Discussion
technodup said:
he one thing it's not is under-resourced. It's been getting real terms increases since Blair.
It tries to do far too much. It's badly organised and inefficient. It treats people it shouldn't, from health tourists to Saturday night steamers to the very old and futile. It's got plenty of money, often spent in the wrong places.
Old and futile. You've just described my self-image right there. It tries to do far too much. It's badly organised and inefficient. It treats people it shouldn't, from health tourists to Saturday night steamers to the very old and futile. It's got plenty of money, often spent in the wrong places.
sawman said:
Crumpet said:
It must really be dependent on where you live. Not that I’m a heavy user (touch wood) but for GP appointments it’s always same day and hospital appointments for wife and children are always reasonably sensible. Children’s A&E visits have always been sorted within an hour. My wife also got called in for a next day surgical procedure the other day so when they really need to do it they’re certainly able.
The NHS is great, but it’s not the envy of the world and there are definitely better ways of doing it.
So you get gp appointments the same day, kids sorted in a&e within an hour and next day surgery, but you think it could be done better?? The NHS is great, but it’s not the envy of the world and there are definitely better ways of doing it.
What exactly do you want?!
(Not being confrontational, just interested to hear whats missing)
I think what I meant to say is that in my experience there is lots of waste. Be that from the staff making poor decisions, general resources being wasted or from people being there that didn’t need to be there.
I am as far from being an expert as it’s possible to be so I wouldn’t have a clue how to improve it other than charging people an insurance style ‘excess’ to use it. It would certainly filter out some of the people who turn up to A&E with a cold - although I suspect the type of person who does that would end up being entitled to a benefits related excess waiver anyway.
ooid said:
I will put my British passport on ebay tonight, not sure if it would worth a penny though...
National embarassment.
OP, this is the point at which I lost empathy with you.National embarassment.
You have clearly had an unfortunate, personally frustrating and at times worrying experience.
However, to brand the NHS a national embarrassment on the basis of your one off, personal experience strikes me as grossly unfair on the staff of the NHS who (in my experience, having been a heavy user of the NHS over the last few few years) generally give their best.
By all means ebay your passport.
Crumpet said:
Yep, fair point. For me it’s generally fine and when we really did need the NHS it was beyond amazing. Clearly there’s a national issue though as people wouldn’t keep banging on about it.
I think what I meant to say is that in my experience there is lots of waste. Be that from the staff making poor decisions, general resources being wasted or from people being there that didn’t need to be there.
I am as far from being an expert as it’s possible to be so I wouldn’t have a clue how to improve it other than charging people an insurance style ‘excess’ to use it. It would certainly filter out some of the people who turn up to A&E with a cold - although I suspect the type of person who does that would end up being entitled to a benefits related excess waiver anyway.
As you will understand it's quite a complex problem. On a general level it's a much more efficient system than it was 30 years ago when I joined as a new graduate, during that time things have become possible on a routine basis that hadn't even been thought of in the 80's. I think what I meant to say is that in my experience there is lots of waste. Be that from the staff making poor decisions, general resources being wasted or from people being there that didn’t need to be there.
I am as far from being an expert as it’s possible to be so I wouldn’t have a clue how to improve it other than charging people an insurance style ‘excess’ to use it. It would certainly filter out some of the people who turn up to A&E with a cold - although I suspect the type of person who does that would end up being entitled to a benefits related excess waiver anyway.
Operations that required 2 weeks in hospital are now undertaken as day case. But in the meantime more things can be treated and more and more people are seeking this treatment.
Making any changes that create a cost at point of contact would be a major bone of contention, and of course would generate another level of administration to manage it.
I had the misfortune of being an inpatient a couple of years ago (misfortune to be be ill, not being stuck in the facility) and I could appreciate how it could be perceived that it was an inefficient process - you see the doc for a few minutes in the morning, maybe pop off for a scan or test periodically and maybe have some medicine in a drip for an hour here and there - the rest of the day just sitting there.
As I have some insight into the system, I know that really, this was the only real treatment option. I could have maybe received my treatment in a clinic and then gone home again, maybe come in for the scan, or to see the doc and home again - which would have freed up some nurses to help some one with greater need, but then the travel back and forth may have impacted on my treatment, or I may have had an adverse reaction at home, needing rapid transfer back to the hosp'. There may well be staff kicking around apparently not fully busy, but all it takes is a couple of sick patients to throw a wobbler on a ward and its all hands to the pumps, and thats why they are there.
