How much do you drink, honestly?

[TheJimi]

I’m always VERY wary about dishing out advice to strangers where, if my advice was acted upon, it would represent a large change in that person’s life.

So, with that said, you know I’ve been reading your posts about your drinking, TRD.  It’s hard not to arrive at the conclusion that you WANT to change, but your environment and/or surrounding relationships aren’t conducive.  You’ve always struck me as being a genuinely decent guy, I don’t think I’ve ever read a post of yours in all the time you’ve been on PH, that’s made me think badly of you

(apart from EVERY new car/thing you get being the best thing since sliced bread   )

So, I’m gonna nail my colours to the mast here, and say that, imo, you should set the girlfriend an ultimatum: “start screwing the head or I’m out”. 

No messing about, get a line drawn and if she doesn’t step up, or even attempt to make a change, you need to bail.  Otherwise you’re just gonna get dragged ever further down.

[TameRacingDriver]

The jiffle king said:

TameRacingDriver - I cannot personally relate to your situation but I've watched this thread and can see that you have a desire to change your life but it's hard to do with the other influences around you.

I don't know what you are going through but the way you write the story says that you are trying to change and support would be welcome. I don't know how you get that support, maybe a friend who you have to drive to see, maybe a hobby outside of the house where you have to drive (Car club, RC car club, whatever you like doing)

Please keep sharing as I think this thread has really helped many people look at their decisions around alcohol and whilst many choose to continue, some are making decisions to reduce their intake.

I wish you well

Thanks mate. This has been a life long battle for me (since early 20s, now 39), I am definitely what you would call an 'addict' ever since an early age (I drank, smoked, snorted, inhaled whatever I could get my hands on), and I will certainly continue to update this thread. I am not overly proud and if my posts help others then that makes me thing that if nothing else I am doing some good to others as well as getting my own thoughts off my chest

rossub said:

Is she drinking that much every night?

In my book, 2 bottles of red wine a night would put her firmly into the alcoholic category. Her topping you up is an attempt to make herself feel better and not be 'alone' with her problem.

Mostly, yes. Basically she is addicted to red wine. I have put it to her lots of times she is an alcoholic, but she denies it of course. I have even admitted to her that I am also, in my own way, an alcoholic but even this did not register with her.

The other day we had a bit of a falling out. One night we decided we would have some wine so she bought some. I was going to have 1 bottle, but as usual, she bought way more than was needed, so 4 bottles were bought. Come about 10:30pm and I finished my bottle and had enough, but she was well into her second by then. She decided that she would pour what was left in the second bottle into my glass (I didn't ask for it) and she said "don't worry it's only a tiny bit"... but of course that meant she had an excuse to open the 3rd bottle (her 3rd, our 4th).

She poured herself a glass, and I finished what was left in mine. She then said "do you want some more", while walking over to my glass with the full bottle... "No, I'm fine, I replied". She then poured some in anyway and said "don't have it if you don't want it". Well I didn't intend to go to bed for at least another hour and so I was already quite tipsy at that point and just went ahead and drank it anyway.

At some point we must have both fell asleep and I woke at 12:30 with some shocking heartburn, which up until then I hadn't had. I woke her up (glass nearly full) and off we went to bed.

I woke up that morning at 4:30am with terrible heartburn, I ate 12 renee's to try and get rid of it. Also had a stinking headache and didn't dare take anything for it because I'm aware that paracetemol is bad for your liver when you've been drinking and ibuprofen is harsh on the stomach and that didn't need any more brutalising.

I finally got up felt like crap, and had a full day at work to look forward to. It was at this moment I decided to give up the red wine....

So yes, I agree with you she has an alcohol problem, and she feels more guilty / ashamed when I don't drink with her. I also have found this very difficult because as an addict myself, having someone do the very thing you're addicted to while you're sat there trying to be good nearly impossible. I sometimes go to my man cave to sit on my own so I don't have to watch it. Smell it. Put up with the ste drunken crack.

TheJimi said:

I’m always VERY wary about dishing out advice to strangers where, if my advice was acted upon, it would represent a large change in that person’s life.

So, with that said, you know I’ve been reading your posts about your drinking, TRD.  It’s hard not to arrive at the conclusion that you WANT to change, but your environment and/or surrounding relationships aren’t conducive.  You’ve always struck me as being a genuinely decent guy, I don’t think I’ve ever read a post of yours in all the time you’ve been on PH, that’s made me think badly of you

(apart from EVERY new car/thing you get being the best thing since sliced bread   )

So, I’m gonna nail my colours to the mast here, and say that, imo, you should set the girlfriend an ultimatum: “start screwing the head or I’m out”. 

