Do I need any carbs?

[grumbledoak]

Brave Fart said:

I'm not disputing what you say; I am happy to be educated. But I've always been told that a balanced diet is wise - including carbs of course. And I'm sure I've always been told that fibre is, well, a Good Thing, and the more of it you consume the better. I had a procedure recently to remove a colon polyp. The consultant was very keen to tell me that I should eat more fibre as a preventative measure. You appear to suggest the opposite.

I think a lot of things that have passed into common knowledge in the area simply aren't true. Some of them appear to come from misinformation from food producers exaggerating the benefits of their product or the harms of competing products. Everyone wants to be healthy, so you advertise your product as more healthy than the competition. You don't focus on facts. You sell what you got. If your product is high in fibre and low in fat you will want people to believe that fibre is great and fat will kill you. Sound familiar?

Ask yourself - if it is indigestible, why am I eating it? We don't advocate eating rocks or Lego bricks, but they've the same nutritional content to us. Any mental image you may have of your colon needing a good scrubbing is quite wrong. And when we ferment the cellulose in our colons like gorillas - and we do - we can't ingest any of the by-products at that end. We just get all the wind and none of the vitamins. Unless you want to really make like the gorillas. You'll want mouthwash.

[Teddy Lop]

otolith said:

What's your feeling on the association between low fibre diets and bowel cancer risk?

Have the studies eliminated all other risks?

The "red meat causes cancer" claim is shown to be false as the rates are similar when other lifestyle factors are ruled out, such as smoking, drinking, poor excercise etc, but on average people with a health conscious approach to diet will look after themselves in these other regards than the "average" red meat eater. I'd expect given what constitutes fibre intake the same flaw will apply where generalised figures are used.

[didelydoo]

You don’t need carbs to survive.

But you don’t need cars, shoes, phones, fancy houses or pistonheads to survive.

Just because you don’t *need* something, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea not to have it.

If you’re looking to perform better physically, carbs are a good idea.

[otolith]

I haven’t read the primary literature, so I don’t know whether the advice given by the medical profession is correct - I assume that those asserting that we don’t need fibre have done so and can offer a critique.

[king arthur]

grumbledoak said:

I think a lot of things that have passed into common knowledge in the area simply aren't true. Some of them appear to come from misinformation from food producers exaggerating the benefits of their product or the harms of competing products.

Indeed, allegedly the idea that too many eggs is bad for you came from the cereal manufacturers who wanted people to switch from eating eggs for breakfast to eating their cereals, and it worked.

[PistonBroker]

sjabrown said:

Ditch the filler and you end up with a healthier diet and probably some weight loss.

My M-i-L was complaining that she needs to lose some weight - she can't move about too much with arthritis and a dodgy knee - but I was gobsmacked by her solution when my wife asked her what she'd had for lunch that day - just a bit of bread and butter and a tomato!

I suspect suggesting to her that the ham from the sandwich, on top of the tomato and perhaps some lettuce, was a better idea would have blown her mind!

[Brave Fart]

grumbledoak said:

I think a lot of things that have passed into common knowledge in the area simply aren't true. Some of them appear to come from misinformation from food producers exaggerating the benefits of their product or the harms of competing products. Everyone wants to be healthy, so you advertise your product as more healthy than the competition. You don't focus on facts. You sell what you got. If your product is high in fibre and low in fat you will want people to believe that fibre is great and fat will kill you. Sound familiar?

Ask yourself - if it is indigestible, why am I eating it? We don't advocate eating rocks or Lego bricks, but they've the same nutritional content to us. Any mental image you may have of your colon needing a good scrubbing is quite wrong. And when we ferment the cellulose in our colons like gorillas - and we do - we can't ingest any of the by-products at that end. We just get all the wind and none of the vitamins. Unless you want to really make like the gorillas. You'll want mouthwash.

Point taken about the food industry, but when a consultant doctor tells me something, I tend to take it more seriously than a food manufacturer trying to sell me something. I don't recall any health professional ever saying "fibre has no benefit, in fact it just makes you flatulent". Quite the opposite. Like I said, I'm open minded on this, but by saying "you might as well eat Lego" you do appear to be going against the grain somewhat (pun intended).

[Teddy Lop]

Brave Fart said:

Point taken about the food industry, but when a consultant doctor tells me something, I tend to take it more seriously than a food manufacturer trying to sell me something. I don't recall any health professional ever saying "fibre has no benefit, in fact it just makes you flatulent". Quite the opposite. Like I said, I'm open minded on this, but by saying "you might as well eat Lego" you do appear to be going against the grain somewhat (pun intended).

Are doctors allowed, or advised against going off-piste with advice?

The feedback I've received on such things as low-carb/keto diets is your GP will never bring it up as advice, but if you mention you're on one they're perfectly happy and don't advise against it, even though the official guidance is a conventional low fat diet is healthier and that's what they'd advise you without falter.

[MrBarry123]

grumbledoak said:

Ask yourself - if it is indigestible, why am I eating it? We don't advocate eating rocks or Lego bricks, but they've the same nutritional content to us. Any mental image you may have of your colon needing a good scrubbing is quite wrong. And when we ferment the cellulose in our colons like gorillas - and we do - we can't ingest any of the by-products at that end. We just get all the wind and none of the vitamins. Unless you want to really make like the gorillas. You'll want mouthwash.

