The misery of lower back pain

[Evoluzione]

SlimJim16v said:

I've been seeing osteopaths for 30 years. Never had a bad experience and always improve my pain greatly.

I have however been to a crap physio.

Is it value for money if after 30yrs you're still paying for it?
I wonder if you've added it up to a total with no cure.

[steve2]

Having had a spinal fusion in 2004 which has helped me no end, 4 years ago I started getting really bad back pain which I took co-coda lo for and regular trips to a phisio who has been looking after my back for many years.
So I have seen 3 different surgeons and spent a small fortune on injections, scans etc but nothing seemed to work so I asked the last doctor if it could be something else and he sent me to another colleague who did a scan of my organs and he found a very large kidney stone which explained why some days I would be on the floor crying with the pain.
Have had 2 operations now and pleased to say no major pain since, still get a pain now and again but as I’m shifting and lifting carpets around I have to accept that it will happen, so ge5 a scan to make sure it is not a kidney stone .

[SlimJim16v]

Evoluzione said:

Is it value for money if after 30yrs you're still paying for it?
I wonder if you've added it up to a total with no cure.

It's fked. When it gets really bad, the osteopath gets it back to normal.

[Evoluzione]

SlimJim16v said:

Evoluzione said:

Is it value for money if after 30yrs you're still paying for it?
I wonder if you've added it up to a total with no cure.

It's fked. When it gets really bad, the osteopath gets it back to normal.

What is it out of interest? I'm told mine is Osteoarthritis, but i'm not so sure. It's always ached, but got bad after a couple of self inflicted 'events', so i'm on permanent painkillers for it as per an earlier poster.
J. Whelan has similar issues, you'll remember him? We meet up now and again.

[m3jappa]

smashy said:

Hello M3 well not clear cut all those told me I had hip arthritis and I couldnt believe it including an nhs physio telling me and a chiro xray ,I was in trouble, back and both hips, last september in cornwall having to tell my partner I cant walk any further was crushing had to sit on a wall a real low point None of them would believe me that I reckon I pulled my sacro iliac joint weight training and it all stemmed from that.

What took me to a depressed state was a top london physio ,I remembered his shock wave therapy cured my achilles tendons after again 2 years of therapy at different places.I went to him ,he also told me I had hip arthritis and to bite the bullit and go and see my gp and you know the rest hip replacement.....

I found someone else who gave me 5 shockwave treatments on the sacro iliac area and it did not touch it.Some days during my covid walk I could not wait to get back and lay on my bed my legs were so weak never mind the overall pains During that last year I did every stretching exercise I was given for 45 mins a day every day but never helped at all.



So my research continued so I saw the guy at pro health in bedford with his prolozone.He looked at my xrays and said to him it looked like normal wear and tear . He believed my story about my sacro iliac joint whacked the needles all around it also used very high power electo magnetic pulse therapy he said I would need 3 treatments. I cannot tell you what its like to walk around pain free including both hips all gone got to know him and we would have good chats it really is a wonderful system, Not cheap but then again nor was 24 consecutive chiro treatments that were a total waste of time or 3 months of physio or weeks of osteopathy.They all told me it was hip arthritis and they were all wrong and I knew as well in my heart and would not accept it. Oliver told me before covid people came from all over europe for his treatment which he learnt in the States

Edited by smashy on Friday 23 July 23:15

Interesting stuff and im glad to hear your better! I might give them a call on monday.

I cant find out much about it except a couple of articles saying its controversial but only giving speculative reasons. The thing is we all know that various treatments aren't put on the nhs for all sorts of reasons (usually cost) and as such they are then rubbished when in reality they are the answer.

[Silverage]

I went through the 30 min online pilates thing twice yesterday. I was stiffer than ever when I woke up this morning. I’ve just done it again and it’s remarkable how much it loosens things up. Obviously it will take a while for it to fix whatever the underlying cause is, if it is going to, so I’ll stick with it for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

[Douglas Quaid]

gweaver said:

I had very persistent mid back issues until I started doing deadlifts (properly). Technique is important, the weight isn't.

That was what I was going to suggest but for some reason it got ignored by the op. If you don’t have a strong core then your back will hurt. That’s life. Not too tough to strengthen it though.

