Fitness gurus on the juice...

Fitness gurus on the juice...

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Discussion

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
I have a little (and I mean LITTLE) youtube channel that I occasional put something on that relates to my fitness regime. The other day I had a comment from someone in relation to an ultra marathon I'd run which was basically saying....you do that at 220lbs + you must be on gear. I laughed it off as I don't look remotely big but...as my endurance times get better, I came 3rd in a 10 mile trail run the other day, I am finishing with people much smaller than me. And I'm on TRT - so a grey area. With a couple of thousand subs (tiny) I pondered what my response would be if asked outright - I don't want to dilute my message which is "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" but wouldn't want to outright lie. Anyway, for me, with my dinky little hobby channel it's neither here nor there really.

But it sent me down a rabbit hole watching big name fitness guys on youtube who claim natty. I have no issue with The Rock, the entire cast of Avengers and Huge Jackman all cruising and blasting (or blasting and blasting for Mr Rock) as it results in a cool movie! But the Youtube guys are selling stuff - supps, programmes......at the very least they are pushing a way of eating and training. And the comments are staggering......anyone calling foul is treated like a flat earther! It reminds me of the blind faith I had in Arnold in the 80's when I sent of my £19.99 to buy the armblaster from the back of M&F.

It would be so easy for these guys to just post up their blood work and show they are clean....instead they make a "hey, I'm natty" video and get another 1m views!

So......no big deal and no different to the 80's mags - or nuts and 16 year old boys (I have one) need lessons at school that fitness on Youtube is about as real as sex on pornhub???

popeyewhite

19,628 posts

119 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
How was your running before you started TRT? 220 lbs is about 100kg, pretty heavy to be winning races at. Unless there's not many in the race biggrin

Olivera

7,068 posts

238 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
Tiggsy said:
And I'm on TRT - so a grey area.
It's on the prohibited WADA list, unless you have a genuine TUE.

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
How was your running before you started TRT? 220 lbs is about 100kg, pretty heavy to be winning races at. Unless there's not many in the race biggrin
It was ok and I’m only a few months into TRT so I don’t attribute anything much to it yet. I’m not winning by a long way, but up with smaller guys. Running sub 20m 5ks at 220lbs and 46 is odd.....it’s not elite stuff though 😄. This year will be the test, I have a full on year of ocr racing that I aim to a) do ok in and b) keep my size. So, as with the running, I won’t be winning.....but I’ll be bigger than guys around me. Last year the training to maintain that was tough and the inclusion of running ultras to build endurance was starting to take its toll. The last few months, on TRT, have felt a lot better.

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
Olivera said:
Tiggsy said:
And I'm on TRT - so a grey area.
It's on the prohibited WADA list, unless you have a genuine TUE.
I mean in relation to this issue of fitness influencers. Cheating in sport is a different game.

mcelliott

8,626 posts

180 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
Doesn't bother me more than that, as long as they're up front about it, however I will make an exception for Ross Edgley, happy to answer any question,
on nutrition and training, however not so forthcoming when I posed the question on what drugs he's taking.

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
mcelliott said:
Doesn't bother me more than that, as long as they're up front about it, however I will make an exception for Ross Edgley, happy to answer any question,
on nutrition and training, however not so forthcoming when I posed the question on what drugs he's taking.
Perfect example - of which there are many.

If I was him, and my living depends on how I look and how I create that...and 99% of people that lift where saying "not natty" I'd simply stick my blood work online and suddenly elevate myself above EVERY other influencer. Of course, if I was on gear I'd accept it was obvious to many but there's enough people new to fitness that will buy into me for it not to matter.

popeyewhite

19,628 posts

119 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
mcelliott said:
Doesn't bother me more than that, as long as they're up front about it,,,.
Yup. By trying to deceive people who know you supplement you just look a dick and lose any (remaining) credibility.

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
But most aren’t up front and the vast majority of fans have no idea. Fans paying for programs, supplements, books, subscribers, etc

mcelliott

8,626 posts

180 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Tiggsy said:
But most aren’t up front and the vast majority of fans have no idea. Fans paying for programs, supplements, books, subscribers, etc
Yep

R.Sole

12,241 posts

205 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Greg Doucette calls a lot of these guys out on Youtube and is totally open about all the gear he takes!
He has an “interesting” style which you can watch or hate.

popeyewhite

19,628 posts

119 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Tiggsy said:
But most aren’t up front and the vast majority of fans have no idea. Fans paying for programs, supplements, books, subscribers, etc
I think there's a modern mentality now whereby steroid use has become so widespread it's almost the norm. And like everyday events, we tend not to discuss them, or even dismiss them as mundane, especially as people trying to make an impact on YT. If you're a fitness guru and it's a level playing field as far as PEDS are concerned you'll want to focus on what makes you stand out from others in the field, not dwell on similarities I suppose.

Jim on the hill

5,072 posts

189 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Your message of "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" needs to be "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort and TRT" otherwise it's incorrect I'm afraid.

Even if it's medical the target market you are trying to tell can be as fit as you may need the same help you are having.

Not a dig just an observation

Rob_R

2,428 posts

244 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
It can be a bit of a grey area.

If you take gear and are upfront about then fair play to you.