Pinch points are A&E - this is very visible, but probably more of an indicator of all the bad stuff that goes on in wider society today - repeat attenders due to substance abuse, patients who have not been effectively managed in the community (mental health, social care, or just not being able to access a GP, and needing more care due to the aging population). GP access seems to be more difficult than it used to be - I guess lots are retiring and I don't blame them if they can - it must be a really tough, draining job.
The press go on about waiting times for elective surgery, they are right in that waits are longer than they were a couple of years ago, but they are still tons better than they were 12-15 years ago.
Obviously there is some variation in the quality across the country. which is a concern, the OP has clearly had a bad experience, and this should be flagged up with the trust concerned. I have the benefit of working in a cqc rated "outstanding" trust and whilst there are still issues (there always will be - as soon as you cant see issues theres a bigger problem) but really cant identify with the poor experience he has witnessed.
Europa1 said:
OP, this is the point at which I lost empathy with you.
You have clearly had an unfortunate, personally frustrating and at times worrying experience.
However, to brand the NHS a national embarrassment on the basis of your one off, personal experience strikes me as grossly unfair on the staff of the NHS who (in my experience, having been a heavy user of the NHS over the last few few years) generally give their best.
By all means ebay your passport.
Sorry but I really do not need your empathy and it's not really a place to have your unnecessary "national pride". If I may politely say sing your "Land of Hope and Glory" at somewhere else... I can only talk about our own personal experience. I've never had to use an ambulance in my life, the only time I needed they failed. The only time my wife needed an A&E, they failed. If a very hard working, British couple today (2019), has to travel overseas to get their health sorted because their national health system is failing, that's pure embarrassment for this country, nothing else.You have clearly had an unfortunate, personally frustrating and at times worrying experience.
However, to brand the NHS a national embarrassment on the basis of your one off, personal experience strikes me as grossly unfair on the staff of the NHS who (in my experience, having been a heavy user of the NHS over the last few few years) generally give their best.
By all means ebay your passport.
This is what you posted on another thread last week. Seems you are not too happy with this country anyway.
"I'm planning to move to Australia or U.S.A (West coast). Looking for a bit better life quality and weather. Being British and also having multi-nationalities, I feel quite pessimistic in U.K. and mainly in Europe. Especially, If we would ever have a child, it will not be an ideal place to live/work or survive..."
"I'm planning to move to Australia or U.S.A (West coast). Looking for a bit better life quality and weather. Being British and also having multi-nationalities, I feel quite pessimistic in U.K. and mainly in Europe. Especially, If we would ever have a child, it will not be an ideal place to live/work or survive..."
ooid said:
Thank you for the health wishes, and sorry to hear those who had some recent/old experiences in the hospital. As I mentioned previously, I have been very fortunate with the health side myself (do not smoke, not a big drinker, no drugs, very boring type!..).
To give more info about the situation of one of the most terrible nights I have ever had again. When I called the ambulance, early friday 1.00 a.m., we just woke up to my wife's situation. She was in massive pain, a bit fever and throwing up. Shaking, and not speaking properly. She had previously diagnosed with Endometriosis, and been visiting her GP for the last few months, on/off but she still has not been able to get an appointment with a specialist. The MRI results took so slow, we actually had to ask the MRI results through Freedom of Information and got a private doctor appointment instead. Anyway, due to her symptoms, we thought this is probably related to her condition, and since she can't walk properly, I had to call ambulance right away. She could not walk to our car or leave the house. The ambulance literally took 40 mins or more. I have called them 4 times, the answer I've got "Sorry sir, we are so busy tonight, no ambulance is available!". It is absolutely nightmare to see your partner in pains, crying, screaming and can't get her to the hospital and your emergency service can't get you some ambulance in essentially central London!
The moment Ambulance came, they were doing immediately basic checks, and later pain-medication. in 30 mins or so, we have been taken to the closest A&E. (Newham Hospital). I have never been to this hospital before, so not sure what people would think or assume but as I mentioned in the first post, I have never seen such a bad place in my life, calling it a hospital is total crime all I can say. As soon as she was admitted, after a bit of paper-work with the ambulance team, the head-nurse said, the waiting period is 7 hours! yes, 7 hours! They can not be serious!? Forgetting the waiting times, even a healthy person might lose their state of health after spending at least 30 mins there. It was the dirtiest hospital/clinic I've ever seen in my life. There is no bed, quite small waiting room loads of people literally stacked together waiting to be seen. It literally look like one of the sad temporary hospitals you would see in Syria or Iraq in war zone, no joke.
