Fitness gurus on the juice...
Discussion
And the cost isn’t bc even that high. My gym
Membership, trainer shoe budget, race fees, supplements even....all the same or more as my test.
The US is interesting as their TRT doses are pretty much double the UK. When it’s more mainstream here I wonder if clinics will give scripts for higher amounts to keep clients from shopping around?
Membership, trainer shoe budget, race fees, supplements even....all the same or more as my test.
The US is interesting as their TRT doses are pretty much double the UK. When it’s more mainstream here I wonder if clinics will give scripts for higher amounts to keep clients from shopping around?
Tiggsy said:
It was ok and I’m only a few months into TRT so I don’t attribute anything much to it yet. I’m not winning by a long way, but up with smaller guys. Running sub 20m 5ks at 220lbs and 46 is odd.....it’s not elite stuff though ??. This year will be the test, I have a full on year of ocr racing that I aim to a) do ok in and b) keep my size. So, as with the running, I won’t be winning.....but I’ll be bigger than guys around me. Last year the training to maintain that was tough and the inclusion of running ultras to build endurance was starting to take its toll. The last few months, on TRT, have felt a lot better.
What TRT are you on (dose & medicine) ?Four Litre said:
Agreed - I struggled for years not understanding what was wrong with me until I eventually collapsed at work. Going to the gym would mean I would feel shattered for days.
Now much to my wife's annoyance, I can sit of the sofa eating crisps whilst burning fat! Its annoying as I wondered for years how anyone else had the energy!
I don't know anyone who can sit eating crisps and not get fat. As we age we lose muscle so actually burn less calories as a metabolic process. I don't know your age but I have a friend whose 45 and his t levels have dropped off (due to previous cycle mismanagement over the years and no idea of correct PC protocols), and similar to yourself he thinks it's great, sex life back on line, feels more 'vital' and mentally sharper. But when I point out out he's unnaturally reinvigorated he becomes irritated. The fact is in taking a substance that has naturally dropped off (for whatever reason) you are assuming it can just become systemic once again and had no symbiotic relationship with other parts of the body. Or at least if you do then you assume it's a beneficial relationship. It may not be. In 30 years we may see people with diagnoses ranging from prostate cancer to something similarly unpleasant (heart disease) all because when their t became low it was actually part of a natural aging process - and we know it happens to men at different ages. Further there is no proof that lifelong TRT is safe, but cetainly without an excess of t at forty a nutural bodybuilder would not be experiencing body recomposition like another poster has mentioned. I'm not trying to preach or patronise, I just wish people wouldn't be quite so elated when they take elevated amounts of t and changes occur - because i personally think there will be a big price to pay later.Now much to my wife's annoyance, I can sit of the sofa eating crisps whilst burning fat! Its annoying as I wondered for years how anyone else had the energy!
popeyewhite said:
But when I point out out he's unnaturally reinvigorated he becomes irritated.
Odd...I love being unnaturally reinvigorated. Nothing about me is natural. I have bits of plastic in my eyes so I can see ok, without asthma meds as a kid I'd be dead, natural is overrated.It also depends on what you think of the aging process - as far as I'm concerned, aging after 35 is not a "process" the human body goes through - like puberty. It's the start of death. At 46 I had my 4th kid 13 years ago. My eldest has her own kids, my middle son is 6ft7. In nature.....I'm done. Why would my body go through any "process" at this stage? My kids can take it from here. What possible benefit does it serve the human race for me to change in any way that benefits me? I'm dying. Low test, poor eye sight, etc, etc - that is not a natural development I should embrace, it's the wheels coming off.
Are there downsides yet to be seen from long term TRT....maybe. One can only be sensible. I get blood work done 4 times a year, prostate check every year, I am healthy. Compared to my school friends.....I seem the fittest 46 year old among us. Is something growing within that will bite me at 85? maybe....but what about them? The natural ones...what's coming for them - a gigantic list of aliments, associated with aging that I am avoiding. Am I going to fall and bust a brittle hip at 70.....no, I'll be f
king jacked 
mcelliott said:
So if someone is on TRT and comes off it - will it accelerate natural hormone production even quicker? Or could they bring it back up to a level just through exercise and a healthier lifestyle?