[ColdoRS]

Douglas Quaid said:

gweaver said:

I had very persistent mid back issues until I started doing deadlifts (properly). Technique is important, the weight isn't.

That was what I was going to suggest but for some reason it got ignored by the op. If you don’t have a strong core then your back will hurt. That’s life. Not too tough to strengthen it though.

Pretty much what I was getting at in my earlier post in this thread. Everyone on this planet should deadlift!!!

People can reactively do what the physio told them when their back starts to hurt then claim ‘oh physio doesn’t work for me’… but the key is doing this physio or some kind of strength work consistently and routinely, to avoid the injury in the first place.

The world strongest man competitors (extreme example!) lift incredibly awkward, incredibly heavy objects with incredibly ‘poor form’ at times - yet very few of them go down with bad backs, because their core is freakishly strong.

[popeyewhite]

sociopath said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Chiropractors and Osteopaths are various shades of alternative medicine woo.

Go to a physiotherapist instead.

Have to agree.

Physiotherapy is no panacea either. The efficacy of muscular massage in healing has never really been proven (although it helps nerve compression), and remember ultrasound? Complete bunk. The correct light exercise and light stretches should all work in time providing the injury is tissue not bone.

[Louis Balfour]

popeyewhite said:

sociopath said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Chiropractors and Osteopaths are various shades of alternative medicine woo.

Go to a physiotherapist instead.

Have to agree.

Physiotherapy is no panacea either. The efficacy of muscular massage in healing has never really been proven (although it helps nerve compression), and remember ultrasound? Complete bunk. The correct light exercise and light stretches should all work in time providing the injury is tissue not bone.

Having enjoyed back pain for about 30 years, on and off, my experience as regards those practitioners who have helped is as follows:

1. NHS and sports physios - Zero benefit.

2. Top level consultant spinal surgeons. - Zero benefit.

3. Chiropractor - Zero benefit.

4. Professional sports massage (premiership football level practitioners) - Generally excellent results.

5. Stretches recommended by top level PTs - Good outcome for acute problems.

6. Osteopaths who practice massage in combination with osteopathy - The best outcome.

[Silverage]

Douglas Quaid said:

gweaver said:

I had very persistent mid back issues until I started doing deadlifts (properly). Technique is important, the weight isn't.

That was what I was going to suggest but for some reason it got ignored by the op. If you don’t have a strong core then your back will hurt. That’s life. Not too tough to strengthen it though.

Sorry, I’m not ignoring anyone and all comments are very much appreciated. There is a whole range of suggestions here though.

[smn159]

popeyewhite said:

sociopath said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Chiropractors and Osteopaths are various shades of alternative medicine woo.

Go to a physiotherapist instead.

Have to agree.

Physiotherapy is no panacea either. The efficacy of muscular massage in healing has never really been proven (although it helps nerve compression), and remember ultrasound? Complete bunk. The correct light exercise and light stretches should all work in time providing the injury is tissue not bone.

The benefit of seeing a good physio is accurate diagnosis and getting the right exercises to strengthen your core. Progress is then entirely dependent on you doing the exercises consistently, which I guess is why results vary...

[smashy]

3 very good physios diagnosed hip arthritis...they were well off.

[Evoluzione]

Louis Balfour said:

Having enjoyed back pain for about 30 years, on and off, my experience as regards those practitioners who have helped is as follows:

1. NHS and sports physios - Zero benefit.

2. Top level consultant spinal surgeons. - Zero benefit.

3. Chiropractor - Zero benefit.

4. Professional sports massage (premiership football level practitioners) - Generally excellent results.

5. Stretches recommended by top level PTs - Good outcome for acute problems.

6. Osteopaths who practice massage in combination with osteopathy - The best outcome.

No Pilates on your list unless one of the others overlaps into that territory?

[popeyewhite]

smn159 said:

The benefit of seeing a good physio is accurate diagnosis....

Truly accurate diagnosis can only be achieved with scans. The only way a physio knows if their treatment is working is if an individual reports ease of symptoms. Having seen any number of these people over the years (I work with Man City players etc), I think they get it right about 75% of the time.