I've asked the head nurse immediately that I need to take my wife to other hospital, as she can not wait that long and requested the record of medicines that given to her in the ambulance. (to show this to the next hospital). The -rude- head nurse first ignored me, then finally gave our records when I insisted. I kindly requested wheelchair, as I cant carry her to the exit door, she and her other colleague again dismissed me saying "I can not see any wheelchair here".. They were not even bothered to open the gates for us so that we could get out(the doors are locked, only opened by staff card), you could imagine my state, trying to carry my wife but I need their help to get out, I asked them again loudly, "for the sake of helping us please, can you at least open the door!". One of these nurses moved herself in discomfort and let me out, I told her she should be proud of herself today, that's it.
I drove to another hospital (Homerton A&E), which was about 20 mins drive. As I have been there before, I thought it would be O.K. We have been admitted immediately a very nice nurse came over and gave us a private room with a bed. Her blood, urine samples taken again and more painkillers given. After this, we had to wait about 3 hours to be seen by a doctor, which I find completely strange, and I do hope some one from NHS can actually give me some logical info, as the hospital/ward was not that busy?
A nurse keep coming every 20 mins or so checking us kindly, how we are doing but I've asked him when we could see a doctor. He said, they are busy but we are the next on line. The ward was not that busy, but there is a big circular work/desk arrangement in A&E layout, where all junior doctors/registrars (not so sure about their hierarchy?) and nurses seating and typing or recording their notes.. I've seen 2-3 junior or registrars there for this 2-3 hour period, usually doing some admin work or chatting quite casually. As I keep asking our nurse when can we see the doctor, they saw and heard me so I thought we would probably waiting for a senior doctor or consultant. Anyway, after nearly 3 hours wait, one of these young gentleman just came to see us! Of course that minute, I had no effort to argue with him or question what he was doing in there for the last 2-3 hours? literally this is for curiosity, are doctors supposed to fill and do their admins there, even though you have quite emergency patients waiting just opposite? This is totally bonkers to me hopefully someone from inside can give a logical explanation. The young doctor, just asked all the history of the events, took some notes, then he went to make some phone calls. I had to go out at some point to change our parking place, during this time my wife asked him for help to walk to toilet but he also dismissed. On my return, clearly there was a shift-change, and another senior doctor came in (female) and took a more hands-on approach with my wife. Took more tests, and checked upon us with new medicine until we leave, she was great. My wife would probably need an operation but since we still have not able to see her consultant she could not advise more but said we need to see the consultant with MRI asap. (Tell us about it, we are in the queue for months!)
I took the final pull, and taking loads of recommendation/experiences from friends/relatives, we just travelled to Turkey (Istanbul) today, and made appointment with a quite well known doctor in this field. The appointment was made quickly due to our friends/relatives, and I can only say we are lucky/fortunate to have this travel in short-time. I had no prior knowledge on this previously but clearly; Istanbul (Turkey) and Barcelona (Spain) just became the major popular cities for mainly British citizens to get their operations done, since NHS failing to act on them. The facilities are fantastic, doctors are extremely talented and well educated. I have also made appointments for getting a private health cover for both of us in the future in U.K., I'm afraid I have no believe or trust in the system anymore...
I will definitely send my experience to PALS system at Newham Hospital and Care Quality Commission but after seeing what is happening there and how actually they are being allowed to act/work in that way, I doubt any action would be taken.
Thank you for the best wishes again, I really would not know how to act or what to do if I have much more serious condition, such as a ill toddlers.
PS: Some one earlier asked me how did I vote? I'm sorry to say as much as we believe this is mostly related to politics and budget but in my experience what I've also seen doctors/nurses who have no empathy to patients, which is beyond politics but pure humanity. - "first, do no harm."
