Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
Discussion
Interesting to see an article in the paper today about the LowCarbProgram app:-
https://www.lowcarbprogram.com/
https://www.lowcarbprogram.com/
A while back I was warned about the risk of diabetes and should change my diet, lose weight, try to exercise more (arthritis makes that difficult) so I focussed on diet, not necessarily to lose weight but to get my HbA1C down. In November 2017 it was 6.6% (diabetic), in August 2018 it was 6.2% (prediabetes). in December 2018 it was 5.5% (normal).
How I did it was by reducing alcohol, cutting out snacks, eating more fruit and vegetables, reducing portion sizes - nothing extreme at all. I log everything I eat in the 'Lose It' app and doing that several times a day makes me think much more about what I'm eating, how much I'm eating and what it contains. A side benefit is that I'm gradually losing weight and that, in turn, is helping my arthritis. Very much a win-win situation.
How I did it was by reducing alcohol, cutting out snacks, eating more fruit and vegetables, reducing portion sizes - nothing extreme at all. I log everything I eat in the 'Lose It' app and doing that several times a day makes me think much more about what I'm eating, how much I'm eating and what it contains. A side benefit is that I'm gradually losing weight and that, in turn, is helping my arthritis. Very much a win-win situation.
Badda said:
As a slight aside, it's a sad reflection on us that 'eat more fruit and veg, don't eat too much and don't drink too much alcohol' is being passed around by adults as advice when children know this stuff. We're (humans) are so crap at looking after ourselves.
When I was growing up rationing was still in force and 'eating well' meant getting a full plate, irrespective of contents. We were given daily doses of cod liver oil, malt extract and vitamin D to supplement poor diets. Diseases such as diptheria, rickets, polio, scarlet fever and whooping cough (which nearly finished me off) were common.I see quite a lot of chubby children waddling to school each morning and think we've swapped one set of health issues for another with obesity and diabetes now significant (and largely avoidable) ones.
Riley Blue said:
When I was growing up rationing was still in force and 'eating well' meant getting a full plate, irrespective of contents. We were given daily doses of cod liver oil, malt extract and vitamin D to supplement poor diets. Diseases such as diptheria, rickets, polio, scarlet fever and whooping cough (which nearly finished me off) were common.
I see quite a lot of chubby children waddling to school each morning and think we've swapped one set of health issues for another with obesity and diabetes now significant (and largely avoidable) ones.
Don't know if you are watching the Go Back in Time series covering Schools in this series. Last one was the 60s. School lunch was the most incredible amount of carb laden stodge, with a bit of watery cabbage the only veg.I see quite a lot of chubby children waddling to school each morning and think we've swapped one set of health issues for another with obesity and diabetes now significant (and largely avoidable) ones.
FiF said:
Riley Blue said:
When I was growing up rationing was still in force and 'eating well' meant getting a full plate, irrespective of contents. We were given daily doses of cod liver oil, malt extract and vitamin D to supplement poor diets. Diseases such as diptheria, rickets, polio, scarlet fever and whooping cough (which nearly finished me off) were common.
I see quite a lot of chubby children waddling to school each morning and think we've swapped one set of health issues for another with obesity and diabetes now significant (and largely avoidable) ones.
Don't know if you are watching the Go Back in Time series covering Schools in this series. Last one was the 60s. School lunch was the most incredible amount of carb laden stodge, with a bit of watery cabbage the only veg.I see quite a lot of chubby children waddling to school each morning and think we've swapped one set of health issues for another with obesity and diabetes now significant (and largely avoidable) ones.
FiF said:
Don't know if you are watching the Go Back in Time series covering Schools in this series. Last one was the 60s. School lunch was the most incredible amount of carb laden stodge, with a bit of watery cabbage the only veg.
I would say the almost total lack of exercise and, more generally, movement is an even bigger problem. Young 'uns these days must be the weakest, slowest and most under-muscled teenagers and 20-somethings for many decades.grumbledoak said:
Good question, I'm assuming mmol/l if it's done by my Doctor?Kenny Powers said:
And no one should ‘avoid’ protein. It’s an essential macronutrient that you’ll die without 
Perhaps I should have phrased that as I haven't limited my protein intake. I keep cattle and pigs and eat a lot of meatRiley Blue said:
A while back I was warned about the risk of diabetes and should change my diet, lose weight, try to exercise more (arthritis makes that difficult) so I focussed on diet, not necessarily to lose weight but to get my HbA1C down. In November 2017 it was 6.6% (diabetic), in August 2018 it was 6.2% (prediabetes). in December 2018 it was 5.5% (normal).