You take T your body stops making it. You come off T and you have, at worse, very low T!!! At best some report it will creep back up to pre TRT levels if you're lucky. The advice to anyone starting is .... it's for life. mcelliott said:
.. Or could they bring it back up to a level just through exercise and a healthier lifestyle?
No. The restarting of testosterone production is triggered by signals from the pituitary gland to Leydig cells in the testes. If you're healthy most people will be back to normal after 4-6 months. It may take a year. For a small number of men the testes never recover. A lot of people take HCG during a cycle now. This prevents testicular atrophy so the theory is you'll be back online a lot sooner. People swear by post cycle therapy, but more often than not it'll take just as long to get back to normal with/without it. And PCT can be an ordeal in itself... .Tiggsy said:
mcelliott said:
So if someone is on TRT and comes off it - will it accelerate natural hormone production even quicker? Or could they bring it back up to a level just through exercise and a healthier lifestyle?
You take T your body stops making it. You come off T and you have, at worse, very low T!!! At best some report it will creep back up to pre TRT levels if you're lucky. The advice to anyone starting is .... it's for life. 
Tiggsy said:
egor110 said:
Which run ?
I do a few of the whitestar races down there .
There's a bodybuilder on YouTube who's training for a Ironman , he's been filming how he and his training has changed as he's progressed .
East Meon loop was the run. As someone has mentioned, this is the fun run end of the spectrum..... but it’s still 165 runners so while 3rd is not “off the Olympics” stuff.....it’s 3rd!!I do a few of the whitestar races down there .
There's a bodybuilder on YouTube who's training for a Ironman , he's been filming how he and his training has changed as he's progressed .
Do you mean Nick Bare in you tube? He is carry a lot of mass for someone banging out 6 min miles with ease.....yet claims 100% natty.
I'm not buying he's running 6 min miles , he might bust his ass to get the odd min mile in the 6's.
The further you run the less carrying muscle/weight is going to help , watch the runners who place well in long distance and instead of relying on muscle they glide over the ground
The sweet spot is being as strong and as light as you can get away with .
popeyewhite said:
Well at least you're honest! with respect though you are quite a bit older than some undergoing TRT on this forum. Would your outlook be the same if you were just 40? (Sorry not sure about your current age).egor110 said:
Yeah that's the guy.
I'm not buying he's running 6 min miles , he might bust his ass to get the odd min mile in the 6's.
The further you run the less carrying muscle/weight is going to help , watch the runners who place well in long distance and instead of relying on muscle they glide over the ground
The sweet spot is being as strong and as light as you can get away with .
I don't him being natty at all - he owns a sups company and every muscle forum has threads on him being "natty or not" - given that, if he was clean, why not just drop your blood results into a video - would see his sups company do great business.I'm not buying he's running 6 min miles , he might bust his ass to get the odd min mile in the 6's.
The further you run the less carrying muscle/weight is going to help , watch the runners who place well in long distance and instead of relying on muscle they glide over the ground
The sweet spot is being as strong and as light as you can get away with .
With regards placing well.....my aim is always just to place ok and stay heavy. I'd rather come 30 out of 200 at 16st than 5th at 14st. As long as no one heavier than me is ahead of me, I'm happy.
Tiggsy said:
It's all a bit swings and roundabouts - It also lets me retain more mass than I normally would despite the big miles I clock up...and the mass slows me down.
100% the biggest affect is on motivation and lethargy - I train more often and harder due to my head more than my bod.
Perhaps I'm cyncical, but running PB Ultramarathons, 5k in the 20 min region, training more than you've ever done at 46, generally aren't the symptoms of someone with low testosterone...100% the biggest affect is on motivation and lethargy - I train more often and harder due to my head more than my bod.
Olivera said:
Tiggsy said:
It's all a bit swings and roundabouts - It also lets me retain more mass than I normally would despite the big miles I clock up...and the mass slows me down.
100% the biggest affect is on motivation and lethargy - I train more often and harder due to my head more than my bod.