I think if you are taking gear then claiming natty there's a problem and people should, quite rightly, be called out for it. Especially if these fake natties are stating that if you take my BCAAs and protein powder and follow my janky fitness routine then you'll look just like me!

PED use in Hollywood in another issue as well and could be contributing to promoting unhealthy body standards. How are these actors having amazing fitness transformations in a matter of months? Gear.

Lui Marco was quite good at making fun of these guys back in the day. Shame he doesn't any more.

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Jim on the hill said:
Your message of "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" needs to be "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort and TRT" otherwise it's incorrect I'm afraid.

Even if it's medical the target market you are trying to tell can be as fit as you may need the same help you are having.

Not a dig just an observation
My point is not to be as fit as me - it's that you can be better than most with some effort and being there is a cool place to be. You (I) didn't need TRT to get that! I started Parkrun at 23 stone and walking every 20 yards......after some effort I got to being in the top half of all runners. The day that happened was as much an achievement as now making the top 10 most days. I applied that approach to all manner of things last year - running, ultras, OCR, paddle board, cycling, rowing. All drug free. Slightly off point though!

didelydoo

5,528 posts

209 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
I don't really see the problem tbh, some people on look like st, some natties look awesome. They're all going to sell they're crap to someone regardless, such has always been the case.

If you think you can get huge and ripped with a tub of aminos and a bullworker, then that's the start of your learning curve laugh


ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
The shame is that it messes with people's expectations as to what is realistic. A young guy starting out that thinks you can get huge and ripped in a couple of years by lifting and eating clean is in for one hell of a surprise. The reality out in natty land is that loads of guys work reasonably hard for a long time and don't even look like they lift.

I do not know much about the effects of PEDs on running. I would guess that TRT helps with recovery, but carrying extra mass is probably a big downside. I don't think OP is cheating (or, if he is, it probably is not making a big difference).

The bigger question is why anyone that can lift or do anything else would choose to run! :-)

Jim on the hill

5,072 posts

189 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Tiggsy said:
Jim on the hill said:
Your message of "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" needs to be "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort and TRT" otherwise it's incorrect I'm afraid.

Even if it's medical the target market you are trying to tell can be as fit as you may need the same help you are having.

Not a dig just an observation
My point is not to be as fit as me - it's that you can be better than most with some effort and being there is a cool place to be. You (I) didn't need TRT to get that! I started Parkrun at 23 stone and walking every 20 yards......after some effort I got to being in the top half of all runners. The day that happened was as much an achievement as now making the top 10 most days. I applied that approach to all manner of things last year - running, ultras, OCR, paddle board, cycling, rowing. All drug free. Slightly off point though!
I see what you are saying and before the TRT I'd say you were correct. Your question was about disclosure and I just stating in my opinion it's not fair to not disclose it. Sure many don't but you know that already.

Tiggsy

Original Poster:

10,261 posts

251 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
ORD said:
I do not know much about the effects of PEDs on running. I would guess that TRT helps with recovery, but carrying extra mass is probably a big downside. I don't think OP is cheating (or, if he is, it probably is not making a big difference).
It helps me recover and stay motivated which helps me train. So it's a knock on effect.

Yes - extra mass means I'm slower than I could be but my goal is to be as good as I can be and not look like a runner. So I get my cake and eat it.

As for why run....I hear you! Never did till a couple of years ago......now there's just something cool about being able to just go a run for hours and hours. Feels very empowering. Also, an easy way for Joe Blogs to compete in life. I have a run tomorrow - me V 200 others. By lunch I'll know where I stack against them in a really simple/primal way. None of this my car is better than yours......my job is more important....just "I was faster than most of you". As a regular old 46 year old, I get few chances to compete in life - same for most of us - yet for thousands of years that was all we did, every day. Did you get killed today? No, cool...you won the day!

R.Sole

12,241 posts

205 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Tiggsy said:
I have a little (and I mean LITTLE) youtube channel that I occasional put something on that relates to my fitness regime. The other day I had a comment from someone in relation to an ultra marathon I'd run which was basically saying....you do that at 220lbs + you must be on gear. I laughed it off as I don't look remotely big but...as my endurance times get better, I came 3rd in a 10 mile trail run the other day, I am finishing with people much smaller than me. And I'm on TRT - so a grey area. With a couple of thousand subs (tiny) I pondered what my response would be if asked outright - I don't want to dilute my message which is "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" but wouldn't want to outright lie. Anyway, for me, with my dinky little hobby channel it's neither here nor there really.

But it sent me down a rabbit hole watching big name fitness guys on youtube who claim natty. I have no issue with The Rock, the entire cast of Avengers and Huge Jackman all cruising and blasting (or blasting and blasting for Mr Rock) as it results in a cool movie! But the Youtube guys are selling stuff - supps, programmes......at the very least they are pushing a way of eating and training. And the comments are staggering......anyone calling foul is treated like a flat earther! It reminds me of the blind faith I had in Arnold in the 80's when I sent of my £19.99 to buy the armblaster from the back of M&F.

It would be so easy for these guys to just post up their blood work and show they are clean....instead they make a "hey, I'm natty" video and get another 1m views!

So......no big deal and no different to the 80's mags - or nuts and 16 year old boys (I have one) need lessons at school that fitness on Youtube is about as real as sex on pornhub???
Did the doctor prescribe you TRT?