Fitness gurus on the juice...

[TheJimi]

For many individuals, PED use is the bloody great elephant sitting in the room.

At this point, it's a joke, because the vast majority of the time, it's patently obvious when people are users.

Yet, despite it being such a crucial component of that individual's condition & ability, it's almost never mentioned on their chosen media.

Edited by TheJimi on Saturday 25th January 21:34

[TheJimi]

For many individuals, PED use is the bloody great elephant sitting in the room.

At this point, it's a joke, because the vast majority of the time, it's patently obvious when people are users.

Yet, despite it being such a crucial component of that individual's condition & ability, it's almost never mentioned on their chosen media.

Edited by TheJimi on Saturday 25th January 21:34

[MC Bodge]

fesuvious said:

MC Bodge said:

I don't follow fitness gurus.

Having read Ross Edgley's book, though, I would be very surprised if he wasn't taking some sort of PEDs.

I know some keen and successful, amateur (and, some pro) , sportsmen, and they need to specialise. You can't be fit for everything at the same time and retain muscle bulk. Recovery normally becomes a massive issue too, you can't train constantly.

Having said that, I'm 42, 6', a lean 82kg (so not as big as the OP, but bigger than most runners) , and I generally come very close to the front in 5K/10K races (14th out of 750 in a local Park Run, closer to the front in smaller events) , beaten only by much younger, lighter people. I'm not a running specialist and don't do many miles. I don't take any sort of PEDs.

If I wanted to bulk up, I suspect my running and cycling performance would go down.

Most men of my age are overweight and in terrible condition, but I assume it to be due to lifestyle rather than medical problems.

I've no idea what my testosterone levels are (although I started losing my hair at a young age) . Recovery takes longer than it did when I was a teenager, but I still enjoy sparring and rolling with lads 20 years younger than me. I'm fairly strong for my size on the mat.

Thanks for writing this.
Reading this thread was making me both paranoid and insecure!

Glad to help. My post was a bit of a muddle of thoughts.

Which bit made you feel better?

[272BHP]

Would the OP be averse to sharing his numbers for Total T, SHBG, E2?

Always interesting to know the numbers of someone who is reaping the benefits of hormone replacement therapy. I appreciate we are all an experiment of one but case studies do fascinate me.

[ChocolateFrog]

One thing I've never really understood is it appears a fairly large percentage of those on drugs have gyno problems to some degree or another. I would have thought that an excess of testosterone would do the opposite? Or is it some of the other drugs that do that?

[Halb]

Tiggsy said:

I have a little (and I mean LITTLE) youtube channel that I occasional put something on that relates to my fitness regime. The other day I had a comment from someone in relation to an ultra marathon I'd run which was basically saying....you do that at 220lbs + you must be on gear. I laughed it off as I don't look remotely big but...as my endurance times get better, I came 3rd in a 10 mile trail run the other day, I am finishing with people much smaller than me. And I'm on TRT - so a grey area. With a couple of thousand subs (tiny) I pondered what my response would be if asked outright - I don't want to dilute my message which is "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" but wouldn't want to outright lie. Anyway, for me, with my dinky little hobby channel it's neither here nor there really.

But it sent me down a rabbit hole watching big name fitness guys on youtube who claim natty. I have no issue with The Rock, the entire cast of Avengers and Huge Jackman all cruising and blasting (or blasting and blasting for Mr Rock) as it results in a cool movie! But the Youtube guys are selling stuff - supps, programmes......at the very least they are pushing a way of eating and training. And the comments are staggering......anyone calling foul is treated like a flat earther! It reminds me of the blind faith I had in Arnold in the 80's when I sent of my £19.99 to buy the armblaster from the back of M&F.

It would be so easy for these guys to just post up their blood work and show they are clean....instead they make a "hey, I'm natty" video and get another 1m views!

So......no big deal and no different to the 80's mags - or nuts and 16 year old boys (I have one) need lessons at school that fitness on Youtube is about as real as sex on pornhub???

I reckon most of them are full of st.
Shredded SPorts Science is good, and there's one called More Plates More Dates, who makes vids on what gear he reckons people are on.

[MC Bodge]

ChocolateFrog said:

One thing I've never really understood is it appears a fairly large percentage of those on drugs have gyno problems to some degree or another. I would have thought that an excess of testosterone would do the opposite? Or is it some of the other drugs that do that?

