Lotus Evora crashed on M40 - owner on here?

Lotus Evora crashed on M40 - owner on here?

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Discussion

Boogs

224 posts

88 months

Tuesday 4th December 2018
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I hope those holding a Twitter debate were passengers rolleyes

CABC

2,662 posts

46 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
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i don't know about Evoras, but Elises normally wear semi-slick Yokos. awesome in the dry, but little ability to clear water.
Elises also 'chatter' away through the steering to let you know that their not happy on these tyres in water or cold conditions.

saaby93

25,904 posts

123 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Does make you wonder about cars with low polar moment of inertia frown

CTE

1,286 posts

185 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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I`ve been on road trips with my old S1 Evora (slightly softer suspension and damper settings than the 400 and P Zero`s or Corsa`s...whatever the standard fitment was) and it was always fantastic in all road conditions (other than ice obviously). I clearly remember in Wales going through standing water without any issues, whereas all around me (Porsche/Aston/BMW etc etc) were all struggling. Infact on a short piece of dual carriageway, 2x911`s went off in a spectacular style, as did an Aston somewhere else!! They swore they were not ragging it...

Sounds like the guy on the M40 did something very silly, or maybe as described had the cruise control on coupled with far too high a speed for the conditions??

saaby93

25,904 posts

123 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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CTE said:
Sounds like the guy on the M40 did something very silly, or maybe as described had the cruise control on coupled with far too high a speed for the conditions??
Trouble is you dont know youre doing too high a speed for your car or the conditions until it happens.
It doesnt need that much standing water for the tyres to float, expecially with a light back end RWD and especially with wide tyres
Saw some other GT coupe that had spun a few weeks ago on some thin standing water

Here's how to spin on a straight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCQYm0MDpxo



Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 6th December 09:45

plenty

2,699 posts

131 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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I was in a convoy in Wales following a 400 on an NSL road in very wet conditions. At about 55 mph going around a 30 degree left hander the 400 (which was close to brand new) aquaplaned, the rear end suddenly snapping round following which driver tried to correct. Cue inevitable tankslapper and car in ditch (subsequently written off), driver fortunately unharmed.

I was pretty shocked at how quickly and violently the rear let go, no doubt a function of the mid-engined layout and 275 rear tyres. When it happens there is zero chance of saving it.

Edited by plenty on Thursday 6th December 15:03

TroubledSoul

4,237 posts

139 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Very easy to be caught out in a mid engined car, even if you are used to them. The only car I've ever crashed was one of my MR2 turbos and it was my second I believe.

Mine was my own fault really as I'd bought it a couple of months beforehand and has been waiting for a decent set of aftermarket wheels to come up for sale. As such, I hadn't bothered replacing the Champiro Bax tyres that the car was wearing.

One wet day after a long period with no rain, it let go at relatively low speed and thus started the fight with what was effectively a mobile pendulum. I lost but was fortunately unharmed, despite the car flying off the road, hitting a tree head on in the process, spinning in mid air and landing at the bottom of an embankment.

Very lucky and not a mistake I have ever repeated.

p4cks

3,352 posts

144 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Unlikely to have the CC engaged as it's often fked on the Evora anyway.

Glad the driver is OK

blueg33

21,680 posts

169 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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p4cks said:
Unlikely to have the CC engaged as it's often fked on the Evora anyway.

Glad the driver is OK
I have done over 70k miles in Evoras, no issues ever with cruise, it always works fine.

hyphen

10,592 posts

35 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Two Evora's currently on eBay in need of some t-cut. Must be the season for it.

giveitfish

3,277 posts

159 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Hmmmm... well I’m planning on driving mine 1500 miles per month all winter so I’ll just have to be careful.

I’ve just put brand new winter tyres on it, but from what I’ve read it seems summer tyres are actually better at coping with standing water eek

The tyres are really wide on these cars. I’d imagine most other cars with similar width tyres and weight distribution would be strictly summer weekend cars, there’s only really the 911 that compares and would be used in all weathers?