[Louis Balfour]

Evoluzione said:

Louis Balfour said:

Having enjoyed back pain for about 30 years, on and off, my experience as regards those practitioners who have helped is as follows:

1. NHS and sports physios - Zero benefit.

2. Top level consultant spinal surgeons. - Zero benefit.

3. Chiropractor - Zero benefit.

4. Professional sports massage (premiership football level practitioners) - Generally excellent results.

5. Stretches recommended by top level PTs - Good outcome for acute problems.

6. Osteopaths who practice massage in combination with osteopathy - The best outcome.

No Pilates on your list unless one of the others overlaps into that territory?

Pilates was another “no benefit”. Though core stability did used to be a factor in my back pain, so perhaps if I had had better advice things may have been different.

I could also add to the list acupuncture, which has always worsened matters significantly and Alexander technique which was slightly useful, if not for the main problem.

[Evoluzione]

Louis Balfour said:

Evoluzione said:

Louis Balfour said:

Having enjoyed back pain for about 30 years, on and off, my experience as regards those practitioners who have helped is as follows:

1. NHS and sports physios - Zero benefit.

2. Top level consultant spinal surgeons. - Zero benefit.

3. Chiropractor - Zero benefit.

4. Professional sports massage (premiership football level practitioners) - Generally excellent results.

5. Stretches recommended by top level PTs - Good outcome for acute problems.

6. Osteopaths who practice massage in combination with osteopathy - The best outcome.

No Pilates on your list unless one of the others overlaps into that territory?

Pilates was another “no benefit”. Though core stability did used to be a factor in my back pain, so perhaps if I had had better advice things may have been different.

I could also add to the list acupuncture, which has always worsened matters significantly and Alexander technique which was slightly useful, if not for the main problem.

So what is the actual cause of the pain, is it known?

[popeyewhite]

Louis Balfour said:

I could also add to the list acupuncture...

Years ago I allowed a physio to experiment upon my back with acupuncture. Surprisingly painful! Unsurprisingly it did nothing whatsoever.

[Louis Balfour]

Evoluzione said:

Louis Balfour said:

Evoluzione said:

Louis Balfour said:

Having enjoyed back pain for about 30 years, on and off, my experience as regards those practitioners who have helped is as follows:

1. NHS and sports physios - Zero benefit.

2. Top level consultant spinal surgeons. - Zero benefit.

3. Chiropractor - Zero benefit.

4. Professional sports massage (premiership football level practitioners) - Generally excellent results.

5. Stretches recommended by top level PTs - Good outcome for acute problems.

6. Osteopaths who practice massage in combination with osteopathy - The best outcome.

No Pilates on your list unless one of the others overlaps into that territory?

Pilates was another “no benefit”. Though core stability did used to be a factor in my back pain, so perhaps if I had had better advice things may have been different.

I could also add to the list acupuncture, which has always worsened matters significantly and Alexander technique which was slightly useful, if not for the main problem.

So what is the actual cause of the pain, is it known?

It has changed. It used to be due to a muscular imbalance front to back. It caused mid thoracic pain. Latterly, I get lower back pain on the right caused by a tight QL, which might have its route cause in a cam lesion in my right hip.

[SlimJim16v]

Evoluzione said:

What is it out of interest? I'm told mine is Osteoarthritis, but i'm not so sure. It's always ached, but got bad after a couple of self inflicted 'events', so i'm on permanent painkillers for it as per an earlier poster.
J. W. has similar issues, you'll remember him? We meet up now and again.

Many years ago, we had a flat tyre on a Capri, but no jack. Two of us held it up, while the tyre was changed. I heard a snap, I'd partially torn one of the muscles that run along either side of the spine. It was aggravated years later helping an idiot lift something heavy at work.

I could manage it using stretching exercises. Osteopath and painkillers when it got bad.

More recently, I somehow damaged a disc. I couldn't do the stretching until recently, so this made it even worse. I was swallowing lots of painkillers, but cut them down, now only taking when really bad. Standing for a long time really aggravates it. I can see me needing a walking stick for support when going to see a band.

Yes, I remember James. What are the two of you driving now?