No messing about, get a line drawn and if she doesn’t step up, or even attempt to make a change, you need to bail.  Otherwise you’re just gonna get dragged ever further down.

Aw thanks mate I wont be posting much about new cars now as I can't really afford anything new and the novelty has worn off anyway Seriously though thanks for all the kind words from all of you, I am actually genuinely touched that a bunch of strangers I've never met seem to care in their own way.

So, that morning I've just spoken about in response to rossub, we had an argument, and I basically told her that if things don't stop and soon, then we won't be renewing the rental on the place we're in now and we'll be going our own way.

We've had lots of arguments in the past, she promises to change, never does. She has again this time. We'll see what happens, but after years and years of this, I'm not hopeful at all, and in a way it might be for the best if it does end.

I do love her in so much that I care about her in a way any normal person would about someone who they've been with for a decade. However, I'm not in love with her. The alcohol thing is one factor, but frankly we're polar opposites as personalities. She is very much upper / middle class spoiled brat (dad was a mayor, lived in a huge house). She's got no backbone, no courage, no fight. I on the other hand, very much a working class lad, had as good an upbringing as I could have hoped for under the circumstances, credit to my parents they did well, but otherwise not an easy life. Was an only child, went to a rough school. My parents are also quite big drinkers so that had an effect too.

Personality wise, she is a lovely caring person, but she not half winds me up at times. I am, or can be, a fairly irritable guy who doesn't suffer fools, but generally I am (or like to think I am) a nice guy, laid back, live and let live... She just moans and bhes about things all the time, gets on my nerves, it really does. I do wonder if I'm irritable because of the drink but I'm not 100% sure on this, I've always been a little intolerant of annoying people!

I agree with you, the next 6 months are really make and break. She has been dragging me down for a while. In fact, I'd honestly say that if I had thought more of myself in the past I would have walked away a long time ago, but I have suffered with mild depression and anxiety my whole life and always thought I wasn't worthy to have a decent woman. I had crap luck with women (constantly rejected after one date or after a few weeks) and when she came along I was happy to feel wanted, but now I just feel as though I've "settled" for 2nd best, and now I'm stuck. I have debts and frankly, my life could have turned out a lot better if I'm honest. To be honest, I often wonder if part of the reason I drink is so she is more tolerable; I can't be bothered to argue when I'm wrecked.

Today though I am a different person, and I honestly cannot say that I want to put up with this for any longer. I have a plan, I want to be in my best ever shape by 40 (I have 9 months to make this happen). I want to be a good way into clearing the debts, and I want to be in control again, bossing my life and my career (which I've arguably not done as well at as I should at my age, probably because of my personal issues). If she is not a part of it then it's entirely down to her choosing the booze over me.

Making a break with red wine is me acknowledging that 1. I don't enjoy it like I used to and 2. It's like breaking away from her... i.e. we drank wine together. Now I'll still drink with her (on a weekend), but I wont drink the same (strong) drink, and try and remain in control.

I can't abide the hangovers, depression and heartburn any more. Honest to god, my life was starting to feel like a living hell at times and this could not continue. You're right she does talk the talk in terms of "supporting" me but by doing the very thing I have a problem with in front of me is not supporting me at all.

So, watch this space guys, the next 6 months WILL be transformative, one way or another. If I fail, I only have myself to blame for being spineless and a coward. I will keep those words in my head so that i do NOT fail.

[Robertj21a]

TameRacingDriver said:

Aw thanks mate I wont be posting much about new cars now as I can't really afford anything new and the novelty has worn off anyway Seriously though thanks for all the kind words from all of you, I am actually genuinely touched that a bunch of strangers I've never met seem to care in their own way.

So, that morning I've just spoken about in response to rossub, we had an argument, and I basically told her that if things don't stop and soon, then we won't be renewing the rental on the place we're in now and we'll be going our own way.

We've had lots of arguments in the past, she promises to change, never does. She has again this time. We'll see what happens, but after years and years of this, I'm not hopeful at all, and in a way it might be for the best if it does end.

I do love her in so much that I care about her in a way any normal person would about someone who they've been with for a decade. However, I'm not in love with her. The alcohol thing is one factor, but frankly we're polar opposites as personalities. She is very much upper / middle class spoiled brat (dad was a mayor, lived in a huge house). She's got no backbone, no courage, no fight. I on the other hand, very much a working class lad, had as good an upbringing as I could have hoped for under the circumstances, credit to my parents they did well, but otherwise not an easy life. Was an only child, went to a rough school. My parents are also quite big drinkers so that had an effect too.

