Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?
Discussion
otolith said:
parakitaMol. said:
He does not prefer any model!!! That's the whole point.. He prefers that the whole landscape was not totally and utterly skewed by politicians and academics who are not in the field of real actual medicine. Chris Smith talks the most sense of anyone who has been given airtime.
Right - so how would people in the field of real actual medicine predict the necessary response to the pandemic without the use of mathematics? parakitaMol. said:
otolith said:
parakitaMol. said:
He does not prefer any model!!! That's the whole point.. He prefers that the whole landscape was not totally and utterly skewed by politicians and academics who are not in the field of real actual medicine. Chris Smith talks the most sense of anyone who has been given airtime.
Right - so how would people in the field of real actual medicine predict the necessary response to the pandemic without the use of mathematics? parakitaMol. said:
otolith said:
parakitaMol. said:
He does not prefer any model!!! That's the whole point.. He prefers that the whole landscape was not totally and utterly skewed by politicians and academics who are not in the field of real actual medicine. Chris Smith talks the most sense of anyone who has been given airtime.
Right - so how would people in the field of real actual medicine predict the necessary response to the pandemic without the use of mathematics? The only winning move is to not play.
parakitaMol. said:
otolith said:
parakitaMol. said:
He does not prefer any model!!! That's the whole point.. He prefers that the whole landscape was not totally and utterly skewed by politicians and academics who are not in the field of real actual medicine. Chris Smith talks the most sense of anyone who has been given airtime.
Right - so how would people in the field of real actual medicine predict the necessary response to the pandemic without the use of mathematics? I haven't found a medical reason yet to take the vaccine. I'm too young to be considered at risk from Covid. I have no morbidities (that I know of). So for me it's a medicine I don't need. I was always taught (and have stood by) only to take medicines if I needed them.
There is an argument that taking the vaccine will help prevent me spreading Covid, and therefore protect the vulnerable. In isolation that might be true, but in reality the vulnerable are more likely than not to have been fully vaccinated (and so they should). There is also a suggestion that the vaccinated may still be able to transmit the virus. These limit the strength of argument in support of my needing to be vaccinated to protect others. On this basis I don't agree with the notion that my refusal is unreasonably (or realistically) putting others at risk or selfish.
There is an argument that taking the vaccine will help prevent me spreading Covid, and therefore protect the vulnerable. In isolation that might be true, but in reality the vulnerable are more likely than not to have been fully vaccinated (and so they should). There is also a suggestion that the vaccinated may still be able to transmit the virus. These limit the strength of argument in support of my needing to be vaccinated to protect others. On this basis I don't agree with the notion that my refusal is unreasonably (or realistically) putting others at risk or selfish.
APontus said:
There is an argument that taking the vaccine will help prevent me spreading Covid, and therefore protect the vulnerable. In isolation that might be true, but in reality the vulnerable are more likely than not to have been fully vaccinated (and so they should). There is also a suggestion that the vaccinated may still be able to transmit the virus. These limit the strength of argument in support of my needing to be vaccinated to protect others. On this basis I don't agree with the notion that my refusal is unreasonably (or realistically) putting others at risk or selfish.
There are all sorts of "arguments", changed seemingly on a whim. The government just seem happy to announce anything that plausibly sounds like it would justify the policy they are announcing today. Thus masks alternately don't work and then work. Vaccines simultaneously work and don't work. This is what limits the strength of any argument they put forward to me, and while wearing masks for short periods is probably low risk, taking a shiny new vaccine definitely is not.All my kids have Covid at the moment. I've just tested positive this morning despite being double-vaccinated. It's extremely unpleasant for them, I've spent the last two days listening to my five month old baby wheeze and cough. Its nothing like a cold.
I'm not even "vulnerable" and I got re-infected. I really would not be so confident I was the only one, so I wouldn't be so confident of the protection offered to the most needing of it. You really could still spread and kill someone.
Having the vaccine reduces the risk of spreading to others, and there's a real human cost here outside only concentrating on whether we die or not, having the vaccine remains the socially responsible thing to do.
Despite all these pages of non-sense, there's still not a single sensible reason not to take it, it's all cowardice and ignorance.
I'm not even "vulnerable" and I got re-infected. I really would not be so confident I was the only one, so I wouldn't be so confident of the protection offered to the most needing of it. You really could still spread and kill someone.
Having the vaccine reduces the risk of spreading to others, and there's a real human cost here outside only concentrating on whether we die or not, having the vaccine remains the socially responsible thing to do.