How I did it was by reducing alcohol, cutting out snacks, eating more fruit and vegetables, reducing portion sizes - nothing extreme at all. I log everything I eat in the 'Lose It' app and doing that several times a day makes me think much more about what I'm eating, how much I'm eating and what it contains. A side benefit is that I'm gradually losing weight and that, in turn, is helping my arthritis. Very much a win-win situation.
I managed this for 18 months post type 2 diagnosis then, for whatever reason, things went awry. What Riley says is right on the button. Don't eat loads of stuff that is bad for you (everyone knows what is bad for them, right?). Easy on the carbs (take a quarter of what you usually have!) and move around more. It is really quite simple but life sometimes gets in the way and things get in the way.How I did it was by reducing alcohol, cutting out snacks, eating more fruit and vegetables, reducing portion sizes - nothing extreme at all. I log everything I eat in the 'Lose It' app and doing that several times a day makes me think much more about what I'm eating, how much I'm eating and what it contains. A side benefit is that I'm gradually losing weight and that, in turn, is helping my arthritis. Very much a win-win situation.
I now find myself in week three of the NHS run very low calorie diet, hoping that my diabetes will go into remission. I had become sedentary and had put much of my earlier weight back on. I wasn't in a healthy place at all and I needed the kickstart that the diet offers. Thereafter I will reapply my former attitude and hopefully all will be well. The weight loss was over one stone in the first week and 4 lbs in the second. My back pain diminished considerably, as did the strain on my joints and arthritic ankles. Swimming started this weekend with two visits to the local pool to do lengths. I have a feeling that all will be fine.
As others have said, the VLCD is not a panacea and there is the possibility of weight gain but the NHS keep a very close eye on you during the process. It is well managed. Anyone who fails massively be regaining all the weight has simply not listened during the 14 months (yes!) of monitoring that we go through.
Well i'm a year in and seem to have cracked it. Apologies for some of the nomenclature and not remembering exact figures, but I don't have much of a healthy interest in this thing (nor a good memory), it's just something I had to sort out.
You see, I enjoy eating...
I was diagnosed with it and had gone slightly into dangerous territory, saw the nurse at the surgery who took samples and gave me some scare stories, also was given some bad advice on here (like not eating carrots, cuttting out carbs completely :rolleyes etc so crapped myself and went to the extreme of cutting out anything enjoyable from my diet and made myself miserable. I went on the NHS 'Desmond' day course which was enlightening.
Went back to see the nurse for an interim, Hb1c had come down to the safe side and she asks how I am: "f
king miserable". So she then backtracks about all the stuff she told me not to eat and said I can eat it, just not as much which made more sense.
So now I do have a big mac n fries (not the sugary drink) maximum one a week, fried fish with a few chips occasionally, swapped my evening crisps for peanuts (I still do have the occasional bag of crisps, but nowhere near as much as before) sweeteners in coffee, 'no added sugar' cordials, go out for a curry and eat rice with my meal. Cut down on booze to a one night on, one off regime (3 off nights per week) and still eat pizzas, but make my own so I can control the ingredients.
Hb1c has continued to drop.
There's the background, now the interesting bit.
I picked up a fish pie cheap from those villainous wkers that are Tesco and cooked it up last night. As you can imagine it's pretty much 80% potato with a little seafood and some white sauce, definitely not what I should be eating (nor do I normally). I cooked up some 'above ground' veg and we split the lot unequally between us (2 thirds for me). I also had some very strong home made cider afterwards. She isn't T2D.
We both stabbed ourselves with the sampler thing and took readings.
Both 5.2 ish before,
half hour after food only 7.5,
another hr and with booze both 7.6,
before we went to bed after more booze and cashew nuts we were both the same again at 7.5.
There were some slight variances between us obviously, but we're only talking about .1 or .2.
I was expecting my numbers to rise as I was told my body couldn't process the sugar anymore, but it seems it is handling these bad things and it isn't effecting my blood sugars.
I'm definitely not advising doing this, or will slip back into it myself either, but it does appear that my body has fixed itself somewhat from my improved, but not obsessive diet.
Still work to do, mainly finding more interesting yet healthy things to take to work to eat as I'm thoroughly bored with salads and chicken.
You see, I enjoy eating...