I've seen quite a bit of the NHS through having a tumour. Most of what you describe is what I see each time I have the misfortune to go. I have private insurance now but have to run a few things in parallel due to complexity, but I try and avoid the NHS where possible. All I see is a total disregard for the customer. I've always worked in the private sector and am acutely aware from day 1 of starting my career of the customer experience and most of all perception. All I ever see is the clock ticking away and a host of nurses, doctors chatting and laughing around the counter, nobody ever has a sense of remote urgency. All we hear is that 'we are so busy, have to work 67hr days etc !' Well so would I if I stood around talking bTo give more info about the situation of one of the most terrible nights I have ever had again. When I called the ambulance, early friday 1.00 a.m., we just woke up to my wife's situation. She was in massive pain, a bit fever and throwing up. Shaking, and not speaking properly. She had previously diagnosed with Endometriosis, and been visiting her GP for the last few months, on/off but she still has not been able to get an appointment with a specialist. The MRI results took so slow, we actually had to ask the MRI results through Freedom of Information and got a private doctor appointment instead. Anyway, due to her symptoms, we thought this is probably related to her condition, and since she can't walk properly, I had to call ambulance right away. She could not walk to our car or leave the house. The ambulance literally took 40 mins or more. I have called them 4 times, the answer I've got "Sorry sir, we are so busy tonight, no ambulance is available!". It is absolutely nightmare to see your partner in pains, crying, screaming and can't get her to the hospital and your emergency service can't get you some ambulance in essentially central London!
The moment Ambulance came, they were doing immediately basic checks, and later pain-medication. in 30 mins or so, we have been taken to the closest A&E. (Newham Hospital). I have never been to this hospital before, so not sure what people would think or assume but as I mentioned in the first post, I have never seen such a bad place in my life, calling it a hospital is total crime all I can say. As soon as she was admitted, after a bit of paper-work with the ambulance team, the head-nurse said, the waiting period is 7 hours! yes, 7 hours! They can not be serious!? Forgetting the waiting times, even a healthy person might lose their state of health after spending at least 30 mins there. It was the dirtiest hospital/clinic I've ever seen in my life. There is no bed, quite small waiting room loads of people literally stacked together waiting to be seen. It literally look like one of the sad temporary hospitals you would see in Syria or Iraq in war zone, no joke.
I've asked the head nurse immediately that I need to take my wife to other hospital, as she can not wait that long and requested the record of medicines that given to her in the ambulance. (to show this to the next hospital). The -rude- head nurse first ignored me, then finally gave our records when I insisted. I kindly requested wheelchair, as I cant carry her to the exit door, she and her other colleague again dismissed me saying "I can not see any wheelchair here".. They were not even bothered to open the gates for us so that we could get out(the doors are locked, only opened by staff card), you could imagine my state, trying to carry my wife but I need their help to get out, I asked them again loudly, "for the sake of helping us please, can you at least open the door!". One of these nurses moved herself in discomfort and let me out, I told her she should be proud of herself today, that's it.
I drove to another hospital (Homerton A&E), which was about 20 mins drive. As I have been there before, I thought it would be O.K. We have been admitted immediately a very nice nurse came over and gave us a private room with a bed. Her blood, urine samples taken again and more painkillers given. After this, we had to wait about 3 hours to be seen by a doctor, which I find completely strange, and I do hope some one from NHS can actually give me some logical info, as the hospital/ward was not that busy?
A nurse keep coming every 20 mins or so checking us kindly, how we are doing but I've asked him when we could see a doctor. He said, they are busy but we are the next on line. The ward was not that busy, but there is a big circular work/desk arrangement in A&E layout, where all junior doctors/registrars (not so sure about their hierarchy?) and nurses seating and typing or recording their notes.. I've seen 2-3 junior or registrars there for this 2-3 hour period, usually doing some admin work or chatting quite casually. As I keep asking our nurse when can we see the doctor, they saw and heard me so I thought we would probably waiting for a senior doctor or consultant. Anyway, after nearly 3 hours wait, one of these young gentleman just came to see us! Of course that minute, I had no effort to argue with him or question what he was doing in there for the last 2-3 hours? literally this is for curiosity, are doctors supposed to fill and do their admins there, even though you have quite emergency patients waiting just opposite? This is totally bonkers to me hopefully someone from inside can give a logical explanation. The young doctor, just asked all the history of the events, took some notes, then he went to make some phone calls. I had to go out at some point to change our parking place, during this time my wife asked him for help to walk to toilet but he also dismissed. On my return, clearly there was a shift-change, and another senior doctor came in (female) and took a more hands-on approach with my wife. Took more tests, and checked upon us with new medicine until we leave, she was great. My wife would probably need an operation but since we still have not able to see her consultant she could not advise more but said we need to see the consultant with MRI asap. (Tell us about it, we are in the queue for months!)
