a bigger brain!Just musing about evolution I don’t have a hat in the ring.
It is also untrue to suggest that we are well adapted to these "foods" - 10,000 years is not long in evolutionary terms. Obesity, diabetes, and Alzheimer's are all caused by the amount of sugar we ingest from cereals and "five a day" fruit and vegetables. Chron's, Coeliac, Diverticulitis are all symptoms of an intestinal system damaged by the "food" we keep eating. Numerous auto-immune diseases are also now thought to be triggered by "leaky gut" - the contents of our damaged intestines leaking into the blood where the immune system must attack them. Some of these conditions can be reversed by adopting the "caveman diet" you ridicule. I cannot think of a more widely accepted proof of causality.
Well what should modern man be eating? (Keep it simple) ie we probably all agree Kellogg’s cereals are bad (sugary) but at a basic level what should we be eating! Boiled eggs; cheeses bacon? Meat; Potatoes (bust they’re carbs?); is dairy allowed? (But it’s all processed); you mention 5 a day of fruit and veg is bad but surely ancient man would have been plucking and eating fruit? It just doesn’t make sense - if we read all what’s in this thread there’s basically nothing to eat.
CoolHands said:
Well what should modern man be eating? (Keep it simple) ie we probably all agree Kellogg’s cereals are bad (sugary) but at a basic level what should Bowen be eating! Boiled eggs; cheeses bacon? Meat; Potatoes (bust they’re carbs?); is dairy allowed? (But it’s all processed); you mention 5 a day of fruit and veg is bad but surely ancient man would have been plucking and eating fruit? It just doesn’t make sense - if we read all what’s in this thread there’s basically nothing to eat.
Presumably, a balanced diet that includes plenty of fruit, vegetables, plenty of non-alcoholic liquids, fibre, a 'moderate' amount of fish/meat/poultry and another 'moderate' amount of carbohydrates ?Much of this is probably better suited to the keto or LCHF threads where people can debate what they consider a balanced diet. This particular discussion is pretty specialised. It’s about reversing diabetes. This is literally impossible if consuming what anyone would consider a moderate amount of carbohydrate.
Kenny Powers said:
Much of this is probably better suited to the keto or LCHF threads where people can debate what they consider a balanced diet. This particular discussion is pretty specialised. It’s about reversing diabetes. This is literally impossible if consuming what anyone would consider a moderate amount of carbohydrate.
For helping to reverse diabetes I would still keep to much the same diet as above, but cut out the carbohydrates. People simply won't follow diets that they consider to be 'too difficult' - but keeping it simple suits a good many.CoolHands said:
Well what should modern man be eating? (Keep it simple) ie we probably all agree Kellogg’s cereals are bad (sugary) but at a basic level what should we be eating! Boiled eggs; cheeses bacon? Meat; Potatoes (bust they’re carbs?); is dairy allowed? (But it’s all processed); you mention 5 a day of fruit and veg is bad but surely ancient man would have been plucking and eating fruit? It just doesn’t make sense - if we read all what’s in this thread there’s basically nothing to eat.
Ancient man plucking an eating fruit? Sure. For how many weeks of the year could they make a fruit salad?And did you realize that the fruit we eat now is nothing like that of ten thousand years ago? We have bred it for maximum size and sugar because that sells best. Melbourne zoo recently stopped feeding fruit to their monkeys because it was making them fat and rotting their teeth!
https://www.smh.com.au/national/zoo-won-t-panda-to...
It is difficult to say what the "perfect" human diet would be: we have had over a hundred years of industrially produced foods, any or all of which could be bad for us (none of them were ever tested before sale). These foods have been advertised by the manufacturers, backed up by dubious science, pushed by one religion (and the vegans), and now by governments. Which is why some people look a the diets and health of ancient and indigenous peoples to try to work it out. They all come to the same conclusion - these people were actually very healthy. So we can confidently say: "eat more like they did", but you get a lot of wiggle room.
It is drifting off topic though...