Personality wise, she is a lovely caring person, but she not half winds me up at times. I am, or can be, a fairly irritable guy who doesn't suffer fools, but generally I am (or like to think I am) a nice guy, laid back, live and let live... She just moans and bhes about things all the time, gets on my nerves, it really does. I do wonder if I'm irritable because of the drink but I'm not 100% sure on this, I've always been a little intolerant of annoying people!

I agree with you, the next 6 months are really make and break. She has been dragging me down for a while. In fact, I'd honestly say that if I had thought more of myself in the past I would have walked away a long time ago, but I have suffered with mild depression and anxiety my whole life and always thought I wasn't worthy to have a decent woman. I had crap luck with women (constantly rejected after one date or after a few weeks) and when she came along I was happy to feel wanted, but now I just feel as though I've "settled" for 2nd best, and now I'm stuck. I have debts and frankly, my life could have turned out a lot better if I'm honest. To be honest, I often wonder if part of the reason I drink is so she is more tolerable; I can't be bothered to argue when I'm wrecked.

Today though I am a different person, and I honestly cannot say that I want to put up with this for any longer. I have a plan, I want to be in my best ever shape by 40 (I have 9 months to make this happen). I want to be a good way into clearing the debts, and I want to be in control again, bossing my life and my career (which I've arguably not done as well at as I should at my age, probably because of my personal issues). If she is not a part of it then it's entirely down to her choosing the booze over me.

Making a break with red wine is me acknowledging that 1. I don't enjoy it like I used to and 2. It's like breaking away from her... i.e. we drank wine together. Now I'll still drink with her (on a weekend), but I wont drink the same (strong) drink, and try and remain in control.

I can't abide the hangovers, depression and heartburn any more. Honest to god, my life was starting to feel like a living hell at times and this could not continue. You're right she does talk the talk in terms of "supporting" me but by doing the very thing I have a problem with in front of me is not supporting me at all.

So, watch this space guys, the next 6 months WILL be transformative, one way or another. If I fail, I only have myself to blame for being spineless and a coward. I will keep those words in my head so that i do NOT fail.

Great to hear all of that. I haven't posted much on here lately but you've certainly been trying to identify where the problems lie, and analyse what can be done about it. I have to agree with you, and others, that it will be far more difficult to really change very much all the time that you're living with someone who is, essentially, an alcoholic. You've given it a good chance, over many years, but if you feel that you're now ready to move on then she has to change (unlikely) - or go.

[Integroo]

Just jumping into this thread, seems interesting. I think I drink too much, but not quite sure how too much.

Average is probably nothing Sunday - Wednesday (occasionally will have three or four beers on a Sunday or a Wednesday); few beers or a half bottle of wine and maybe a cocktail on a Thursday; two or three beers whilst I cook dinner on both a Friday and a Saturday, bottle of red or two shared with the missus over dinner (though in reality if we have two bottles I probably drink one and a half, she isn't a big drinker), couple of spirits or cocktails after dinner.

I feel that it is quite a lot but not into problem drinking territory. I certainly don't binge to blackout level anymore, like I did when I was a student. Occasionally (once a month if that) when I lived alone I'd end up drinking quite heavily on a weekday (bottle of wine and four or five whiskies) but I doubt I'll do that now I've moved in with my better half.

[dieselgrunt]

Your drinking around 23 units on fri and the same again on sat based on the above, plus the units on the other days. So you must be around the 70 unit mark per week at least.
The recommended weekly level is 14 units. I’d guess your health would be impacted if you kept up that level of drinking.

[rossub]

dieselgrunt said:

Your drinking around 23 units on fri and the same again on sat based on the above, plus the units on the other days. So you must be around the 70 unit mark per week at least.
The recommended weekly level is 14 units. I’d guess your health would be impacted if you kept up that level of drinking.

I really don’t think it’s fair to quote that pathetic 14 units on this thread, but yes 70+ units is way too much if it’s being done over a number of years.

TRD - the way you’ve ended up staying with your partner is very similar to me. I also had a lot of rejection in my late teens and early 20s, so was delighted at 23 when I found someone that stuck with me. She’s a lot older than me and the spark has well and truly gone after 18 years, though I do love her. Thankfully she doesn’t drink nearly as much as yours does, but probably would if I wasn’t there to influence her. As I’ve said earlier in the thread, I’m 55 units a week and she’s not far behind.

