Reversing Type 2 Diabetes

Reversing Type 2 Diabetes

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Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Sunday 11th November 2018
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Kenny Powers said:
There’s only about two people in this discussion who have a deep understanding of what diabetes is, how it’s caused and what the symptoms are. The rest are just regurgitating the same old tired misinformed cliches.
If you're suggesting that everyone (bar just two) don't understand what diabetes is then perhaps all the info put out by the NHS is inadequate. From observing those with diabetes, and knowing what they've been told, I'm going to be very annoyed if all the medical advice to date is wrong.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Sunday 11th November 2018
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It is wrong. That’s essentially what this topic is about laugh

No one has ever reversed diabetes by following the NHS advice.

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Sunday 11th November 2018
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
It is wrong. That’s essentially what this topic is about laugh

No one has ever reversed diabetes by following the NHS advice.
Not a single one ?

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Sunday 11th November 2018
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
Not a single one ?
Well the only way to reverse diabetes (no symptoms no medication) is to drastically reduce or even completely eliminate carbohydrate from the diet. Typically as low as 20g per day. The NHS advice to all diabetics is to base their diet on carbohydrate, which would typically be in the region of 300g per day.

What do you reckon? If anyone actually has successfully beaten their condition by following that advice then they were touched by the hand of god.

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Sunday 11th November 2018
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
Robertj21a said:
Not a single one ?
Well the only way to reverse diabetes (no symptoms no medication) is too drastically reduce or even completely eliminate carbohydrate from the diet. Typically as low as 20g per day. The NHS advice to all diabetics is to base your diet on carbohydrate, which would typically be in the region of 300g per day.

What do you reckon? If anyone actually has successfully beaten their condition by following that advice then they were touched by the hand of god.
That's not at all what you stated !

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Sunday 11th November 2018
quotequote all
Well I’m not a religious man but you’re free to believe as you wish biggrin

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
Well the only way to reverse diabetes (no symptoms no medication) is to drastically reduce or even completely eliminate carbohydrate from the diet. Typically as low as 20g per day. The NHS advice to all diabetics is to base their diet on carbohydrate, which would typically be in the region of 300g per day.

What do you reckon? If anyone actually has successfully beaten their condition by following that advice then they were touched by the hand of god.
Or just get in good shape. Show me someone with 10% body fat, visible abs and type 2 diabetes.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
Reverse. Not prevent.

ETA: physical activity and staying in shape will go a very long way to helping keep blood glucose under control and improve insulin sensitivity. However, alone, it absolutely will not reverse an already well established diabetes condition. But it will be a huge help when accompanied with an extreme carbohydrate restriction.

Edited by Kenny Powers on Monday 12th November 08:48

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Monday 12th November 2018
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I've managed to get my Hba1c levels down to safe levels and still eat carbs, just a lot less than I used to and in different forms. My diet is a better balance than it was before with a bit less alcohol too.
As was correctly stated back there by someone, there is no point in setting yourself unachievable goals, you just make yourself miserable, bitter and twisted.
You need to support going carb free, high fat, protein and veg with a heck of lot of exercise, I haven't the time nor inclination for that much so found what suited me.
It isn't difficult to buy a carbs n calories book, find out what you're supposed to be eating and alter your diet accordingly.

LordGrover

33,531 posts

211 months

Monday 12th November 2018
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Robertj21a said:
zygalski said:
These tribal folk are also a hell of a lot more active than your average T2 Westerner.
If you're constantly on the move, you can pretty much eat what you want.
Also, what is the average life expectancy in say a modern Amazonian tribe?
If they don't have access to modern medicine then I don't see any reasonable comparison can be made between their lifestyles and ours.
It's another pointless comparison.

What we should be looking at is the lifestyle of the majority of those who develop T2 diabetes.
What are they doing differently than those of a similar age who don't have the disease?

Trying to fix the problem after years of over eating, over drinking & not enough exercise is one thing.
Better in my opinion to not get a lifestyle disease like this in the first instance.
I only know a few with diabetes 2 but the common denominator is very obvious, mainly just eating/drinking FAR too much. Lack of exercise is also notable, but the overeating is just so blatantly obvious.
Have you considered they eat too much and are sedentary because they have type 2 diabetes, and not the other way around?

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 12th November 2018
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^^Make that three people biggrin

didelydoo

5,528 posts

209 months

Monday 12th November 2018
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LordGrover said:
Have you considered they eat too much and are sedentary because they have type 2 diabetes, and not the other way around?
with regards to this- I posted this on one of the various LCHF threads:


[i]Exercise greatly improves insulin sensitivity- this is well established.
Bad diet- ie, prolonged and sustained over eating of processed carbs has a huge impact on insulin resistance.
genetic predisposition- which is triggered by the above.

Taken together you could suppose that sedentary, lazy people, with a bad diet comprising of excessive carbs are going to have problems. They are not healthy. As a result of this unhealthiness, they develop insulin resistance as it triggers there genetic predisposition. That is cause, and effect right there. They're on the path to ill health before insulin become an issue.

further reading, should you dispute- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC37829...

I'm not saying this is true in every case, but i'll bet most who become diabetic weren't living the healthy lifestyle of eating healthy food and exercising regularly[/i]

It's not victim blaming either, the vast majority of those that become diabetic, eat too many processed carbs, and are sedentary/lazy. In the VAST majority of cases, active people who do not over eat processed crap, simply do not become diabetic- and they can have plenty carbs in their diet (there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule still applies to the vast majority).