Perhaps I'm cyncical, but running PB Ultramarathons, 5k in the 20 min region, training more than you've ever done at 46, generally aren't the symptoms of someone with low testosterone...100% the biggest affect is on motivation and lethargy - I train more often and harder due to my head more than my bod.
My symptoms where mostly mental with a sensation that, despite the hard training, my improvements where not coming in all areas - body fat was much harder to drop without impacting lean size than it had been when younger. That and multiple blood tests showed low T so....err.....science?
Olivera said:
Perhaps I'm cyncical, but running PB Ultramarathons, 5k in the 20 min region, training more than you've ever done at 46, generally aren't the symptoms of someone with low testosterone...
Fairly typical for people to underplay the effect is has on them and overplay the effect it must have on other people though isn’t it?I’m guessing this is why people don’t talk about it, because they convince them selves it is only a small part of why they are like they are.
They’re really just more motivated/have better genetics/are better people/work harder etc etc etc
gregs656 said:
Fairly typical for people to underplay the effect is has on them and overplay the effect it must have on other people though isn’t it?
I dont think that was his point? He was suggesting my fitness levels before starting TRT suggested no need for TRT....i think?I think I've been pretty clear it has a huge impact on me (I wouldnt pay if it didn't!) - but the impact on certain things is not so clear. Does it let me run an ultra at 220lbs and stay at that weight....yes. Does that make me fast....not so much. Quite possible I'd go faster, off TRT and weighing less.
Olivera said:
Perhaps I'm cyncical, but running PB Ultramarathons, 5k in the 20 min region, training more than you've ever done at 46, generally aren't the symptoms of someone with low testosterone...
Doing Ultramarathons -all that distance running, I would have thought caused the low test!oceanview said:
Olivera said:
Perhaps I'm cyncical, but running PB Ultramarathons, 5k in the 20 min region, training more than you've ever done at 46, generally aren't the symptoms of someone with low testosterone...
Doing Ultramarathons -all that distance running, I would have thought caused the low test!I don't follow fitness gurus.
Having read Ross Edgley's book, though, I would be very surprised if he wasn't taking some sort of PEDs.
I know some keen and successful, amateur (and, some pro) , sportsmen, and they need to specialise. You can't be fit for everything at the same time and retain muscle bulk. Recovery normally becomes a massive issue too, you can't train constantly.
Having said that, I'm 42, 6', a lean 82kg (so not as big as the OP, but bigger than most runners) , and I generally come very close to the front in 5K/10K races (14th out of 750 in a local Park Run, closer to the front in smaller events) , beaten only by much younger, lighter people. I'm not a running specialist and don't do many miles. I don't take any sort of PEDs.
If I wanted to bulk up, I suspect my running and cycling performance would go down.
Most men of my age are overweight and in terrible condition, but I assume it to be due to lifestyle rather than medical problems.
I've no idea what my testosterone levels are (although I started losing my hair at a young age) . Recovery takes longer than it did when I was a teenager, but I still enjoy sparring and rolling with lads 20 years younger than me. I'm fairly strong for my size on the mat.
Having read Ross Edgley's book, though, I would be very surprised if he wasn't taking some sort of PEDs.
I know some keen and successful, amateur (and, some pro) , sportsmen, and they need to specialise. You can't be fit for everything at the same time and retain muscle bulk. Recovery normally becomes a massive issue too, you can't train constantly.
Having said that, I'm 42, 6', a lean 82kg (so not as big as the OP, but bigger than most runners) , and I generally come very close to the front in 5K/10K races (14th out of 750 in a local Park Run, closer to the front in smaller events) , beaten only by much younger, lighter people. I'm not a running specialist and don't do many miles. I don't take any sort of PEDs.
If I wanted to bulk up, I suspect my running and cycling performance would go down.
Most men of my age are overweight and in terrible condition, but I assume it to be due to lifestyle rather than medical problems.
I've no idea what my testosterone levels are (although I started losing my hair at a young age) . Recovery takes longer than it did when I was a teenager, but I still enjoy sparring and rolling with lads 20 years younger than me. I'm fairly strong for my size on the mat.
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