Gynecological???!

[popeyewhite]

ChocolateFrog said:

One thing I've never really understood is it appears a fairly large percentage of those on drugs have gyno problems to some degree or another. I would have thought that an excess of testosterone would do the opposite? Or is it some of the other drugs that do that?

Put very simply, a large dose of supraphysiological testosterone, or anabolic steroid (they are all based on testosterone), can unbalance the body's hormonal system leading to a rise in estrogen, which can cause symptoms of gyno. This often goes unnoticed until symptoms present because of the high levels of t in the body.

[Halb]

ChocolateFrog said:

I like my powerlifting, I'm pretty crap at it. I have a friend that benches over 200kg and deadlifts over 500kg (seated) and another friend that benches 180kg. The first is on a cocktail of drugs the second doesn't even bother with protein shakes. I'd love to be like the second in a heartbeat. The first will quite probably be dead within 15-20 years but he's the one that can make a living out of it.

Suited dead at 500? That's near the world record.

popeyewhite said:

I don't know anyone who can sit eating crisps and not get fat. As we age we lose muscle so actually burn less calories as a metabolic process. I don't know your age but I have a friend whose 45 and his t levels have dropped off (due to previous cycle mismanagement over the years and no idea of correct PC protocols), and similar to yourself he thinks it's great, sex life back on line, feels more 'vital' and mentally sharper. But when I point out out he's unnaturally reinvigorated he becomes irritated. The fact is in taking a substance that has naturally dropped off (for whatever reason) you are assuming it can just become systemic once again and had no symbiotic relationship with other parts of the body. Or at least if you do then you assume it's a beneficial relationship. It may not be. In 30 years we may see people with diagnoses ranging from prostate cancer to something similarly unpleasant (heart disease) all because when their t became low it was actually part of a natural aging process - and we know it happens to men at different ages. Further there is no proof that lifelong TRT is safe, but cetainly without an excess of t at forty a nutural bodybuilder would not be experiencing body recomposition like another poster has mentioned. I'm not trying to preach or patronise, I just wish people wouldn't be quite so elated when they take elevated amounts of t and changes occur - because i personally think there will be a big price to pay later.

Well that's certainly put me off wanting it!
But actually, I am extremely tempted....I doubt I have low test though, I lift and run regularly, I am currently not what I consider fit, but currently parkrun is around 27 mins at around 255. But really, not sure if I would wan to stay on it for life, or if I could do it part time for 'boosts'. I don't like the idea of future issues, also the cost....

[MC Bodge]

Halb said:

Well that's certainly put me off wanting it!
But actually, I am extremely tempted....I doubt I have low test though, I lift and run regularly, I am currently not what I consider fit, but currently parkrun is around 27 mins at around 255. But really, not sure if I would wan to stay on it for life, or if I could do it part time for 'boosts'. I don't like the idea of future issues, also the cost....

I would say don't do it.

I'm at the age at which I know my strength and fitness is going to start deteriorating more noticeably, and I'm not looking forward to it, but taking drugs that might result in major health problems in later life doesn't seem worth it.

Keep training and living a healthy life, and grow older gracefully and with as much capability as you can, naturally.

[slopes]

Halb said:

I reckon most of them are full of st.
Shredded SPorts Science is good, and there's one called More Plates More Dates, who makes vids on what gear he reckons people are on.

James from Shredded Sports Science is one smart cookie and the only other guy whose videos i will watch is Jeff Cavaliere of AthleanX.
A lot of his stuff is based around the movement during the exercise, not just weight.

[Pvapour]

MC Bodge said:

Halb said:

Well that's certainly put me off wanting it!
But actually, I am extremely tempted....I doubt I have low test though, I lift and run regularly, I am currently not what I consider fit, but currently parkrun is around 27 mins at around 255. But really, not sure if I would wan to stay on it for life, or if I could do it part time for 'boosts'. I don't like the idea of future issues, also the cost....

I would say don't do it.

I'm at the age at which I know my strength and fitness is going to start deteriorating more noticeably, and I'm not looking forward to it, but taking drugs that might result in major health problems in later life doesn't seem worth it.

Keep training and living a healthy life, and grow older gracefully and with as much capability as you can, naturally.

Nice to read someone saying something sensible.

Please remember to train for health and not vanity, its not about bragging rights with weight numbers or times, these numbers should be used for measuring your progress or your rate of decline, nothing more.

