Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agreed that shop bought bread is often, erm, not the best.A fair number of people exclude it from their diet - I was surprised that you do while eating croissants, hot cross buns and scones.
And having noticed the scone bit, that has got me thinking about them with a big dollop of Roddas on top
TameRacingDriver said:
Must admit I feel bloated if I eat too much bread but it's occurred to me that it's the cornerstone of many meals I have.
Sandwiches, egg on toast, beans on toast, curries with nan, pizza. I like bread but I'm not convinced it likes me. See also, beer.
Beer=liquid bread.Sandwiches, egg on toast, beans on toast, curries with nan, pizza. I like bread but I'm not convinced it likes me. See also, beer.
Anonymous-poster said:
The part where you say it’s not possible to burn off 1000 calories with exercise is total rubbish!
I don't think so, burning off an excess 1000 calories a day over an extended period of time (say a month, so an additional 31000 calories) is no small ask. In any case the principle of the argument remains, we can fiddle with the numbers if you like. For example, if someone was immobile and fed 500 calories a day for a month they would lose weight, if you fed someone 5000 extra calories a day for a month and asked them to exercise it off they would gain weight.
We all know that if you are immobile and don't eat very much you lose weight - we know this because most people have experience periods of sickness where they have lost weight despite doing bugger all because they are not eating. I lost 10kg or so last year through sickness, I only weighed 70kg at the start of it and had visible upper abs so it is not like I had a load of excess fat to burn.
We also know that active people can easily gain weight if they eat too much. Again, many of us have experienced periods like that.
To have something most people learn through experience backed up with data seems like a good thing to me.
The current situation in the west of exercise being tied to weight management (and not physical and mental well being) means that people who take to exercise to lose weight fail, and when they fail they reject exercise wholesale because it didn't work as advertised and give up on their weight loss.
That's a double blow - they would have been better off doing exercise because they wanted the health benefits which come to some extent what ever your weight or changed their diet to manage their weight loss because those health benefits come without exercise - or done both in a such a way that their expectations are managed.
Also - the rise of fit bits and smart watches and fitness tracking is great but the information is incomplete. You see it on the diet threads here all the time, people who did an hour of cycling and burned an extra 600 calories so they are going to treat them selves with a bottle of wine or what ever. That just isn't how it works, and if that was more widely known then perhaps more people could actually achieve their goals.
Britain is a nation of fatties now. I am all for anything that helps to change that.
MC Bodge said:
Don't over-do it (many of us have been guilty of it, I have) -Destroying your body in the process is counter-productive.
This gives a good summary (that can be tailored to individuals):
7 Steps To Paleo Fitness: Why Exercise Is Not Enough
This is more or less exactly what I have gone back to from the start of this year. I got into a bit of a rut with resistance training, 5 days a week and not much steady state cardio as my typical cycling to work and lots of walking had stopped over the winter.This gives a good summary (that can be tailored to individuals):
7 Steps To Paleo Fitness: Why Exercise Is Not Enough
Going back to 3 days of resistance training, 1 day of sprinting and some walking every day feels great.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1200726/
Interesting one for the Keto zealots..... a diet consisting of 90-95% carbs, resulting in massive fat loss for obese patients. The exact type of people who are ‘insulin resistant’... eating carbs (That only get stored as fat when there’s raised insulin, according to the insulin obesity theory)
Nah, they were in a calorie deficit, and lost a s
t load of fat- eating nothing but carbs. Go figure! Was rice in this case. Could have been bread, or sweets, or any carb- because it’s the deficit that counts.
So- carbs don’t really make you fat. Unless you eat to many (usually along with too much fat in hyperpalitable foods)
That’s an old one, but a good example. There are loadssss more modern ones
Interesting one for the Keto zealots..... a diet consisting of 90-95% carbs, resulting in massive fat loss for obese patients. The exact type of people who are ‘insulin resistant’... eating carbs (That only get stored as fat when there’s raised insulin, according to the insulin obesity theory)
Nah, they were in a calorie deficit, and lost a s
t load of fat- eating nothing but carbs. Go figure! Was rice in this case. Could have been bread, or sweets, or any carb- because it’s the deficit that counts.So- carbs don’t really make you fat. Unless you eat to many (usually along with too much fat in hyperpalitable foods)
That’s an old one, but a good example. There are loadssss more modern ones
gregs656 said:
MC Bodge said:
Don't over-do it (many of us have been guilty of it, I have) -Destroying your body in the process is counter-productive.
This gives a good summary (that can be tailored to individuals):
7 Steps To Paleo Fitness: Why Exercise Is Not Enough
This is more or less exactly what I have gone back to from the start of this year. I got into a bit of a rut with resistance training, 5 days a week and not much steady state cardio as my typical cycling to work and lots of walking had stopped over the winter.This gives a good summary (that can be tailored to individuals):
7 Steps To Paleo Fitness: Why Exercise Is Not Enough
Going back to 3 days of resistance training, 1 day of sprinting and some walking every day feels great.
Interesting (the triangle). I've ended up pretty much doing that just because I noticed when I pushed too much, I either got injured or just ached too much all the time. Exercise of a non-sport/fun variety is pretty doable when it's mainly moderate like this.