I took the final pull, and taking loads of recommendation/experiences from friends/relatives, we just travelled to Turkey (Istanbul) today, and made appointment with a quite well known doctor in this field. The appointment was made quickly due to our friends/relatives, and I can only say we are lucky/fortunate to have this travel in short-time. I had no prior knowledge on this previously but clearly; Istanbul (Turkey) and Barcelona (Spain) just became the major popular cities for mainly British citizens to get their operations done, since NHS failing to act on them. The facilities are fantastic, doctors are extremely talented and well educated. I have also made appointments for getting a private health cover for both of us in the future in U.K., I'm afraid I have no believe or trust in the system anymore...
I will definitely send my experience to PALS system at Newham Hospital and Care Quality Commission but after seeing what is happening there and how actually they are being allowed to act/work in that way, I doubt any action would be taken.
Thank you for the best wishes again, I really would not know how to act or what to do if I have much more serious condition, such as a ill toddlers.
PS: Some one earlier asked me how did I vote? I'm sorry to say as much as we believe this is mostly related to politics and budget but in my experience what I've also seen doctors/nurses who have no empathy to patients, which is beyond politics but pure humanity. - "first, do no harm."
Edited by ooid on Sunday 15th December 01:15
ks all day.My last appointment was a Moorfields eye hospital. I was in for the 8.30 appt but not seen until 10.30. I watched my doc swan in at 9.15, saunter about without a care in the world, then in full view of me have a 45 min chat with a colleague, I could even hear them and it wasn't work related.
I see a lot of doctors in the private sector and the service is the polar opposite. From the receptionist not having had a lobotomy to the doctor being seemingly qualified! If the NHS was partly sold off it would more than likely do us a favor. If it was private they would be banned from practicing.
Four Litre said:
My last appointment was a Moorfields eye hospital. I was in for the 8.30 appt but not seen until 10.30. I watched my doc swan in at 9.15, saunter about without a care in the world, then in full view of me have a 45 min chat with a colleague, I could even hear them and it wasn't work related.
Apparently eye clinics are a standing joke in the NHS. A whole hospital devoted to them doesn't bear thinking about.I watched as people arrived at the one I was in and they got people's notes out as they arrived and put the folders on the desk. Then the next person arrived and their folder was put on top of the pile etc. I couldn't believe it when a nurse came to get another patient and just took the top folder off the pile and shouted out the name!
They didn't respond well to my querying their system - but I was seen next, which set all the tonques wagging!
My local one is excellent- been unfortunate enough to use the A&E many, many times over the years, and all visits have been a smooth, prompt and painless experience (other than the pain!). Ambulances have picked me up quickly on the 4 occasions I've needed one; any operation has been smooth, with a pleasant stay too, as have my expended stays, of which there have now (unfortunately) been a few.
Nothing but good things to say about the NHS. (I certainly get my monies worth)
Nothing but good things to say about the NHS. (I certainly get my monies worth)
Sorry to read of the OP and his wife's poor experience, not much to add on that topic.
To those that suggest privatisation be careful what you wish for; speaking with a US colleague the other week and his health insurance is $3k a month.
Granted US maybe extreme end of the scale, but can see why many in the US have no health cover
To those that suggest privatisation be careful what you wish for; speaking with a US colleague the other week and his health insurance is $3k a month.
Granted US maybe extreme end of the scale, but can see why many in the US have no health cover
I think the NHS is in a bit of a mess.
I'm meant to be having a triple heart bypass.
My 5th date for surgery was cancelled today, even though after reporting at the hozzy I had been seen by a senior registrar to book me in and also the aneasthetic chap after arriving on the ward at 7.30 am
I was told I would be opened up around 12.30 -1pm and was sitting in a waiting room when at 11.45 I was told by the consultant it wasn't going to happen today. The previous patient, was in bed waiting for their heart op (due at 8.30 am) and had a less than 50% chance of getting operated on today.
Consultant was lovely, but i could tell he was upset as he knew people were getting messed with.
The reason for the bump was that intensive care were short staffed, so even though the op could have been done, aftercare wasn't safely staffed due to personnel shortages.
Seems to be there is just no slack in the system, and beds are like musical chairs.
