People living longer... or not...?
Discussion
geeks said:
I assume the OP is a picture of perfect health and physique to be casting aspersions on 95% of the population of one area?
However it is true we lead more sedentary lifestyles than ever, however its not all "because pizza and computers" IME.
I live further now from a shop/supermarket and other conveniences/public services such as a Dr than ever before, where as I could walk to the shop for bread and milk it would now be 40 mins each way on foot or 2 minutes in the car. Dr is a 25 minute walk, fine when you are well, not so much when you aren't! Bus routes don't help either, public transport is worse now in our area than it has ever been, for example to get the bus to MK shopping center from my house take over an hour and two bus changes whereas in the car, 3 minutes door to parking space...
Unsure what any of that has got to do with the debate at all. It's almost as if you've got too much time and your hands and just want to post up rubbish for some reason.However it is true we lead more sedentary lifestyles than ever, however its not all "because pizza and computers" IME.
I live further now from a shop/supermarket and other conveniences/public services such as a Dr than ever before, where as I could walk to the shop for bread and milk it would now be 40 mins each way on foot or 2 minutes in the car. Dr is a 25 minute walk, fine when you are well, not so much when you aren't! Bus routes don't help either, public transport is worse now in our area than it has ever been, for example to get the bus to MK shopping center from my house take over an hour and two bus changes whereas in the car, 3 minutes door to parking space...
RDMcG said:
I have never understood the desire for massively long life. I have visited relatives I’m in retirement homes and communities (good ones), people with adequate resources.
Very few people over 80 are fully functional and fewer again at. 90
There are amazing treatments ,devices, walkers etc but it’s all quite depressing to have chronic aches and illness, cancers or dementia.
I am nearly 70 and able to function completely but I am clear that I will not be doing laps of the Nordschleife in one of my cars at 80.
I have always been clear that when I am no longer independent I am out of here.
As if now I have meaningful and remunerative work for which I travel frequently and follow my car hobby as I always have.
It is just a myth the old age is a bunch of vital energetic people going for hikes at weekends. The number one topic of conversation is health and at 80 it’s who died.
Definitely a non - starter. The mortality rate is 100% but you do get to choose your quality of life so I do not have the slightest interest in being some wheelchair bound centenarian wheezing to blow out a candle while beaming young relatives congratulate me on my longevity.
As others have said it will blow up the health system. But also the pension system. Actually cheaper for society if people die younger. Bring on the hamburgers and emancipate the cigarette
I
At the age of 20 it's hard to imagine being 40 but when you get there it just looks better than being 60. Very few people over 80 are fully functional and fewer again at. 90
There are amazing treatments ,devices, walkers etc but it’s all quite depressing to have chronic aches and illness, cancers or dementia.
I am nearly 70 and able to function completely but I am clear that I will not be doing laps of the Nordschleife in one of my cars at 80.
I have always been clear that when I am no longer independent I am out of here.
As if now I have meaningful and remunerative work for which I travel frequently and follow my car hobby as I always have.
It is just a myth the old age is a bunch of vital energetic people going for hikes at weekends. The number one topic of conversation is health and at 80 it’s who died.
Definitely a non - starter. The mortality rate is 100% but you do get to choose your quality of life so I do not have the slightest interest in being some wheelchair bound centenarian wheezing to blow out a candle while beaming young relatives congratulate me on my longevity.
As others have said it will blow up the health system. But also the pension system. Actually cheaper for society if people die younger. Bring on the hamburgers and emancipate the cigarette
I
When you're in a wheelchair it'll probably look better than the box that comes after it and you'll hang on as long as you can.
I'm sure there's point where any of us would have had enough but you can't pre-judge when it would be by looking at others in those situations.
Definitely not hanging on as long as I can. Since I was about 15 I believed that the quality of life trumped length any time. Have long ago written DNRs into my will and will certainly refuse heroic treatments in order to live in a massively diminished state. Where I live is liberal about assisted end of life. It is not the case that everyone’s attitude changes as they age and they just want to hang on. Some do and will fight for every miserable painwracked day as is their right, and fair play to them.
I am crystal clear and live in excellent health. No medications. I am equally unsentimental about my options and will exercise them unhesitatingly.
I am crystal clear and live in excellent health. No medications. I am equally unsentimental about my options and will exercise them unhesitatingly.
Long Drax said:
Mothersruin said:
geeks said:
I assume the OP is a picture of perfect health and physique to be casting aspersions on 95% of the population of one area?
Why the personal comment?227bhp said:
Unsure what any of that has got to do with the debate at all. It's almost as if you've got too much time and your hands and just want to post up rubbish for some reason.
OP mentioned people being overweight I simply offered up a partial reason as to why. Is that not how a discussion works? Or was I supposed to read nod at it and then carry on eating cake?Anyway would appear I have stepped into a thread I’m not welcome in toodle pip
RDMcG said:
Definitely not hanging on as long as I can. Since I was about 15 I believed that the quality of life trumped length any time. Have long ago written DNRs into my will and will certainly refuse heroic treatments in order to live in a massively diminished state. Where I live is liberal about assisted end of life. It is not the case that everyone’s attitude changes as they age and they just want to hang on. Some do and will fight for every miserable painwracked day as is their right, and fair play to them.