I was diagnosed with it and had gone slightly into dangerous territory, saw the nurse at the surgery who took samples and gave me some scare stories, also was given some bad advice on here (like not eating carrots, cuttting out carbs completely :rolleyes etc
so crapped myself and went to the extreme of cutting out anything enjoyable from my diet and made myself miserable. I went on the NHS 'Desmond' day course which was enlightening.Went back to see the nurse for an interim, Hb1c had come down to the safe side and she asks how I am: "f
king miserable". So she then backtracks about all the stuff she told me not to eat and said I can eat it, just not as much which made more sense.So now I do have a big mac n fries (not the sugary drink) maximum one a week, fried fish with a few chips occasionally, swapped my evening crisps for peanuts (I still do have the occasional bag of crisps, but nowhere near as much as before) sweeteners in coffee, 'no added sugar' cordials, go out for a curry and eat rice with my meal. Cut down on booze to a one night on, one off regime (3 off nights per week) and still eat pizzas, but make my own so I can control the ingredients.
Hb1c has continued to drop.
There's the background, now the interesting bit.
I picked up a fish pie cheap from those villainous w
kers that are Tesco and cooked it up last night. As you can imagine it's pretty much 80% potato with a little seafood and some white sauce, definitely not what I should be eating (nor do I normally). I cooked up some 'above ground' veg and we split the lot unequally between us (2 thirds for me). I also had some very strong home made cider afterwards. She isn't T2D.We both stabbed ourselves with the sampler thing and took readings.
Both 5.2 ish before,
half hour after food only 7.5,
another hr and with booze both 7.6,
before we went to bed after more booze and cashew nuts we were both the same again at 7.5.
There were some slight variances between us obviously, but we're only talking about .1 or .2.
I was expecting my numbers to rise as I was told my body couldn't process the sugar anymore, but it seems it is handling these bad things and it isn't effecting my blood sugars.
I'm definitely not advising doing this, or will slip back into it myself either, but it does appear that my body has fixed itself somewhat from my improved, but not obsessive diet.
Still work to do, mainly finding more interesting yet healthy things to take to work to eat as I'm thoroughly bored with salads and chicken.
Edited by 227bhp on Thursday 28th February 12:17
C Lee Farquar said:
My blood sugar levels are quite often lower than my wife's after the same meal, although she will often have eaten other things before the meal. She's younger and not diabetic.
Anecdotal, of course.
Maybe an interesting experiment would be to eat the same things for X amount of time and monitor yourselves for longer like our rough (but short) test. Personally I don't know what the results mean 100%, but it doesn't look bad and up for debate.Anecdotal, of course.
I'd like to seek advice from an expert, but not sure how to do that right now.
Well, after my annual MoT test last October I got a letter from the doc warning me about my h1abc level and warned at risk of T2 diagnosis.
Also offered me to go on a trial of support group etc.
Decided after discussion, right or wrong, to do it myself. In July this year went to see the GP over another matter and she raised the issue that had lost about 13% of body weight and was this intentional.
Yes it was, explained why, how I had been doing it, essentially calorie counting, cutting down on carbs without going for keto, and certainly cutting out or down to almost nothing all the easy wins, biscuits (big weakness) , ice cream, chocolate, and sugar. But essentially nothing otherwise extreme, just normal(ish) diet with moderation all round.
Got my results back, h1abc which had been 46 mmol/mol at the time of the warning now down to 37, lower than it was 5 years back. Blood pressure back to normal, cholesterol again lower than it's been in along time. Also fasting glucose level completely normal.
Chuffed, now determined to keep it up.
Also offered me to go on a trial of support group etc.
Decided after discussion, right or wrong, to do it myself. In July this year went to see the GP over another matter and she raised the issue that had lost about 13% of body weight and was this intentional.
Yes it was, explained why, how I had been doing it, essentially calorie counting, cutting down on carbs without going for keto, and certainly cutting out or down to almost nothing all the easy wins, biscuits (big weakness) , ice cream, chocolate, and sugar. But essentially nothing otherwise extreme, just normal(ish) diet with moderation all round.
Got my results back, h1abc which had been 46 mmol/mol at the time of the warning now down to 37, lower than it was 5 years back. Blood pressure back to normal, cholesterol again lower than it's been in along time. Also fasting glucose level completely normal.
Chuffed, now determined to keep it up.
I think I'm in big trouble, any help or advice much appreciated.