I understand TRT is sometime prescribed for unusually low T but beware there is always action/reaction in effect and its not only the ‘good feeling & better performance’

I think ageing and its effects on the body are there to be understood, accepted and duly embraced, work with it and not against it, use your years of learning & be proud of what You’ve achieved and still are achieving (naturally) dont undo all those years of hard efforts in the gym by being weak or lazy, you should be proud of where you are, you wont feel the same if you use drugs and you certainly wont look the same to others (in a bad way) if thats important to you.

[ORD]

If there are no long term adverse effects, it’s a no-brainer. There’s nothing noble about getting older. It’s slow death, literally.

[Pvapour]

ORD said:

If there are no long term adverse effects, it’s a no-brainer. There’s nothing noble about getting older. It’s slow death, literally.

We're dying the day we’re born, whats your point?

The way we grow older can be noble imo but each to their own.. There’s always effects, people who take have just yet to learn what they are

I started like allot on here at 15 years old, i watched my peers of then 25-35 years old, grow old over time and now i see them at 65 - 75 years old, those who trained naturally are in far better shape, some were natural until their 40s then started test, some other drugs, now 70s and none are in the best of health, not dead and still look ok but show signs that the natural guys dont, their bodies look tired in a way natural doesnt.

Over 35 years you build a massive range of people youve met and watched and I have to go by what i see.

If you dont have this experience then i understand your point of view and youre certainly entitled to it.

Stay natural, stay noble (to use your word)

[dai1983]

I have an ex colleague who is hench AF and has recently won a load of body building competitions.

He’s always on SM hawking various fitness stuff and saying how much work he puts in despite 2 kids and a full time job. I don’t dispute the hours he puts in but he’s obviously geared up to the eyeballs. Can’t believe people fall for it and buy the stuff he’s promoting

[BigMon]

MC Bodge said:

I would say don't do it.

I'm at the age at which I know my strength and fitness is going to start deteriorating more noticeably, and I'm not looking forward to it, but taking drugs that might result in major health problems in later life doesn't seem worth it.

Keep training and living a healthy life, and grow older gracefully and with as much capability as you can, naturally.

Amen to that. Never taken anything apart from protein powder and creatine and will never take anything more than that.

I'm 47 and can already notice a big difference to when i trained in my late teens\twenties but I have no trouble accepting it (apart from the injuries which heal much slower).

I just hope I can continue to train for as long as I can and know that the intensity of what I can do will continue to reduce but that's fine. For me the gym is much more than 'getting shredded', it's lifting your mood when you're feeling down, having a laugh with mates, looking in the mirror and seeing noticeable results, etc, etc.

Hopefully that will never change.

[popeyewhite]

ORD said:

If there are no long term adverse effects, it’s a no-brainer.

There are long term adverse effects, if you're very careful and mentally strong most will only be psychological. There is always a cost with anything you stick in your body.

ORD said:

There’s nothing noble about getting older. It’s slow death, literally.

Yep, it's horrible. But do you want to get older as you, or as someone altered mentally? Once you've tried the elixir of feeling like a teenager in the gym, growing like a weed, wanting to shag day and night and lifting beyond your wildest dreams it's kind of hard to back away from. Or do you figure a quick couple of short cycles to blast through some sticking points, gain half a stone of lean mass and look hench is worth it? If you're strong... .

[ORD]

I think there’s a misunderstanding here. A very modest dose of T will bring you back to your baseline. So you won’t feel like a teenager or grow like a weed. The problem is that most people overdose dramatically and turn it into a mild cycle, rather than simply getting back to normal.

If there are adverse effects, that’s a different story. But I don’t see any value in getting older.

[TheJimi]

Referencing Popeye's point about feeling like a teenager in the gym, the odd thing is, long term use at the growing like a weed level, can and does make you look older than you are.

Edited by TheJimi on Sunday 26th January 11:48

[ORD]

TheJimi said:

Referencing Popeye's point about feeling like a teenager in the gym, the odd thing is, long term use at the growing like a weed level, can and does make you look older than you are.

Edited by TheJimi on Sunday 26th January 11:48

Test does accelerate some aspects of ageing (skin quality, for example). So I guess there’s always an element of swings and roundabouts.

I’m not aware of any serious adverse effects from very low dose T. My guess it would benefit lots of middle aged men.