I am crystal clear and live in excellent health. No medications. I am equally unsentimental about my options and will exercise them unhesitatingly.
I understand the sentiment but I think that line gets harder to define the closer you get to it.I am crystal clear and live in excellent health. No medications. I am equally unsentimental about my options and will exercise them unhesitatingly.
geeks said:
Well the OP is allowed to call 95% of a local population fat but god forbid someone question his physique?? Yes I’m overweight seeing as you’re so interested! 6’1 and 100kgs so heavy but not fat.
Using this as an example (no offence meant, this is factual).At 6ft1 and 100kg the wonderful world of BMI has you down as borderline obese.
Now you might be into rugger, or be all muscle, after all this is PH - and a flaw of BMI.
One of the key things which follows from the OP's observation is that the more people who are big, the more people think they aren't.
In the past when Dave was fat and his mates were thin, he was known as fatty-Dave, who got grief for having a large bag of chips when everyone else had small. Now if most of his mates are fat, its the norm.
That's what really ramps up the pressure on the NHS etc. the spiral continues.
Remember the grief CRUK got for this earlier in the year, they were fatshaming apparently:
Steve H said:
I understand the sentiment but I think that line gets harder to define the closer you get to it.
I think it gets easier as you understand the lives of people who are severely diminished or chronically ill. Fully defend their choice to stick around without the slightest interest in sharing the wait if it happens to me. Seneca said:
“Let us cherish and love old age; for it is full of pleasure if one knows how to use it. Fruits are most welcome when almost over; youth is most charming at its close; the last drink delights the toper, the glass which souses him and puts the finishing touch on his drunkenness. Each pleasure reserves to the end the greatest delights which it contains. Life is most delightful when it is on the downward slope, but has not yet reached the abrupt decline.”
If medical science can lengthen the downward slope and make the abrupt decline as abrupt as possible, then I don't think we need to worry too much about overall life expectancy. We spend most of our lives looking and dreaming about the future. There's a lot to be said about not having much of a future and enjoying what's right in front of us.
Luck of the Genes or is he doing it right?
This old chap lives near me and has been in the news a few times..
https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/27/100-year-old-vetera...
This old chap lives near me and has been in the news a few times..
https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/27/100-year-old-vetera...
Good for him. 
"John’s impressive routine means he doesn’t suffer from arthritis, his lungs and heart are in perfect working order and he only goes to the doctors twice a year for check ups."
yip, combine that with the right diet, and there's no reason why he couldn't be like that for another 10-20 years.
yip, combine that with the right diet, and there's no reason why he couldn't be like that for another 10-20 years.
Mothersruin said:
We had a walk around lovely Camarthan Town earlier today - 95% of the people were over weight.
The Memsahib noted that all this stuff about people living longer won't be an issue soon as we're getting to the end of the healthier generation brought up in the 50's to 70's, and entering the fat zone.
As it's always said, you don't see fat people in old folks homes (staff excluded).
Was an interesting point I thought.
If everyone was thin though the world would be full to capacity (10bn seems to be the tipping point) and then the healthy ones would die too. Good for the planet I say so long may it continue.The Memsahib noted that all this stuff about people living longer won't be an issue soon as we're getting to the end of the healthier generation brought up in the 50's to 70's, and entering the fat zone.
As it's always said, you don't see fat people in old folks homes (staff excluded).
Was an interesting point I thought.
TX.
geeks said:
Well the OP is allowed to call 95% of a local population fat but god forbid someone question his physique?? Yes I’m overweight seeing as you’re so interested! 6’1 and 100kgs so heavy but not fat.
That suggests a BMI of 29, which puts you at the very top end of being overweight. A BMI of 30 and over is considered obese.boxst said:
I wonder how much of the extended age is due to just being kept alive in hospital?
My Mother died a few months ago and was thankfully only in hospital a day. But that day seriously effected me: All the old people on the ward were being kept alive, most couldn't communicate and were incapable moving and were so drugged up that they themselves were not capable of even thought I suspect. Chatting to the nurses some had been like that for a year or more.
So whilst their age had been extended, I would say their life hadn't.
This is exactly what is happening, healthy life expectancy is not keeping up with increased overall expectancy. As has been mentioned the biggest gains are when you are younger.My Mother died a few months ago and was thankfully only in hospital a day. But that day seriously effected me: All the old people on the ward were being kept alive, most couldn't communicate and were incapable moving and were so drugged up that they themselves were not capable of even thought I suspect. Chatting to the nurses some had been like that for a year or more.
So whilst their age had been extended, I would say their life hadn't.