My background:
2005, viral infection myocardial scarring (damaged heart muscle) unknown at the time but was a timebomb waiting to go off in my heart.
2013 Pt1, cardiac arrest, two and a bit weeks in hospital and came home with a defib / pacemaker embedded in my chest
2013 Pt2, another cardiac arrest, zapped back to life by defib, few days in hospital then home on a low dose beta blocker.
2014 Pt1, another CA, ZAP! another few days in hospital, home on an increased dose of betas.
2014 Pt2, another CA, ZAP! a few days in the local hospital then a transfer to the Brompton where a catheter ablation was attempted but failed. Home having switched to another beta blocker at an elephant tranquilising dose and also a new anti-arrhythmic drug. All good...
2017, Out of blue and just when I thought things were good, another CA! Hospital and home on the same elephant dose of beta blockers and switched to a really nasty toxic anti-arrhythmic drug (Amiodarone)
When you take Amio you have to undergo six monthly blood tests to see if it is killing you, yes really! It is quite funny really, a drug that prevents your heart killing you quickly at the same time can kill you slowly. The ways it tries to get you are cruel and unusual as well, lungs, liver, thyroid, eyes and on top of that an extreme sensitivity to UV which makes summer rather tedious.
Anyway, the elephant tranquilising dose of beta blockers, they slow you down and coupled with the events above a bit of comfort eating was done between 2014 and now.
During the course of the above I've gone from a well built chap, but NOT a company director standing at 6'2" to a rather fat c-unit, from hovering about 95-100kg I'm currently up at 124kg! Currently age 49 and 3/4's for reference.
The six monthly blood tests over the years resulted in sometimes my liver being under attack from the Amio and sometimes my Thyroid. The last three sets of bloods have from "you had better watch it, your sugar levels are high" to "you are pre-diabetic" to last Wednesday where "you are now diabetic".
Like a donkey I ignored it and now, to coin a phrase, I am where I am.
I don't know what the unit of measurement is (sugar cubes maybe?) but six months ago I was at 47 (right on the cusp) and am now at 53.
From Wednesday until now I've been all over the internet doing research and off the back of the GP offering advice at the time she phoned with the results I've been on a Low Carb diet, in fact no carbs as far as I'm aware. As this is all new to me and such is the volume of information out there I'm both overwhelmed and obviously worried.
A few questions:
1, What is the measurement range I've been given, I've read most of this thread and the measurement units seem to be all different?
2, Whatever the units are, how bad is a 53? Am I totally screwed?
3, I think it might prove to be more difficult for me to shed the timber due to the high dose of beta blockers, anyone else on them and had success?
4, Should I tell work?
5, Since starting the low carb diet on Wednesday, I've lost 2kgs and am now 121kg and already feel better. The weight loss is undeniable but is the feeling of feeling better likely to be a placebo effect or real?
6, My GP suggested Metaformin which I declined. If things don't work on the keto and if I did start it, is it true that once you are on it, you are on it for life and if you are on it does it make breaking the cycle, via keto, more difficult / dangerous?
And a few answers and some more context:
i, My GP fully admits my heart issues are way beyond her knowledge.
ii, Seeing or contacting my Cardiologist is extremely difficult and it is likely that if I did caution would be errred with regards to keto, again does anyone have any experiences?
iii, Despite my GP freely admitted no knowledge about my heart she did suggest low carb / keto and I'm aware that my impossible to get hold of cardiologist should be the one I ask.
iv, There will be speeling mistakes, gramatical erros and some nonsense in this post, I'm tired.
v, I've been out on the bike this last few (dull and cooler) days and am doing about 10 miles each time. Weather permitting I'll aim to step this up to 10 miles every day.
vi, Running is out of the question for me but brisk walking is do-able to a degree. Cycling or walking?
vii, My max heart rate is chemically governed to about 115bpm due to the beta blockers so bonkers exercise isn't possible, when I do the ten miler bike rides my average speed is a paltry 10mph'ish.
viii, My ambitious target is getting 10-15kg off quickly, before Christmas, so 123kg to 108kg'ish and then down to 70kg'ish long term. Will the quick 10-15kg likely see me out of the danger zone?
ix, I don't drink alcohol at all and haven't for at least three years.
Thanks for listening, any advice or pointers more than welcomed.
Writing this has been quite a cathartic experience but I'm still freaked about this news, although in hind site it was obvious. I have a lot to learn and understand, help
My background:
2005, viral infection myocardial scarring (damaged heart muscle) unknown at the time but was a timebomb waiting to go off in my heart.