All bets are off once we're allowed to play tennis again, and I'll be playing for 2-3 hours every 4-5 days because it's fun!
All bets are off once we're allowed to play tennis again, and I'll be playing for 2-3 hours every 4-5 days because it's fun!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not just that. As per that famous lecture, when the juice of a fruit is eaten without the actual whole part, the body doesn't process it the same way as it would if you were eating fruit.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
gregs656 said:
Anonymous-poster said:
The part where you say it’s not possible to burn off 1000 calories with exercise is total rubbish!
I don't think so, burning off an excess 1000 calories a day over an extended period of time (say a month, so an additional 31000 calories) is no small ask. In any case the principle of the argument remains, we can fiddle with the numbers if you like. For example, if someone was immobile and fed 500 calories a day for a month they would lose weight, if you fed someone 5000 extra calories a day for a month and asked them to exercise it off they would gain weight.
We all know that if you are immobile and don't eat very much you lose weight - we know this because most people have experience periods of sickness where they have lost weight despite doing bugger all because they are not eating. I lost 10kg or so last year through sickness, I only weighed 70kg at the start of it and had visible upper abs so it is not like I had a load of excess fat to burn.
We also know that active people can easily gain weight if they eat too much. Again, many of us have experienced periods like that.
To have something most people learn through experience backed up with data seems like a good thing to me.
The current situation in the west of exercise being tied to weight management (and not physical and mental well being) means that people who take to exercise to lose weight fail, and when they fail they reject exercise wholesale because it didn't work as advertised and give up on their weight loss.
That's a double blow - they would have been better off doing exercise because they wanted the health benefits which come to some extent what ever your weight or changed their diet to manage their weight loss because those health benefits come without exercise - or done both in a such a way that their expectations are managed.
Also - the rise of fit bits and smart watches and fitness tracking is great but the information is incomplete. You see it on the diet threads here all the time, people who did an hour of cycling and burned an extra 600 calories so they are going to treat them selves with a bottle of wine or what ever. That just isn't how it works, and if that was more widely known then perhaps more people could actually achieve their goals.
Britain is a nation of fatties now. I am all for anything that helps to change that.
If I cycle for just over 1 hr per day either on a trainer or outside I can burn 1000 calories and walking briskly can burn maybe 250-300 ph so burning calories can be done but if you want to lose weight then you must watch how many calories you stuff into your face as as the saying goes “you can’t out train a bad diet” but you can burn off 1000 calories if you are committed but wasting your time if as you say you are eating 5000 extra per day!
Anonymous-poster said:
as the saying goes “you can’t out train a bad diet”
Just a quick comment on this misconceived constantly popping-up phrase: When I was running competitively I knew many runners who loved beer, pies, chips, curry etc. Whilst it's true they didn't stuff their face, it's also true they paid scant regard to calorie or portion control and they let their energy expenditure from training take care of all the calories. If you devote enough time to your exercise of choice you can actually out train a bad diet. More or less, anyway.Hoofy said:
Interesting (the triangle). I've ended up pretty much doing that just because I noticed when I pushed too much, I either got injured or just ached too much all the time. Exercise of a non-sport/fun variety is pretty doable when it's mainly moderate like this.
All bets are off once we're allowed to play tennis again, and I'll be playing for 2-3 hours every 4-5 days because it's fun!
It's fine to play tennis, it's just important to maintain a bit of balance.All bets are off once we're allowed to play tennis again, and I'll be playing for 2-3 hours every 4-5 days because it's fun!
popeyewhite said:
Just a quick comment on this misconceived constantly popping-up phrase: When I was running competitively I knew many runners who loved beer, pies, chips, curry etc. Whilst it's true they didn't stuff their face, it's also true they paid scant regard to calorie or portion control and they let their energy expenditure from training take care of all the calories. If you devote enough time to your exercise of choice you can actually out train a bad diet. More or less, anyway.
I’d agree with this, the issue is that people don’t train commensurately to their bad diet 
Not that they *can’t* out train it. If you consistently train hard you can put away a lot of calories.For most though, the saying holds water.
MC Bodge said:
Hoofy said:
Interesting (the triangle). I've ended up pretty much doing that just because I noticed when I pushed too much, I either got injured or just ached too much all the time. Exercise of a non-sport/fun variety is pretty doable when it's mainly moderate like this.
All bets are off once we're allowed to play tennis again, and I'll be playing for 2-3 hours every 4-5 days because it's fun!
It's fine to play tennis, it's just important to maintain a bit of balance.All bets are off once we're allowed to play tennis again, and I'll be playing for 2-3 hours every 4-5 days because it's fun!
popeyewhite said:
Anonymous-poster said:
as the saying goes “you can’t out train a bad diet”
Just a quick comment on this misconceived constantly popping-up phrase: When I was running competitively I knew many runners who loved beer, pies, chips, curry etc. Whilst it's true they didn't stuff their face, it's also true they paid scant regard to calorie or portion control and they let their energy expenditure from training take care of all the calories. If you devote enough time to your exercise of choice you can actually out train a bad diet. More or less, anyway.Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff