What food is “natural” for humans?

What food is “natural” for humans?

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iwantagta

1,323 posts

144 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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Rustlers burgers.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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grumbledoak said:


So, our historic (Paleolithic) diet was mostly meat.
the diet varied massiicly based on location so not totally correct. Maybe in colder climates diets made up of meat,due to lack of veg, but the modern interpretation of Paleo being meat based is pretty dumbed down on the actual variety that existed, fruit,nuts,veg,insects etc.'


grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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Thesprucegoose said:
the diet varied massiicly based on location so not totally correct. Maybe in colder climates diets made up of meat,due to lack of veg, but the modern interpretation of Paleo being meat based is pretty dumbed down on the actual variety that existed, fruit,nuts,veg,insects etc.'

"fruits,nuts,veg,insects" are *all* regional and seasonal.

As a hypothesis, "humans died out every winter and re-evolved from hominids" has probably been considered and discarded. You may have more luck with "humans outside of subtropical regions died out every winter and were re-populated from warmer climes", but I don't think the evidence is there. Personally I'm keeping my money on the "hunted animals" hypothesis.

Zarco

17,702 posts

208 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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bigpriest said:
Zarco said:
El Stovey - why do you think everyone loves the smell of a bbq?

It's because we all still have a bit of cave man in us.
The BBQ smell most people love is the fuel - not the food!
Bit of both isn't it.

PMacanGTS

467 posts

70 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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We evolved to eat whatever we could get our hands on. But given that our hunter gatherer ancestors had a limited larder to choose from, and it was totally unprocessed, the most number of calories with the least amount of effort was the order of the day. And if it tasted ok, that was a bonus.

The hunter gatherer wasn't counting their five a day or wondering if they should eat another banana because the Daily Mail once mentioned they were high in potassium, whatever that is or does.

All this guff about paleo, vegan or whatever, is nonsense. We ate anything and everything, just to stay alive. So, there is no ideal human diet.

The best you can say is, your diet should maybe consist of mostly whole foods, that are largely unprocessed. And any animal products are hormone and antibiotic free. And if we consider that for the most of human history we haven't eaten cultivated crops. especially grains, then maybe there's a case for avoiding those. Having said that, almost all modern fruit and vegetables are highly modified versions of the original plants.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
"fruits,nuts,veg,insects" are *all* regional and seasonal.

As a hypothesis, "humans died out every winter and re-evolved from hominids" has probably been considered and discarded. You may have more luck with "humans outside of subtropical regions died out every winter and were re-populated from warmer climes", but I don't think the evidence is there. Personally I'm keeping my money on the "hunted animals" hypothesis.
Or that humans originated in areas where plant based diets were available all year and only started eating meat when the migrated to colder climates much later.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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In order of importance;

Whole animals. Some seasonal vegetables. Some seasonal fruit in its original unmolested forms.

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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El stovey said:
Or that humans originated in areas where plant based diets were available all year and only started eating meat when the migrated to colder climates much later.
That was long, long before we were humans.

Hominids seem to have been omnivores, maybe six million years ago. But it was eating meat, probably fish, that sent us down the path to becoming humans. The mountain gorillas went vegan, got thick, and had to eat their own st, remember?

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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grumbledoak said:
Up until about 10,000 years ago meat was mostly what we ate - it is the only thing available year round. Fruit, nuts, berries, leaves, and roots are *all* seasonal, and basically don't exist over winter.
That's utter rubbish. Besides the fact the majority of prehistoric humans lived in subtropical climates, it doesn't take a lot to see that there are still berries on trees in winter, even a squirrel can store nuts and roots are exactly what does persist through the winter.

Yes we hunted, but to suggest that's all that happened in winter is either ignorance or too much time spent fantasising about hunting mammoth in the snow.

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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PMacanGTS said:
We evolved to eat whatever we could get our hands on. But given that our hunter gatherer ancestors had a limited larder to choose from, and it was totally unprocessed, the most number of calories with the least amount of effort was the order of the day. And if it tasted ok, that was a bonus.

The hunter gatherer wasn't counting their five a day or wondering if they should eat another banana because the Daily Mail once mentioned they were high in potassium, whatever that is or does.

All this guff about paleo, vegan or whatever, is nonsense. We ate anything and everything, just to stay alive. So, there is no ideal human diet.

The best you can say is, your diet should maybe consist of mostly whole foods, that are largely unprocessed. And any animal products are hormone and antibiotic free. And if we consider that for the most of human history we haven't eaten cultivated crops. especially grains, then maybe there's a case for avoiding those. Having said that, almost all modern fruit and vegetables are highly modified versions of the original plants.
You've contradicted yourself there a bit, we could only eat what was available at that time so it was Paleo.
If there was a Pizza Hut and sticky bun shop we would have been there too.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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the problem is that when Archaeological sites find bones etc are left over. Veg matter would be long gone. Most finds that have found veg matters, show a very varied diet with as much as 55 different plants consumed. This was a site dug from 780k years ago. It shows they in this area the diet was broad and most likely veg diet based.