Thorburn

2,308 posts

138 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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CABC said:
i don't know about Evoras, but Elises normally wear semi-slick Yokos. awesome in the dry, but little ability to clear water.
Not really. Later (Toyota) Elises typically run AD07 LTS tyres as standard, which are a road focused summer tyre.
The S2 Exige had A048s as standard fit which were a semi-slick.

Of course that isn't to say owners might not have changed them, but on the S2 Elise you'll need a wider front wheel to take the 195 or 205 wide tyres.

plenty said:
I was in a convoy in Wales following a 400 on an NSL road in very wet conditions. At about 55 mph going around a 30 degree left hander the 400 (which was close to brand new) aquaplaned, the rear end suddenly snapping round following which driver tried to correct. Cue inevitable tankslapper and car in ditch (subsequently written off), driver fortunately unharmed.

I was pretty shocked at how quickly and violently the rear let go, no doubt a function of the mid-engined layout and 275 rear tyres. When it happens there is zero chance of saving it.
Odd, I've driven mine in pretty atrocious conditions at the start of the year and it was very surefooted, but I do tend to be quite cautious of standing water. Generally it feels more front-end limited due to weight distribution, so perhaps the front slipped and they added lock, then gripped?

Rear tyres are 285/30R20 Michelin Pilot Sports, but it is a LOT more dependable than the V12 Vantage - that has 295 wide 19" Pirelli P-Zero Corsas and I won't take it out in cold, wet, conditions now. Drove that to a meet last December in the damp and 1c temperatures and it was squirming away with light throttle applications even with the traction/stability control in its most restrictive mode, felt like they were made of glass.

Edited by Thorburn on Friday 7th December 15:06

The Selfish Gene

5,090 posts

155 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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hyphen said:
kmpowell said:
Driving in the horrendous & torrential conditions up the M40 yesterday morning, I was passed by an Evora (who I must add, was not gunning it!), and off into the distance he steadily went. Then, about 100-200 yards ahead I saw him hit some standing water, the back-end immedatly broke loose ...
Why would this happen? confused

Motorways tend to be relatively straight so why would it immediately have issues (ebay chinese tyres of unknown standard aside).
how can you be confused about that. Aquaplaning is a very simple thing to understand.

I've had it happen to me several times in light cars, with fat tyres and heavy rain/standing water on various roads (and race tracks)

I've actually had it happen to me whilst doing the speed limit as a passenger in an Evora - the guy driving a very experienced pro driver and race driver and we nearly stacked it at around 60mph



Thorburn

2,308 posts

138 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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blueg33 said:
Aquaplaning. Maybe cruise control on. Cruise control is very dangerous if a driven wheel looses grip eg on standing water, it opens the throttle.
In theory the car should be able to see a difference in wheel speed front/rear and cut the throttle if this happens. Had it once on the M5 in a BMW M135i - cruise was on, hit a change in tarmac in wet conditions and it binged up that cruise control had been deactivated - presumably because it had detected a rear wheel beginning to spin up faster than the front wheels were travelling.

Edited by Thorburn on Friday 7th December 15:43

g7orge

144 posts

39 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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blueg33 said:
Aquaplaning. Maybe cruise control on. Cruise control is very dangerous if a driven wheel looses grip eg on standing water, it opens the throttle.
Didn't realise that happened - that's pause for thought...

Toaster

2,751 posts

138 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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g7orge said:
blueg33 said:
Aquaplaning. Maybe cruise control on. Cruise control is very dangerous if a driven wheel looses grip eg on standing water, it opens the throttle.
Didn't realise that happened - that's pause for thought...
With respect I think you will find that Cruise control cuts out when you loose traction its part of the system design, it doesn't open the throttle. When you change gear the engine doesn't rev mindlessly !

The car in question here may have aquaplaned but its unlikely the cruise control had anything to do with it.

How do I know this and so certain, my NA with Cruise control will cut out if traction is lost when hitting standing water. I think most cars will do the same and its part of the Bosch management system.

Toaster

2,751 posts

138 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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giveitfish said:
Hmmmm... well I’m planning on driving mine 1500 miles per month all winter so I’ll just have to be careful.