I'm sure this will be disputed, and I'm happy to be proven wrong. It's also off topic, but there you go.


Edited by didelydoo on Monday 12th November 11:33

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
LordGrover said:
Robertj21a said:
zygalski said:
These tribal folk are also a hell of a lot more active than your average T2 Westerner.
If you're constantly on the move, you can pretty much eat what you want.
Also, what is the average life expectancy in say a modern Amazonian tribe?
If they don't have access to modern medicine then I don't see any reasonable comparison can be made between their lifestyles and ours.
It's another pointless comparison.

What we should be looking at is the lifestyle of the majority of those who develop T2 diabetes.
What are they doing differently than those of a similar age who don't have the disease?

Trying to fix the problem after years of over eating, over drinking & not enough exercise is one thing.
Better in my opinion to not get a lifestyle disease like this in the first instance.
I only know a few with diabetes 2 but the common denominator is very obvious, mainly just eating/drinking FAR too much. Lack of exercise is also notable, but the overeating is just so blatantly obvious.
Have you considered they eat too much and are sedentary because they have type 2 diabetes, and not the other way around?
Not sure how that can be. They've always stuffed themselves with cakes and carbohydrates. Only recently have they been diagnosed as diabetic.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
Diabetes is a symptom of metabolic syndrome that can take decades to creep up on people, and even longer to be diagnosed. It’s lazy thinking to assume one knows what caused the condition.

Being frank though this has all been endlessly discussed before. But as per the norm, people who know little about the subject matter attempt to assert their views as fact upon those that are well informed.

As the old saying goes - you can explain something to someone but you can’t understand it for them biggrin

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
Diabetes is a symptom of metabolic syndrome that can take decades to creep up on people, and even longer to be diagnosed. It’s lazy thinking to assume one knows what caused the condition.

Being frank though this has all been endlessly discussed before. But as per the norm, people who know little about the subject matter attempt to assert their views as fact upon those that are well informed.

As the old saying goes - you can explain something to someone but you can’t understand it for them biggrin
Ah, right. So only 2-3 people understand diabetes 2, the consultants are talking rubbish and, presumably, stuffing yourself with cakes and carbohydrates won't do any harm......

I know that's not what you are saying but it sounds not too far out !

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
laugh

Let’s please not lose sight of the original point made by Lord Grover. I will stop short of personal insults here, but honestly, reading comprehension is a critical skill if you’re going to debate people wink

didelydoo

5,528 posts

209 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
Diabetes is a symptom of metabolic syndrome that can take decades to creep up on people, and even longer to be diagnosed. It’s lazy thinking to assume one knows what caused the condition.

Being frank though this has all been endlessly discussed before. But as per the norm, people who know little about the subject matter attempt to assert their views as fact upon those that are well informed.

As the old saying goes - you can explain something to someone but you can’t understand it for them biggrin
What ever makes you happy Kenny. Metabolic Syndrome is closely linked to overweight or obesity and inactivity- ergo, you'd think if these weren't an issue....... Years of st diet and inactivity take it's toll.

But it's insulin resistance, caused by genetics that makes you fat in the first place- you say, you've got the cart before the horse you'll tell me.....
- Or is this not triggered by prolonged over consumption of processed carbs and inactivity, i.e. - laziness and greediness. That's why it takes so long to creep up- because the human body can take years of abuse before it breaks.

Just because you have it, and have read a bunch of pro-LCHF books does not make you an expert over others. Perhaps if you were more active, and watched your diet in the first instance it wouldn't be an issue now? Who knows.

You have interpreted the evidence one way, others interpreted another. You presume you're right, because it fits you're narrative.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that the majority of people who eat carbs in a balanced way and exercise plenty just don't become diabetic- now if it's a genetic predisposition that you can't avoid, how can this be the case? Or is it entirely avoidable if you eat healthy and exercise?



Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
didelydoo said:
What ever makes you happy Kenny. Metabolic Syndrome is closely linked to overweight or obesity and inactivity- ergo, you'd think if these weren't an issue....... Years of st diet and inactivity take it's toll.

But it's insulin resistance, caused by genetics that makes you fat in the first place- you say, you've got the cart before the horse you'll tell me.....
- Or is this not triggered by prolonged over consumption of processed carbs and inactivity, i.e. - laziness and greediness. That's why it takes so long to creep up- because the human body can take years of abuse before breaks.

Just because you have it, and have read a bunch of pro-LCHF books does not make you an expert over others. Perhaps if you were more active, and watched you're diet in the first instance it wouldn't be an issue now? Who knows.

You have interpreted the evidence one way, others interpreted another. You presume you're right, because it fits you're narrative.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that the majority of people who eat carbs in a balanced way and exercise plenty just don't become diabetic- now if it's a genetic predisposition that you can't avoid, how can this be the case? Or is it entirely avoidable if you eat healthy and exercise?
That’s all well and good, and I don’t disagree with many of your points. But we can be sure of one thing - I absolutely know more about reversing diabetes than anyone else currently participating in this discussion thumbup

LordGrover

33,531 posts

211 months

Monday 12th November 2018
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for n=1

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Monday 12th November 2018
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
laugh

Let’s please not lose sight of the original point made by Lord Grover. I will stop short of personal insults here, but honestly, reading comprehension is a critical skill if you’re going to debate people wink
Also to not lose a key point, which is that my initial comments were in response to 'What should modern man be eating' - not specifically on how to reverse diabetes.