From my point of view, it was like being in the plane, on the runway, engines revving en route to a yearned for holiday and being chucked off the plane at the last second.
The previous 4 date changes were all cancelled on the day or within a couple days of op date.
Not ideal..
I'm meant to be having a triple heart bypass.
My 5th date for surgery was cancelled today, even though after reporting at the hozzy I had been seen by a senior registrar to book me in and also the aneasthetic chap after arriving on the ward at 7.30 am
I was told I would be opened up around 12.30 -1pm and was sitting in a waiting room when at 11.45 I was told by the consultant it wasn't going to happen today. The previous patient, was in bed waiting for their heart op (due at 8.30 am) and had a less than 50% chance of getting operated on today.
Consultant was lovely, but i could tell he was upset as he knew people were getting messed with.
The reason for the bump was that intensive care were short staffed, so even though the op could have been done, aftercare wasn't safely staffed due to personnel shortages.
Seems to be there is just no slack in the system, and beds are like musical chairs.
From my point of view, it was like being in the plane, on the runway, engines revving en route to a yearned for holiday and being chucked off the plane at the last second.
The previous 4 date changes were all cancelled on the day or within a couple days of op date.
Not ideal..
Edited by andygo on Saturday 21st December 09:26
The NHS is being set up to fail on so many levels. I wonder why and what happens next......
If you want A&E pinch points sorted, easy:
- doctors start home visits again
- shut down privately run 111's and pass over to relevant ambulance trusts
- national campaign to promote people getting to A&E in their own car when they/their loved one/child can mobilise instead of dialling 999 and tying up an ambulance.
If you want A&E pinch points sorted, easy:
- doctors start home visits again
- shut down privately run 111's and pass over to relevant ambulance trusts
- national campaign to promote people getting to A&E in their own car when they/their loved one/child can mobilise instead of dialling 999 and tying up an ambulance.
andygo said:
I think the NHS is in a bit of a mess.
I'm meant to be having a triple heart bypass.
My 5th date for surgery was cancelled today, even though after reporting at the hozzy I had been seen by a senior registrar to book me in and also the aneasthetic chap after arriving on the ward at 7.30 am
I was told I would be opened up around 12.30 -1pm and was sitting in a waiting room when at 11.45 I was told by the consultant it wasn't going to happen today. The previous patient, was in bed waiting for their heart op (due at 8.30 am) and had a less than 50% chance of getting operated on today.
Consultant was lovely, but i could tell he was upset as he knew people were getting messed with.
The reason for the bump was that intensive care were short staffed, so even though the op could have been done, aftercare wasn't safely staffed due to personnel shortages.
Seems to be there is just no slack in the system, and beds are like musical chairs.
From my point of view, it was like being in the plane, on the runway, engines revving en route to a yearned for holiday and being chucked off the plane at the last second.
The previous 4 date changes were all cancelled on the day or within a couple days of op date.
Not ideal..
My funniest was an NHS doc telling me to stop taking my meds so he could "see what I was like without!" I knew this was a very bad Idea so ignored him. I then had letter after letter cancelling each future appointment in succession. I'm meant to be having a triple heart bypass.
My 5th date for surgery was cancelled today, even though after reporting at the hozzy I had been seen by a senior registrar to book me in and also the aneasthetic chap after arriving on the ward at 7.30 am
I was told I would be opened up around 12.30 -1pm and was sitting in a waiting room when at 11.45 I was told by the consultant it wasn't going to happen today. The previous patient, was in bed waiting for their heart op (due at 8.30 am) and had a less than 50% chance of getting operated on today.
Consultant was lovely, but i could tell he was upset as he knew people were getting messed with.
The reason for the bump was that intensive care were short staffed, so even though the op could have been done, aftercare wasn't safely staffed due to personnel shortages.
Seems to be there is just no slack in the system, and beds are like musical chairs.
From my point of view, it was like being in the plane, on the runway, engines revving en route to a yearned for holiday and being chucked off the plane at the last second.
The previous 4 date changes were all cancelled on the day or within a couple days of op date.
Not ideal..
Edited by andygo on Saturday 21st December 09:26
The end result if I had taken his "expert advise" would of been 9 month without my medication. I would of loved to have turned up dressed as a tramp saying I had taken his advise but as discussed without meds I wouldn't be able to work so had lost my job, house and wife! but I just went private instead.
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