The problem is there is too much pseudo science and fad diets based on minimal information.

Edited by Thesprucegoose on Sunday 8th December 22:51

Captain Smerc

3,015 posts

115 months

Sunday 8th December 2019
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Crisps

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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Evanivitch said:
That's utter rubbish. Besides the fact the majority of prehistoric humans lived in subtropical climates, it doesn't take a lot to see that there are still berries on trees in winter, even a squirrel can store nuts and roots are exactly what does persist through the winter.

Yes we hunted, but to suggest that's all that happened in winter is either ignorance or too much time spent fantasising about hunting mammoth in the snow.
Urban much? It's nearly winter. Why don't you try a little experiment in the New Year? Go find some woodland and dig up "some roots" from cold ground, using your bare hands or any sticks - no metal - you find. Bonus points if you eat them - fire was available. Report back on any nuts or berries you find. biggrin

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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grumbledoak said:
Urban much? It's nearly winter. Why don't you try a little experiment in the New Year? Go find some woodland and dig up "some roots" from cold ground, using your bare hands or any sticks - no metal - you find. Bonus points if you eat them - fire was available. Report back on any nuts or berries you find. biggrin
No, actually my home is quite rural, backing onto significant woodland and hills. I also spend a few nights on the ground around Brecon and Salisbury this time of year.

Learn a bit, open your eyes, there's more there than you think.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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I think most reasonable people would agree that humans are capable of eating a fairly wide variety of foods. However, that doesn't mean that our DNA has thus far evolved to thrive on equal portions of everything. Much less any proportions that suit our choosing.

Unencumbered by ethics or social politics, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to opine that early humans, when presented with the option, would have chosen to consume whole animals rather than a bunch of stinging nettles or a bramble bush. There are those who say that our evolutionary path has no bearing on what we are now optimised to eat, but those people do not understand the unimaginably delicate balance of biochemistry and the extremely complex mechanisms by which organisms extract and use fuel & nutrients from food.

My view is that the "natural" food for humans is that which we evolved alongside for the majority of the ~2.5m years that our ancestral lineage has roamed the planet. Whole, natural foods. Leaning mostly toward animal fat and protein when readily available. Oh, and sucrose, breakfast cereal, bread, pasta and chemically extracted seed oils are not whole natural foods.

That is my overall view of things based on many years of in-depth reading and research into the subject. I don't expect everyone will agree, but so long as I still have a choice of what food goes in my mouth, nor do I especially care biggrin

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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El stovey said:
Or that humans originated in areas where plant based diets were available all year and only started eating meat when the migrated to colder climates much later.
Other way round, surely? We could only migrate to colder climes once we'd learned to hunt.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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Kenny Powers said:
My view is that the "natural" food for humans is that which we evolved alongside for the majority of the ~2.5m years that our ancestral lineage has roamed the planet. Whole, natural foods. Leaning mostly toward animal fat and protein when readily available. Oh, and sucrose, breakfast cereal, bread, pasta and chemically extracted seed oils are not whole natural foods.

That is my overall view of things based on many years of in-depth reading and research into the subject. I don't expect everyone will agree, but so long as I still have a choice of what food goes in my mouth, nor do I especially care biggrin
But this gets us back to the question of what 'natural food' is. Does it really matter that bread etc isn't natural? Why does that make it bad? Eating sugar at very opportunity is perfectly natural because we evolved in an environment where it was very scarce. Evolution isn't perfect, Artificial sweeteners aren't 'natural' but if they satisfy some people's desire for sweetness without the calorie or dental issues of sugar that isn't a bad thing. Tobacco and asbestos are natural, that doesn't make them benign.

I remember when so called 'synthetic' oils became popular. There were people who reckoned synthetic meant artificial, even imitation and it couldn't possibly be as good as the real natural stuff.

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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Dr Jekyll said:
But this gets us back to the question of what 'natural food' is.
Natural food, in this context, and in my opinion, is that which our DNA evolved alongside. It wasn't sucrose, bread and seed oil. Whether or not anyone cares is another matter, and a complex discussion, but nevertheless that is surely what is meant by "natural" food as it pertains to what is natural for humans to eat. Food that we consumed ancestrally for more than two million years, made by nature, and before Danone or Kellogg's got involved forty years ago. Food that wasn't making us chronically sick with non-communicative disease.


Edited by Kenny Powers on Monday 9th December 09:57

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Monday 9th December 2019
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I love how people look on the past with Rose tinted glasses. Natural food covered in bacteria and parasites that didn't make people. It wasn't Eden it was brutal and we have reaped the rewards in the last few hundred years.

Bread has been eaten for at least 30k years . It is ridiculous to look at a diet a million years ago and champion as the best, we have adapted to whatever is in plenty.