2013 Pt1, cardiac arrest, two and a bit weeks in hospital and came home with a defib / pacemaker embedded in my chest
2013 Pt2, another cardiac arrest, zapped back to life by defib, few days in hospital then home on a low dose beta blocker.
2014 Pt1, another CA, ZAP! another few days in hospital, home on an increased dose of betas.
2014 Pt2, another CA, ZAP! a few days in the local hospital then a transfer to the Brompton where a catheter ablation was attempted but failed. Home having switched to another beta blocker at an elephant tranquilising dose and also a new anti-arrhythmic drug. All good...
2017, Out of blue and just when I thought things were good, another CA! Hospital and home on the same elephant dose of beta blockers and switched to a really nasty toxic anti-arrhythmic drug (Amiodarone)
When you take Amio you have to undergo six monthly blood tests to see if it is killing you, yes really! It is quite funny really, a drug that prevents your heart killing you quickly at the same time can kill you slowly. The ways it tries to get you are cruel and unusual as well, lungs, liver, thyroid, eyes and on top of that an extreme sensitivity to UV which makes summer rather tedious.
Anyway, the elephant tranquilising dose of beta blockers, they slow you down and coupled with the events above a bit of comfort eating was done between 2014 and now.
During the course of the above I've gone from a well built chap, but NOT a company director standing at 6'2" to a rather fat c-unit, from hovering about 95-100kg I'm currently up at 124kg! Currently age 49 and 3/4's for reference.
The six monthly blood tests over the years resulted in sometimes my liver being under attack from the Amio and sometimes my Thyroid. The last three sets of bloods have from "you had better watch it, your sugar levels are high" to "you are pre-diabetic" to last Wednesday where "you are now diabetic".
Like a donkey I ignored it and now, to coin a phrase, I am where I am.
I don't know what the unit of measurement is (sugar cubes maybe?) but six months ago I was at 47 (right on the cusp) and am now at 53.
From Wednesday until now I've been all over the internet doing research and off the back of the GP offering advice at the time she phoned with the results I've been on a Low Carb diet, in fact no carbs as far as I'm aware. As this is all new to me and such is the volume of information out there I'm both overwhelmed and obviously worried.
A few questions:
1, What is the measurement range I've been given, I've read most of this thread and the measurement units seem to be all different?
2, Whatever the units are, how bad is a 53? Am I totally screwed?
3, I think it might prove to be more difficult for me to shed the timber due to the high dose of beta blockers, anyone else on them and had success?
4, Should I tell work?
5, Since starting the low carb diet on Wednesday, I've lost 2kgs and am now 121kg and already feel better. The weight loss is undeniable but is the feeling of feeling better likely to be a placebo effect or real?
6, My GP suggested Metaformin which I declined. If things don't work on the keto and if I did start it, is it true that once you are on it, you are on it for life and if you are on it does it make breaking the cycle, via keto, more difficult / dangerous?
And a few answers and some more context:
i, My GP fully admits my heart issues are way beyond her knowledge.
ii, Seeing or contacting my Cardiologist is extremely difficult and it is likely that if I did caution would be errred with regards to keto, again does anyone have any experiences?
iii, Despite my GP freely admitted no knowledge about my heart she did suggest low carb / keto and I'm aware that my impossible to get hold of cardiologist should be the one I ask.
iv, There will be speeling
mistakes, gramatical erros and some nonsense in this post, I'm tired.v, I've been out on the bike this last few (dull and cooler) days and am doing about 10 miles each time. Weather permitting I'll aim to step this up to 10 miles every day.
vi, Running is out of the question for me but brisk walking is do-able to a degree. Cycling or walking?
vii, My max heart rate is chemically governed to about 115bpm due to the beta blockers so bonkers exercise isn't possible, when I do the ten miler bike rides my average speed is a paltry 10mph'ish.
viii, My ambitious target is getting 10-15kg off quickly, before Christmas, so 123kg to 108kg'ish and then down to 70kg'ish long term. Will the quick 10-15kg likely see me out of the danger zone?
ix, I don't drink alcohol at all and haven't for at least three years.
Thanks for listening, any advice or pointers more than welcomed.
Writing this has been quite a cathartic experience but I'm still freaked about this news, although in hind site it was obvious. I have a lot to learn and understand, help
Edited by colin_p on Sunday 16th August 01:54
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