CoolHands said:
Hasn’t farming been occurring for approx 10,000 years? I don’t think that humans are not enabled to eat carb. crops (wheat etc) as you state. We would have evolved by now in order to be able to eat the foods we do. We’re not cavemen, we have changed (one reason I think those silly fad diets cavemen diet are ridiculous). I’m not doubting your zero carb does enable you to reverse diabetes but I certainly don’t think eating carbs causes diabetes. Perhaps it does in some small amount of population with genetic differences that have not evolved, and without modern medicine / techniques to stay alive eventually they would have been killed off.
Just musing about evolution I don’t have a hat in the ring.
a current hypothesis is that cooked starches advanced human evolution, but probably not krispy kremes and twinkies. Just musing about evolution I don’t have a hat in the ring.
https://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/08/10...
These tribal folk are also a hell of a lot more active than your average T2 Westerner.
If you're constantly on the move, you can pretty much eat what you want.
Also, what is the average life expectancy in say a modern Amazonian tribe?
If they don't have access to modern medicine then I don't see any reasonable comparison can be made between their lifestyles and ours.
It's another pointless comparison.
What we should be looking at is the lifestyle of the majority of those who develop T2 diabetes.
What are they doing differently than those of a similar age who don't have the disease?
Trying to fix the problem after years of over eating, over drinking & not enough exercise is one thing.
Better in my opinion to not get a lifestyle disease like this in the first instance.
If you're constantly on the move, you can pretty much eat what you want.
Also, what is the average life expectancy in say a modern Amazonian tribe?
If they don't have access to modern medicine then I don't see any reasonable comparison can be made between their lifestyles and ours.
It's another pointless comparison.
What we should be looking at is the lifestyle of the majority of those who develop T2 diabetes.
What are they doing differently than those of a similar age who don't have the disease?
Trying to fix the problem after years of over eating, over drinking & not enough exercise is one thing.
Better in my opinion to not get a lifestyle disease like this in the first instance.
zygalski said:
These tribal folk are also a hell of a lot more active than your average T2 Westerner.
If you're constantly on the move, you can pretty much eat what you want.
Also, what is the average life expectancy in say a modern Amazonian tribe?
If they don't have access to modern medicine then I don't see any reasonable comparison can be made between their lifestyles and ours.
It's another pointless comparison.
What we should be looking at is the lifestyle of the majority of those who develop T2 diabetes.
What are they doing differently than those of a similar age who don't have the disease?
Trying to fix the problem after years of over eating, over drinking & not enough exercise is one thing.
Better in my opinion to not get a lifestyle disease like this in the first instance.
I only know a few with diabetes 2 but the common denominator is very obvious, mainly just eating/drinking FAR too much. Lack of exercise is also notable, but the overeating is just so blatantly obvious.If you're constantly on the move, you can pretty much eat what you want.
Also, what is the average life expectancy in say a modern Amazonian tribe?
If they don't have access to modern medicine then I don't see any reasonable comparison can be made between their lifestyles and ours.
It's another pointless comparison.
What we should be looking at is the lifestyle of the majority of those who develop T2 diabetes.
What are they doing differently than those of a similar age who don't have the disease?
Trying to fix the problem after years of over eating, over drinking & not enough exercise is one thing.
Better in my opinion to not get a lifestyle disease like this in the first instance.
I know 3 people who have T2 diabetes.
All 3 are obese, eat & drink far too much & are people who you could say lead rather sedentary lifestyles or alternatively you could call them lazy.
I'm sad to hear that the only people I know with this modern Western disease fit into some sort of appalling stereotype, but there you go.
Perhaps the first line of attack in treatment should be a good long look in the mirror.
All 3 are obese, eat & drink far too much & are people who you could say lead rather sedentary lifestyles or alternatively you could call them lazy.
I'm sad to hear that the only people I know with this modern Western disease fit into some sort of appalling stereotype, but there you go.
Perhaps the first line of attack in treatment should be a good long look in the mirror.
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