I’ve just put brand new winter tyres on it, but from what I’ve read it seems summer tyres are actually better at coping with standing water eek

The tyres are really wide on these cars. I’d imagine most other cars with similar width tyres and weight distribution would be strictly summer weekend cars, there’s only really the 911 that compares and would be used in all weathers?
You may want to treat yourself to this DVD https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotus-Evora-Making-Modern... it shows the testing of the Evora at the Bosch facilities along with traction and breaking in the snow. I think you will be more re-assured about driving in the winter .

another lotus training video but they probably;y don't do this Ice Attack course anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1wsofV1oIw

saaby93

25,904 posts

123 months

Friday 7th December 2018
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Toaster said:
You may want to treat yourself to this DVD https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotus-Evora-Making-Modern... it shows the testing of the Evora at the Bosch facilities along with traction and breaking in the snow. I think you will be more re-assured about driving in the winter .

another lotus training video but they probably;y don't do this Ice Attack course anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1wsofV1oIw
Oh well both those links were well worth looking at laugh

The issue is that when youre in track mode youre in an elevated state of driving
When youre driving up the motorway the last thing youre expecting is for the tail to jump out for no apparant reason ( if thats what happened)
and with low polar inertia it's gone before you realise you need to think in track mode
The elise video posted a page back shows even when youre in track mode if it's gone it's gone

However some of it might be due to the front end
Particularly on an elise it's relatively lightly loaded, the evora has wider tyres so may have thesame effect
One of the biggest issues is if a front wheel (or two ) stops rotating you can loose just about all steering control
If youre braking when it happens, you let go the brakes and try to get the wheel rotating again - but if it's sliding how do you do that?
If its not rotating because it's hit a lump of stationary water and youre not even braking what do you do to get the wheel rotating again so you can steer?
FWD has a lot of benefits at times

Toaster

2,751 posts

138 months

Saturday 8th December 2018
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saaby93 said:
Oh well both those links were well worth looking at laugh

The issue is that when youre in track mode youre in an elevated state of driving
When youre driving up the motorway the last thing youre expecting is for the tail to jump out for no apparant reason ( if thats what happened)
and with low polar inertia it's gone before you realise you need to think in track mode
The elise video posted a page back shows even when youre in track mode if it's gone it's gone

However some of it might be due to the front end
Particularly on an elise it's relatively lightly loaded, the evora has wider tyres so may have thesame effect
One of the biggest issues is if a front wheel (or two ) stops rotating you can loose just about all steering control
If youre braking when it happens, you let go the brakes and try to get the wheel rotating again - but if it's sliding how do you do that?
If its not rotating because it's hit a lump of stationary water and youre not even braking what do you do to get the wheel rotating again so you can steer?
FWD has a lot of benefits at times
you may laugh but if you want to have an overview of what went on in development, the Video is worth a viewing, if your driving in poor weather your alertness 'should' be more heightened but whatever, I am not saying the car didn't aquaplane I am saying the Cruise control cuts out when traction is lost. Having owned a track car for many years I totally get the point about how the tail can just jump out (its never for no apparent reason).

Go drive an Elise in the wet then jump into an Evora and you will immediately know just how much more its planted an Evora feels. Of course it can still aquaplane but my point is the cruise control will have cut out, if you don't believe me go and jump in an Evora select cruise and drive through a big puddle.

saaby93

25,904 posts

123 months

Saturday 8th December 2018
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Toaster said:
you may laugh but if you want to have an overview of what went on in development, the Video is worth a viewing, if your driving in poor weather your alertness 'should' be more heightened but whatever, I am not saying the car didn't aquaplane I am saying the Cruise control cuts out when traction is lost. Having owned a track car for many years I totally get the point about how the tail can just jump out (its never for no apparent reason).

Go drive an Elise in the wet then jump into an Evora and you will immediately know just how much more its planted an Evora feels. Of course it can still aquaplane but my point is the cruise control will have cut out, if you don't believe me go and jump in an Evora select cruise and drive through a big puddle.
As proved by the guy subject of the opening post?
BTW lets not say it's only Evora, I posted earlier about other GTs that can spin on aquaplane