Full report here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
swerni said:
Just for some balance, BMI was never meant to be used on an individual basis, it was designed as an average, so is fundamentally flawed and should be ignored. Percentage body fat is a meaningful measurement, BMI isn’t.
As the fattest nation in Western Europe, the op makes a fair observation.
63% of the population are overweight and the cost to the NHS is already over £6bn a year.
Being overweight (for the most) is a lifestyle choice, they eat s
t and don’t move enough.
Yes and no - the problem is compounded by poor advice from above. As the fattest nation in Western Europe, the op makes a fair observation.
63% of the population are overweight and the cost to the NHS is already over £6bn a year.
Being overweight (for the most) is a lifestyle choice, they eat s
t and don’t move enough.As we have a few generations with no real knowledge of a healthy diet, just the latest fad/craze they then resort to doctors/medical community who are also pretty clueless. Then there's a whole new industry selling nutrition and dietary advice - mostly mumbo-jumbo with a veneer of science.The NHS advice is little better: Eatwell Guide. It's little wonder we have a problem.
swerni said:
Henners said:
geeks said:
Well the OP is allowed to call 95% of a local population fat but god forbid someone question his physique?? Yes I’m overweight seeing as you’re so interested! 6’1 and 100kgs so heavy but not fat.
Using this as an example (no offence meant, this is factual).At 6ft1 and 100kg the wonderful world of BMI has you down as borderline obese.
Now you might be into rugger, or be all muscle, after all this is PH - and a flaw of BMI.
As the fattest nation in Western Europe, the op makes a fair observation.
63% of the population are overweight and the cost to the NHS is already over £6bn a year.
Being overweight (for the most) is a lifestyle choice, they eat s
t and don’t move enough.Sadly BMI is the common measurement and is flawed - hence my comment. However it is a good way to get people to realise they're a bit porky.
Still doesn't escape the fact that thinking 100kg at his height ain't fat is an issue...
Bariatric beds are being used quite a bit more than they were in the past for hospital admissions.
I give you... the 70 stone (500kg) bed. 72 stone in the NHS catalogue.
If everybody on here treated their body with the same car they treated their cars/bikes then most of us would be living very long and healthy lives.
Imagine chucking in a pint of vegetable oil into your engine. You probably can't as there is no way on gods earth that your pride and joy (lump of metal) would be subjected to only the finest engine oil as you may gain 1-2bhp and have a lovely clean engine that will run at it's optimum level.
But our bodies, which are the greatest machine on earth of which we are so lucky to have been blessed with are subjected to anything but the the finest fuels on a daily basis. In the main we treat ourselves with contempt, disrespect or whatever you want to call it. We have no self control and always have what we fancy rather then whats actually good for us.
I find it funny and I won't be popular for saying this, but you can go to a car meet and see an overweight guy that clearly eats ste and doesn't exercise in the slightest. But his car is perfect!, it purrs in fact and the bodywork is amazing!. The guy has even spent a fortune on carbon fiber panels and interior trim to save weight no less.. but there he stands next to it weighing 18 stone and standing at 5ft 8in tall.
If only he had the same respect for himself as he does his car then he could have saved thousands of pounds on weight saving carbon fiber parts and gone a lot faster..but hey ho he's not alone as the majority are now the same so he doesn't stand out and is considered normal.
Imagine chucking in a pint of vegetable oil into your engine. You probably can't as there is no way on gods earth that your pride and joy (lump of metal) would be subjected to only the finest engine oil as you may gain 1-2bhp and have a lovely clean engine that will run at it's optimum level.
But our bodies, which are the greatest machine on earth of which we are so lucky to have been blessed with are subjected to anything but the the finest fuels on a daily basis. In the main we treat ourselves with contempt, disrespect or whatever you want to call it. We have no self control and always have what we fancy rather then whats actually good for us.
I find it funny and I won't be popular for saying this, but you can go to a car meet and see an overweight guy that clearly eats s
te and doesn't exercise in the slightest. But his car is perfect!, it purrs in fact and the bodywork is amazing!. The guy has even spent a fortune on carbon fiber panels and interior trim to save weight no less.. but there he stands next to it weighing 18 stone and standing at 5ft 8in tall.If only he had the same respect for himself as he does his car then he could have saved thousands of pounds on weight saving carbon fiber parts and gone a lot faster..but hey ho he's not alone as the majority are now the same so he doesn't stand out and is considered normal.
Good point.
I think there's a difference between being big - 100kg, and so big that if you don't do something you're going to die too.
I work with a lady who's about 350lbs and really struggles day to day, yet has a bacon sandwich each morning and crisps with a brown lunch and red coke.
At some point you must go 'this can't go on', but it seems that some people don't have that thought.
I think there's a difference between being big - 100kg, and so big that if you don't do something you're going to die too.
I work with a lady who's about 350lbs and really struggles day to day, yet has a bacon sandwich each morning and crisps with a brown lunch and red coke.
At some point you must go 'this can't go on', but it seems that some people don't have that thought.
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