That’s a ridiculous assertion.

Unless there’s been a major shift in our understanding of what insoluble fibre does, it’s accepted that insoluble fibre adds bulk to our stools and therefore poo more easily.

Even the websites promoting keto diets suggest maintaining a reasonable level of insoluble fibre in any diet.

[grumbledoak]

Brave Fart said:

Point taken about the food industry, but when a consultant doctor tells me something, I tend to take it more seriously than a food manufacturer trying to sell me something. I don't recall any health professional ever saying "fibre has no benefit, in fact it just makes you flatulent". Quite the opposite. Like I said, I'm open minded on this, but by saying "you might as well eat Lego" you do appear to be going against the grain somewhat (pun intended).

The food industry advertising isn't limited to TV ads with Tony the Tiger. Public Health is a partnership with industry. Lots of "nutrition science" money supplied by industry. The Food Pyramid is designed "with" industry, etc.

And doctors are as immersed in the same murky information soup as the rest of us. If it isn't a specialism or a personal interest, the last time they thought about nutrition was in a short course twenty years ago.

[didelydoo]

Fung and Taubes (the two biggest Keto names, arguably) literally make their living selling you the Keto solution. Yet if you read the link I posted earlier, he (Fung) is taken apart and he false information and straight out lies are exposed.

Keto is big business too.

[gregs656]

didelydoo said:

Fung and Taubes (the two biggest Keto names, arguably) literally make their living selling you the Keto solution. Yet if you read the link I posted earlier, he (Fung) is taken apart and he false information and straight out lies are exposed.

Keto is big business too.

You are not going to convince the keto evangelists. It's just not going to happen.

When I think of the really healthy people I have known, people who have been fit and healthy over long periods, not elite athletes or what ever but people who work a full time job; none of them have had particularly restrictive diets or seemingly paid much attention to their diet at all.

[grumbledoak]

didelydoo said:

Fung and Taubes (the two biggest Keto names, arguably) literally make their living selling you the Keto solution. Yet if you read the link I posted earlier, he (Fung) is taken apart and he false information and straight out lies are exposed.

Jason "The Code" Fung is Mr Fasting, as far as I know. I've never read any but this has *lots* of stars -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Obesity-Code-unlocking-se...

Gary Taubes is keto / anti sugar. A minnow by comparison but this was worth a read -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Get-Fat-Gary-Taubes/d...

Biolayne, of course, is above lowly financial concerns -
https://biolaynestore.com/collections/mens

You pays your money, you makes your choices...

[didelydoo]

grumbledoak said:

Jason "The Code" Fung is Mr Fasting, as far as I know. I've never read any but this has *lots* of stars -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Obesity-Code-unlocking-se...

Gary Taubes is keto / anti sugar. A minnow by comparison but this was worth a read -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Get-Fat-Gary-Taubes/d...

Biolayne, of course, is above lowly financial concerns -
https://biolaynestore.com/collections/mens

You pays your money, you makes your choices...

Well they all need to make money... however- The studies biolayne references (there are many many studies) are unbiased and controlled, and not his own. The other two.... well.

[drmike37]

Part of the problem is that almost all of the research into nutrition has historically been funded by large food companies. You can make a study say whatever you want if you ask the question carefully. Then there’s always been massive publication bias to support whatever agenda.
I do believe that carbs are highly addictive, bad for us in anything but small quantities, and make some big industry a lot of money.

[markcoznottz]

Brave Fart said:

grumbledoak said:

There are no essential carbohydrates, and it can extract energy perfectly well from fat or protein, both of which are essential.

Fibre is another surprise. We cannot digest it, and we don't need indigestible stuff irritating our colons. Nothing will happen if you never eat that again, either. Some people with unexplained IBS will find that removing fibre cures it.

I'm not disputing what you say; I am happy to be educated. But I've always been told that a balanced diet is wise - including carbs of course. And I'm sure I've always been told that fibre is, well, a Good Thing, and the more of it you consume the better. I had a procedure recently to remove a colon polyp. The consultant was very keen to tell me that I should eat more fibre as a preventative measure. You appear to suggest the opposite.

Wheat based diet, cereals for breakfast , is an American import post ww2. The human body does not need fibre.

[Teddy Lop]

didelydoo said:

Fung and Taubes (the two biggest Keto names, arguably) literally make their living selling you the Keto solution. Yet if you read the link I posted earlier, he (Fung) is taken apart and he false information and straight out lies are exposed.

Keto is big business too.

I don't know anything of these people but there isn't a discussion out there that doesn't have a) evangelising freaks at the peripheries and b) those who can't seem to look past these extreme positions to the motivations of the majority of norms.

Mainstream thinking in diet is like anything dominated by vested interests set to lose by any change, that's not conspiracy, it's just how societies are run, people buy into an ideology and thus need to endorse it. Radicals disrupt things and make people uncomfortable.

[MC Bodge]

Eat relatively unprocessed meat, fish, plenty of different vegetables, some whole fruits, nuts, eggs and go easy on the stodge based on wheat, corn, rice, potatoes and the like, but there's no need for total prohibition as far as I can tell.

Try to avoid the habit of chomping those snacks, that are so carefully designed to appeal to you & add unnecessary fuel, between meals. Don't add sugar to things through habit.

Don't eat too much.

Humans are omnivores.