I can’t help but think you’re going to regret it if you don’t get out of there. It doesn’t look like she will change her ways and you’ll be stuck in a cycle of alcohol drinking until one of you drops. Harsh, but I know you’re already thinking along those lines. One life and all that.

[grumbledoak]

rossub said:

I really don’t think it’s fair to quote that pathetic 14 units on this thread, but yes 70+ units is way too much if it’s being done over a number of years.

Alcohol is a toxin, period. But that is a completely made up number, halved every generation by halfwits trying to scare the public into changing their behaviour, more because it is a task they have set themselves than because there is good evidence for the limit.

Scientism grinds my gears.

[Welshbeef]

dieselgrunt said:

Your drinking around 23 units on fri and the same again on sat based on the above, plus the units on the other days. So you must be around the 70 unit mark per week at least.
The recommended weekly level is 14 units. I’d guess your health would be impacted if you kept up that level of drinking.

Well many countries in the world recommended is 54 units a week (New Zealand being one).

We have no reason why the limit dropped from 28 to 14 no scientific facts to back it up and also why men and women’s limit is now identical (apart from the #me2).

So whilst yes 70 units week in week out might seem strong to many it’s not that that excessive relative to the rest of the world.

[TooMany2cvs]

Welshbeef said:

Well many countries in the world recommended is 54 units a week (New Zealand being one).

Nope...

https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/healthy-liv...

Their "standard drinks" are a bit larger than our units (although they do say 1 "standard drink" = 10ml @ 100% = 1 unit!)...
330ml @ 4% = 1 "standard drink" = 1.3 units
100ml @ 12.5% = 1 "standard drink" = 1.25 units
335ml @ 8% = 2.1 "standard drinks" = 2.7 units

Their recommendation is max 3 "standard drinks" = 4 units per day, max 15 "standard drinks" = 20 units per week, 2 alcohol-free days.

[Flibble]

TooMany2cvs said:

Nope...

https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/healthy-liv...

Their "standard drinks" are a bit larger than our units (although they do say 1 "standard drink" = 10ml @ 100% = 1 unit!)...
330ml @ 4% = 1 "standard drink" = 1.3 units
100ml @ 12.5% = 1 "standard drink" = 1.25 units
335ml @ 8% = 2.1 "standard drinks" = 2.7 units

Their recommendation is max 3 "standard drinks" = 4 units per day, max 15 "standard drinks" = 20 units per week, 2 alcohol-free days.

They say one standard drink is 10 grammes of alcohol (12.67 ml), not 10 ml, which is where the discrepancy comes from.

[TooMany2cvs]

Flibble said:

They say one standard drink is 10 grammes of alcohol (12.67 ml), not 10 ml, which is where the discrepancy comes from.

Ah, yes. Good spot.

[Welshbeef]

TooMany2cvs said:

Ah, yes. Good spot.

Still it’s multiples of he bizarre low U.K. limit.

[Integroo]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

Is it really the drink that puts on the weight or that fact the alcohol makes you then hungry so you eat more than you normally would?

Others state the drink stretches the stomach so it's not as simple as eating more.

So many conflicting reports and advice.

[grumbledoak]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Is it really the drink that puts on the weight or that fact the alcohol makes you then hungry so you eat more than you normally would?

"Beer belly" is pretty literal. It's over 200 kcals per pint, with no nutrients at all, on top of whatever you eat. So one pint a day is enough to be fat, and most daily drinkers will be on five pints or more. You don't need to overcomplicate it.

[Integroo]

[redacted]

[grumbledoak]

Integroo said:

Onions aren’t a toxin. Raspberries aren’t a toxin. Water isn’t a toxin.

If someone drinks 200 units a week they are likely to die a miserable early death in their thirties or forties from liver failure. Doesn’t sound very happy.

Six litres of water right now will kill you before breakfast tomorrow. Also from liver failure.

It's the dose that matters.

[Welshbeef]

Ok so I’m stopping tonight

Had 3 doombar and 1 medium glass of prosecco.

As in stopping no more tonight

[Flibble]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Is it really the drink that puts on the weight or that fact the alcohol makes you then hungry so you eat more than you normally would?

Others state the drink stretches the stomach so it's not as simple as eating more.

So many conflicting reports and advice.

Alcohol is a source of calories, 7 per gram in fact, so it's directly fattening. On top of that you have sugars in drinks and the appetite issues.

[gregs656]

[redacted]