Despite all these pages of non-sense, there's still not a single sensible reason not to take it, it's all cowardice and ignorance.
parakitaMol. said:
otolith said:
That’s literally all a model is.
Oh ok - no data thenYou feed the data you have into your model to estimate the outcomes.
Prof Prolapse said:
All my kids have Covid at the moment. I've just tested positive this morning despite being double-vaccinated. It's extremely unpleasant for them, I've spent the last two days listening to my five month old baby wheeze and cough. Its nothing like a cold.
I'm not even "vulnerable" and I got re-infected. I really would not be so confident I was the only one, so I wouldn't be so confident of the protection offered to the most needing of it. You really could still spread and kill someone.
Having the vaccine reduces the risk of spreading to others, and there's a real human cost here outside only concentrating on whether we die or not, having the vaccine remains the socially responsible thing to do.
Despite all these pages of non-sense, there's still not a single sensible reason not to take it, it's all cowardice and ignorance.
I wish you and your kids a swift recovery. I'm not even "vulnerable" and I got re-infected. I really would not be so confident I was the only one, so I wouldn't be so confident of the protection offered to the most needing of it. You really could still spread and kill someone.
Having the vaccine reduces the risk of spreading to others, and there's a real human cost here outside only concentrating on whether we die or not, having the vaccine remains the socially responsible thing to do.
Despite all these pages of non-sense, there's still not a single sensible reason not to take it, it's all cowardice and ignorance.
I've young children and have spent time in A&E/overnights with them being ill following severe allergic reactions, seizures and croup that wasn't responding to treatment. It's never anything other than worrying.
However, isolated anecdotal examples aren't a good basis for forming a principle. Would I put my children at risk from a new vaccine solely to protect yours and others from Covid? No. My duty of care is to my own children first.
Prof Prolapse said:
You really could still spread and kill someone.
Having the vaccine reduces the risk of spreading to others, and there's a real human cost here outside only concentrating on whether we die or not, having the vaccine remains the socially responsible thing to do.
Despite all these pages of non-sense, there's still not a single sensible reason not to take it, it's all cowardice and ignorance.
And even if vaccinated you really could still spread it and kill someone.Having the vaccine reduces the risk of spreading to others, and there's a real human cost here outside only concentrating on whether we die or not, having the vaccine remains the socially responsible thing to do.
Despite all these pages of non-sense, there's still not a single sensible reason not to take it, it's all cowardice and ignorance.
At some point, probably soon, everyone whether vaccinated or not will get reinfected at some point. And this will likely continue forever unless you think eradication is possible.
People who are most at risk are to a very large degree already protected from serious illness by an extremely effective vaccine. Attempting to force/coerce or guilt everyone regardless of risk to jab up at this point is not going to meaningfully change the course of the virus from now as it settles to an endemic state in the human population like any number of other respiratory illnesses unless you wish to fight the forever covid war suppressing infections for all eternity.
isaldiri said:
And even if vaccinated you really could still spread it and kill someone.
At some point, probably soon, everyone whether vaccinated or not will get reinfected at some point. And this will likely continue forever unless you think eradication is possible.
People who are most at risk are to a very large degree already protected from serious illness by an extremely effective vaccine. Attempting to force/coerce or guilt everyone regardless of risk to jab up at this point is not going to meaningfully change the course of the virus from now as it settles to an endemic state in the human population like any number of other respiratory illnesses unless you wish to fight the forever covid war suppressing infections for all eternity.
If you can't eliminate something 100% that doesn't mean you don't bother at all.At some point, probably soon, everyone whether vaccinated or not will get reinfected at some point. And this will likely continue forever unless you think eradication is possible.
People who are most at risk are to a very large degree already protected from serious illness by an extremely effective vaccine. Attempting to force/coerce or guilt everyone regardless of risk to jab up at this point is not going to meaningfully change the course of the virus from now as it settles to an endemic state in the human population like any number of other respiratory illnesses unless you wish to fight the forever covid war suppressing infections for all eternity.
It will be interesting how the pro-vaxxers (I'm looking at you Prolapse and Pushfit) try to discredit this expert and his views, expecially when the views he is expressing are similar to many of us on here
https://twitter.com/rwjdingwall/status/14101774538...
I'm going to guess they will take one of three approaches:
1) Climb back into their hole and ignore this
2) Attack the poster
3) Diversion by implying there are no similarities.
https://twitter.com/rwjdingwall/status/14101774538...
I'm going to guess they will take one of three approaches:
1) Climb back into their hole and ignore this
2) Attack the poster
3) Diversion by implying there are no similarities.
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